Draisaitl @ 8.5/8yrs vrs Matthews @ 11.63/5yrs

[TheNuge]

As a huge Backstrom fan myself, his contract was signed so long ago it can't even be compared. Also, Draisaitl and Matthews have yet to hit their peak years, whereas Backstrom has.

My point was Backstrom @11% of the team cap back in 2010 vs Matthews @14% team cap which translates to roughly 2.5m in cap space difference in the current cap year.

 

[joe dirte]

1) No, he hasnt, you're outright lying.

Well yes he has. you asked if he has scored 70 points. he has almost 200.

2) Haha absolutely not. McDavid gets paid less than a million more, has 3 more years on his contract, and is twice the player. Look at the Eichel contract as well. Anyone other than the most homer of leaf fans (you included) recognizes the leafs got taken to the cleaners with this one.

Well that's your opinion. You asked mine, on whether it's a steal, and i said no.

3a) Apparently, you're illiterate as well. The word "pace" is right there and it's not like 55+ games is a tiny sample size.
3b) 381 minutes without McDavid/953 total minutes (x100)=40% so I actually my point is even stronger than I thought when I predicted 35% (mental math). Its basic division and multiplication, I'm glad you're learning at least.

well, if you're question is whether or not McDavid turns players into 100 point PACE players, it's a silly question, because over some sample, most players have turned others into 200, or even 300 point players. But it doesn't really matter in that context, does it?

And please refrain from using personal insults, it's really not necessary.

4) Funny sounds to me like you're incapable of doing it. So Nylander's 10 points=Draisaitl's 66? Man now that is a STRETCH. You really need to retake kindergarten math.

Isn't the context of this, what Draisaitl produces WITHOUT McDavid? So what does Draisaitl's 66 points, which are overwhelmingly fed to him, relevant?

I was pointing out that Nylander's points per 60 this year, is almost identical to Draisaitl's when he isn't playing with McDavid. As I pointed out "Draisaitl without McDavid is roughly equivalent to Nylander at his worst!!!"

5) So now Kadri AND Nylander (!!!) are both better than Draisaitl, I just find it odd that 99% of hockey fans would disagree with you on this, but sure believe what you want.

Is that your interpretation of the data I've presented? It's good that you're able to come to reasonable conclusions though.

If you read all my posts, you'd see that I said I would take Matthews over Draisaitl for the next 5 years, so its not like I'm a brain dead leaf hater, who goes against them 100% of the time. I can look at the topic objectively, and recognize when my guy is beaten. I can respect Matthews, and anyone who'd take him over Draisaitl.

Okay, so you're not a Leaf hater then?

It is unfortunate that the most naive are often the loudest.
You're the class of poster that gives the other 90% of reasonable leaf fans a bad reputation.

Do the loudest include posters that write diatribes full of 6 part questions?

 

[LeafsNation75]

The contract is the difference maker here for Draisaitl.

Draisaitl is signed to 2024-25 @ 8.5M at 3.134M per year less than Matthews.
Matthews till 2023-24 @ 11.634M more money and his contract ends a year earlier.

Draisaitl, 32 goals, 34 assists, 66 pts. 55 games.
Matthews, 24 goals, 23 assists, 47 pts, 41 games.

I see you are not taking into account the 14 games Matthews missed this season when he was injured, because if it was not for that his stats would be just as good or better than Draisaitl.

 

[joe dirte]

I don't disagree. This poster is very immature (probably very young), doesn't hurt to push his buttons with the arbitrary 70 points thing.

Kadri is a damn good 2C imo

Coincidentally, a position Draisaitl has never actually been successful in.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Well yes he has. you asked if he has scored 70 points. he has almost 200.


Well that's your opinion. You asked mine, on whether it's a steal, and i said no.



well, if you're question is whether or not McDavid turns players into 100 point PACE players, it's a silly question, because over some sample, most players have turned others into 200, or even 300 point players. But it doesn't really matter in that context, does it?

And please refrain from using personal insults, it's really not necessary.



Isn't the context of this, what Draisaitl produces WITHOUT McDavid? So what does Draisaitl's 66 points, which are overwhelmingly fed to him, relevant?

I was pointing out that Nylander's points per 60 this year, is almost identical to Draisaitl's when he isn't playing with McDavid. As I pointed out "Draisaitl without McDavid is roughly equivalent to Nylander at his worst!!!"



Is that your interpretation of the data I've presented? It's good that you're able to come to reasonable conclusions though.



Okay, so you're not a Leaf hater then?



Do the loudest include posters that write diatribes full of 6 part questions?

