Draft Question

[Staal Me Up]

Is this draft deep? Thin on talent?

What is the deepest postion in the draft

Thanks for answering my question!

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[Epsilon]

Is this draft deep? Thin on talent?

What is the deepest postion in the draft

Thanks for answering my question!

The draft is fairly deep, but with good players, not franchise player-types.

 

[Slats432]

The draft is fairly deep, but with good players, not franchise player-types.

It is also another good goaltender draft.

Vincent
Levasseur
Price
Rask
Pavelec
Quick
Frazee

 

[Le Golie]

It is also another good goaltender draft.

Vincent
Levasseur
Price
Rask
Pavelec
Quick
Frazee

I wouldn't say it is a 'good' goalie draft. Realistically I would be surprized if anyone from this crop turns into a franchise goalie, which most of the recent drafts have produced. To be honest, there are only four goalies (Price, Rask, Plante, Pavelec) that I see having starter potential, but none appear bound for stardom from what I have seen.

Despite what many people think about Rask, to me this draft lacks a top notch goalie.

 

[Rich09]

I think that the top 6 could be franchise players.. Crosby, Brule, Johnson, Kopitar, Ryan, Pouliot..

 

[Til the End of Time]

I think it's a fairly ordinary draft after Crosby.

Not particularly deep.

 

[mercury]

I think it's a fairly ordinary draft after Crosby.

Not particularly deep.

Somewhat agreed. Generational #1, excellent talents from #2-6, maybe #2-8. Dropoff after that. However, astute picks in the 2nd and 3rd round will probably net very solid guys. As always, some good ones will fall for whatever reason, and some guys' stocks will rise. Average draft over all, weighted heavily towards the top handful.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

... so far it is pretty deep on controversy and arguments.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I wouldn't say it is a 'good' goalie draft. Realistically I would be surprized if anyone from this crop turns into a franchise goalie, which most of the recent drafts have produced. To be honest, there are only four goalies (Price, Rask, Plante, Pavelec) that I see having starter potential, but none appear bound for stardom from what I have seen.

Despite what many people think about Rask, to me this draft lacks a top notch goalie.

Frazee continues to get the shaft. He at least deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as the four you mentioned. He's outperformed at least two of them in head-to-head competion (Price and Pavelec at the U18s) and had a very solid year for the U.S. U18 team heading into play for Minnesota this upcoming college hockey season.

 

[Le Golie]

Frazee continues to get the shaft. He at least deserves to be mentioned in the same breath at the four you mentioned. He's outperformed at least two of them in head-to-head competion (Price and Pavelec at the U18s) and had a very solid year for the U.S. U18 team heading into play for Minnesota this upcoming college hockey season.

I excluded him for a reason, the same reason he is 'getting the shaft' as you put it, by scouts. I'm not sold on his chances of becomming a successful NHL'er. His size is not great and I don't like his erratic style. He overplays a lot of shots and while that is correctable, it's a bad habit and often a symptom of a bigger problem - mental focus. I didn't exlude him because I forgot about him, I just don't see the same potential in him as the four I mentioned.

He did outperform Price at the U18's, Price had a weak tournament. He did not outperform Pavelec, who was outstanding and gave his team a chance to win the tournament. Pavelec won the best goalie award and he deserved it.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Frazee continues to get the shaft. He at least deserves to be mentioned in the same breath at the four you mentioned. He's outperformed at least two of them in head-to-head competion (Price and Pavelec at the U18s) and had a very solid year for the U.S. U18 team heading into play for Minnesota this upcoming college hockey season.

I dont think so. Dont get me wrong from what I saw of Frazee at the U18 championship he looked very good but I would like to see him play 60 games in the CHL to judge if he is a as good as some seem to think. My personal thought is alot of people put players that are on the NTDP program and then proclaim them as the next "Insert super star name here".

I would love to see guys like Johnson,Stoa,Skille,Kessel and Company play in the CHL especially considering that these guys are going to be Stud prospects

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I dont think so. Dont get me wrong from what I saw of Frazee at the U18 championship he looked very good but I would like to see him play 60 games in the CHL to judge if he is a as good as some seem to think. My personal thought is alot of people put players that are on the NTDP program and then proclaim them as the next "Insert super star name here".

I would love to see guys like Johnson,Stoa,Skille,Kessel and Company play in the CHL especially considering that these guys are going to be Stud prospects

I never said Frazee would be a superstar. I think he's a good goaltender that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as the other top goaltenders in this draft. He's proven that in the competition he has participated in. Just because it wasn't the CHL shouldn't undermine that.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

There are only 3 superstar calibre players in this draft and they are Crosby, Brule, and Johnson.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I excluded him for a reason, the same reason he is 'getting the shaft' as you put it, by scouts. I'm not sold on his chances of becomming a successful NHL'er. His size is not great and I don't like his erratic style. He overplays a lot of shots and while that is correctable, it's a bad habit and often a symptom of a bigger problem - mental focus. I didn't exlude him because I forgot about him, I just don't see the same potential in him as the four I mentioned.

He did outperform Price at the U18's, Price had a weak tournament. He did not outperform Pavelec, who was outstanding and gave his team a chance to win the tournament. Pavelec won the best goalie award and he deserved it.

What do you mean he didn't outperform Pavelec? Frazee was superior in every statistical category (they faced roughly the same amount of shots) and beat him in direct competition. As for size, Frazee is listed as 6' 181 lbs, while Pavelec is listed as 6' 170 lbs. Is size an issue for Pavelec as well?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

There are only 3 superstar calibre players in this draft and they are Crosby, Brule, and Johnson.