1) Mature.
2) I'm talking about per season obviously. I can't even tell what you're trying to get at? It is necessary when basic arithmetic is out of the realm of understanding.
3) It so absurd that none of Draisaitl's points count since McDavid was on the ice, that I will go insane if I have to talk about it again.
4) What happened to personal insults being unnecessary? Your recommendations are worthless if you can't follow them yourself.
5) No, I have several players on my fantasy team who I root to do well. I do strongly dislike fans like yourself who make these boards toxic.
6) My original questions were very short, you're the one that broken them up and made it very long. And yes, you're the loudest, everyone on this board must be told how Draisaitl would be on waivers if it wasn't for McDavid.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Coincidentally, a position Draisaitl has never actually been successful in.

Just drop it

 

[ThePhoenixx]

The premise of this thread is a bit disingenuous. Draisaitl signed his contract at 11.33% of the cap, or 9.4 mill assuming a cap of 83 million next season.

So it is 9.4 vs. 11.6. Still a sizeable gap for Matthews, but closer.

Matthews is also a 1C and is not riding McDavid's coattails. He is the primary threat on his team not secondary. He is 2 years younger, the better goal scorer (among the best in the league), and has the better career P/GP, albeit more fragile.

This should be Matthews easily.

Yeah. I could have worded it differently. Start adjusting the contracts.

The contract is the contract though. I'm hoping that people who voted in the poll have some knowledge of when the contracts were signed. No need to assume that people who voted are dumb. Especially when you are assuming that it is only the people who voted for Draisaitl who are dumb...or ignorant. I guess that is your choice.

However, if we ignore the first two years of Draisaitls' contract, and only count the current six, then perhaps the fact that year six for Matthews could be 16-20 million due to cap inflation must also enter in to the discussion as to amounts paid over the years. You know, in case posters 'forgot' that.

I think people can decide for themselves.

 

[joe dirte]

1) Mature.

I'm answering your question.

2) I'm talking about per season obviously. I can't even tell what you're trying to get at? It is necessary when basic arithmetic is out of the realm of understanding.

Yes, I can tell you have issues with arithmetic. But I'm trying to make things clear for you.

3) It so absurd that none of Draisaitl's points count since McDavid was on the ice, that I will go insane if I have to talk about it again.

In the context of determining what Draisaitl can provide without McDavid, it's absurd you think it should count in that context.

4) What happened to personal insults being unnecessary? Your recommendations are worthless if you can't follow them yourself.

I don't believe I have insulted you.

5) No, I have several players on my fantasy team who I root to do well. I do strongly dislike fans like yourself who make these boards toxic.

I thought it would be name calling and insults that would be toxic. Which you've resorted to often.

6) My original questions were very short, you're the one that broken them up and made it very long. And yes, you're the loudest, everyone on this board must be told how Draisaitl would be on waivers if it wasn't for McDavid.

and i kindly answered those questions.

I've never mentioned waivers, just provided stats and facts. The stats and facts seem to have gotten you visibly triggered. I've just asked you to provide relevant stats and facts in return, but you've declined.

 

[tony d]

I went with Drai.

 

[McShogun99]

I voted Draisaitl. Matthews is the better player and goal scorer while Draisaitl is the better playmaker. The question s based on contract amount and length which is why I picked Draisaitl since both players offer similar production. If Matthews was healthy for a full season you're paying 3.1 million more for similar point production with Matthews scoring 10-15 more goals then Draisaitl. Also, when Matthews contract runs out Draisaitl will still have a year left on his. Now if it was just player vrs player with no contracts involved then it's Matthews easily for Edmonton. He'd be a perfect fit in Edmonton.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I voted Draisaitl. Matthews is the better player and goal scorer while Draisaitl is the better playmaker. The question s based on contract amount and length which is why I picked Draisaitl since both players offer similar production. If Matthews was healthy for a full season you're paying 3.1 million more for similar point production with Matthews scoring 10-15 more goals then Draisaitl. Also, when Matthews contract runs out Draisaitl will still have a year left on his. Now if it was just player vrs player with no contracts involved then it's Matthews easily for Edmonton. He'd be a perfect fit in Edmonton.

Matthews has played a full 82 games in his rookie season and when that happened he scored a total of 40 goals.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I see you are not taking into account the 14 games Matthews missed this season when he was injured, because if it was not for that his stats would be just as good or better than Draisaitl.

Do you not see the games played in the post? Being more injury prone is not a good selling point. They pay you per season not games played do they not? Are you saying Draisaitl has even more value being he has missed only 4 games the last 3 seasons? You are bouncing back to the what if argument, what if, what if...

 

[bring back the jets]

Its close but I'd take Draisaitl

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Lol @joe dirte asking for numbers.

Numbers were provided in other draisaitl threads. You just keep choosing to ignore them or move goal posts. No wonder nobody puts any effort in responding.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Do you not see the games played in the post? Being more injury prone is not a good selling point. They pay you per season not games played do they not? Are you saying Draisaitl has even more value being he has missed only 4 games the last 3 seasons? You are bouncing back to the what if argument, what if, what if...

Funny the injury argument and games missed is what others said about Patrik Laine during his rookie season and no one had a problem using it, however when the same argument is said about Matthews according to you it can not be used.

 

[joe dirte]

Lol @joe dirte asking for numbers.

Numbers were provided in other draisaitl threads. You just keep choosing to ignore them or move goal posts. No wonder nobody puts any effort in responding.

And they've been provided to show how little he produces without McDavid (currently 1.73 points per 60, worse than 200th in the league), how horribly the team gets caved in with him on the ice without McD (yes, possession, scoring chances, and high danger scoring chance numbers, all get worse with him on the ice without McD), but you just choose to ignore them.

 

[BigTruzz]

Draisaitl.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Funny the injury argument and games missed is what others said about Patrik Laine during his rookie season and no one had a problem using it, however when the same argument is said about Matthews according to you it can not be used.

It's funny you brought injuries up in a player to player comparison of Draisaitl and Matthews, but you try to change the topic to Laine. Your arguments almost always make no sense as do your dodging responses.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It's funny you brought injuries up in a player to player comparison of Draisaitl and Matthews, but you try to change the topic to Laine. Your arguments almost always make no sense as do your dodging responses.

Look no one is doubting that right now Draisaitl has more points than Matthews so far this season. However it's a fact that the games Matthews missed is a reason for that. So it does not mean Draisaitl is better than him no matter what their contracts look like.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I see you are not taking into account the 14 games Matthews missed this season when he was injured, because if it was not for that his stats would be just as good or better than Draisaitl.

Does that actually do much to help Matthews tho?

He puts up similar #'s to draisaitl, who is on a terrible terrible team.... and Matthews is on a very good offensive team.

The question is who do you choose... the answer is pretty easily drai at 8.5

 

[Connor McConnor]

And they've been provided to show how little he produces without McDavid (currently 1.73 points per 60, worse than 200th in the league), how horribly the team gets caved in with him on the ice without McD (yes, possession, scoring chances, and high danger scoring chance numbers, all get worse with him on the ice without McD), but you just choose to ignore them.

Do you know how bad you sound right now? "His advanced stats all get worse when he no longer plays with the best player in the league and his linemates are AHL Caliber Lucic, Poolparty, Reider, and Chiasson"

There are a lot of elite players in this league that would not be able to produce with the players Drai has to play with on a regular basis. When Drai isn't on the first line Mcdavid gets RNH. We only have 3 good forwards. If you want to blame management go ahead and join the chorus but I know you don't actually watch Drai play at all and just like to come up with this garbage banter of how he's a bad player without McDavid which is just completely false. He's dominated at every level including carrying Team Germany on international levels.

 

[joe dirte]

Do you know how bad you sound right now? "His advanced stats all get worse when he no longer plays with the best player in the league and his linemates are AHL Caliber Lucic, Poolparty, Reider, and Chiasson"

There are a lot of elite players in this league that would not be able to produce with the players Drai has to play with on a regular basis. When Drai isn't on the first line Mcdavid gets RNH. We only have 3 good forwards. If you want to blame management go ahead and join the chorus but I know you don't actually watch Drai play at all and just like to come up with this garbage banter of how he's a bad player without McDavid which is just completely false. He's dominated at every level including carrying Team Germany on international levels.

I think youre missing the point.

Its not that his advanced stats get worse. Its that they actually get worse than the rest of the team. Most other players on the team struggle worse with him than they do without him. In other words, if hes not paired with mcdavid, the oilers are better off NOT playing him at all. Because the players he plays with when hes on the second line, are better without him.

He drags the rest of the team down when hes not paired with mcdavid.

Oilers fans constantly talk about "of course he cant produce without mcdavid the rest of the team is terrible". But hes actually the one that statistically drags them down, not the reverse.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Does that actually do much to help Matthews tho?

He puts up similar #'s to draisaitl, who is on a terrible terrible team.... and Matthews is on a very good offensive team.

The question is who do you choose... the answer is pretty easily drai at 8.5

Again, Matthews is putting up 30% better production at the same point in his development path and doing it with far inferior linemates.

I don't get how people can talk about Drai being on a terrible team (ignoring that almost 2/3 of his minutes are with McDavid) and then turn around and talk about the offensive machine Matthews plays on while also ignoring that he rarely plays with any of the big guns? Again, his most common linemates this year are Kapanen and Johnsson. In previous years it was Hyman, Brown and Nylander.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I don't know what "oompared" means so I can't answer your post

I would say your answer already provided all the answer we need.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Before this past season, Matthews got to play with Nylander, a top ten pick, then Marner, a top 5 pick , on the PP.

Draisaitl plays with Lucic and Reider

Hey guys! Did you know playing with Nylander is equal to playing almost 67% of the time with McDavid? Now I'm starting to think Nylander has the best contract in the NHL. Oh and playing 0.47% of your ice time on the PP with Marner is also up there with playing almost 67% of the time with McDavid!

Jeebus! I shudder to think what kind of contract THAT guy gets!!!