Just as a lark, what makes Brule a superstar player?

 

[Eb0la11]

Yeah I dont understand how Brule is so highly touted. He is pretty small, I mean I know hes a good hockey player and knows how to take care of himself in regards to him being able to play physical while having a good skillset, but the times I saw him play he was floating quite a bit. Im still not sold on him being above Pouliot in the draft. Does anyone have any videos of him on the internet?

 

[ahmon]

imo this draft is relatively thin after 1st couple picks, picking 10 or 30 might be closer in value than other years..

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Just as a lark, what makes Brule a superstar player?

Well how many times have you seen him play? He was better at age 15 than Scott Gomez was at 18.

 

[Le Golie]

What do you mean he didn't outperform Pavelec? Frazee was superior in every statistical category (they faced roughly the same amount of shots) and beat him in direct competition. As for size, Frazee is listed as 6' 181 lbs, while Pavelec is listed as 6' 170 lbs. Is size an issue for Pavelec as well?

He didn't outperform Pavelic - it's as simple as that. The stats don't always tell the story. Pavelic played on a poor team compared to the US. Frazee played on a team loaded with talent. On an individual basis, in terms of making stops he shouldn't make and keeping his team in games they didn't deserve to be in, Pavelic clearly outperformed Frazee. I take it you didn't see many of the games?

And as for the size issue, I do have some concerns with Pavelic's size too but he doesn't try to do too much, which tends to be the downfall of a lot of smallish goalies.

Look, just because Frazee is an American prospect doesn't mean everyone is out to get him. He's just not that good. And his ranking shows a lot of scouts share that opinion.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Yeah I dont understand how Brule is so highly touted. He is pretty small, I mean I know hes a good hockey player and knows how to take care of himself in regards to him being able to play physical while having a good skillset, but the times I saw him play he was floating quite a bit. Im still not sold on him being above Pouliot in the draft. Does anyone have any videos of him on the internet?

Pouliot is hardly a benchmark. He's ranked #8 by Redline. Not to mention a lot of folks around here (notably Gagneownsyou) who follow the OHL religiously prefer Bobby Ryan to Pouliot - which I do as well. I mean really what besides reminding a few people of Lecavalier has Pouliot done? For starters he's an 86, so he's older than the rest of the draft crop. I dont buy it that he has the second highest ceiling of the draft.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Well how many times have you seen him play? He was better at age 15 than Scott Gomez was at 18.

I've seen Brule in action a couple of times. From my viewings and what I know of him, he appears to be a very skilled, determined hockey player. Does that make him a superstar in the making? I don't know. I would say he has some things going against him that could possibly prevent that from happening. As for Scott Gomez, why are you bringing his name into this? Brule is obviously more highly touted than Gomez was, but let's wait and see if Brule can have the impact Gomez has had at the NHL level before anointing Brule the superior player.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He didn't outperform Pavelic - it's as simple as that. The stats don't always tell the story. Pavelic played on a poor team compared to the US. Frazee played on a team loaded with talent. On an individual basis, in terms of making stops he shouldn't make and keeping his team in games they didn't deserve to be in, Pavelic clearly outperformed Frazee. I take it you didn't see many of the games?

And as for the size issue, I do have some concerns with Pavelic's size too but he doesn't try to do too much, which tends to be the downfall of a lot of smallish goalies.

Look, just because Frazee is an American prospect doesn't mean everyone is out to get him. He's just not that good. And his ranking shows a lot of scouts share that opinion.

What do you mean it's as simple as that? The Czechs had a good team this year and were playing in front of their home fans. Like I said, Pavelec and Frazee faced the same amount of shots, so there is a frame of reference there. It's not like the U.S. blew out the Czechs either when they faced them. The score ended up being 4-3 in favor of the U.S. with the shots very close. Frazee made the saves he needed to, not only to win that game but win the tournament, especially in the gold medal game when the U.S. was outshot by a fair margin by Canada.

I recognize Frazee's "low" draft ranking by the CSB (8th), but are their rankings to be taken as the gospel? I don't think so. Granted, Pavelec is ranked 2nd among Euro goalies (behind Rask) but who's behind him? Nobody. I'd hope he would be ranked that high!

 

[Le Golie]

What do you mean it's as simple as that? The Czechs had a good team this year and were playing in front of their home fans. Like I said, Pavelec and Frazee faced the same amount of shots, so there is a frame of reference there. It's not like the U.S. blew out the Czechs either when they faced them. The score ended up being 4-3 in favor of the U.S. with the shots very close. Frazee made the saves he needed to, not only to win that game but win the tournament, especially in the gold medal game when the U.S. was outshot by a fair margin by Canada.

I recognize Frazee's "low" draft ranking by the CSB (8th), but are their rankings to be taken as the gospel? I don't think so. Granted, Pavelec is ranked 2nd among Euro goalies (behind Rask) but who's behind him? Nobody. I'd hope he would be ranked that high!

I must have watched more of this tournament than you. And in my opinion Pavelec was the best goaltender at the tournament. Frazee had a good tournament, but on an individual basis he certainly did not outperform Pavelec. You can dig up all the comparable stats you want but when you are looking at box scores and not real hockey, don't expect your diagnosis to be accurate.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Pouliot is hardly a benchmark. He's ranked #8 by Redline. Not to mention a lot of folks around here (notably Gagneownsyou) who follow the OHL religiously prefer Bobby Ryan to Pouliot - which I do as well.

People who have a tendency to be nearsighted and narrowminded are hardly "folks" to go by. One guy does not make a lot to say Pouliot is less preferred. I'm convinced those people would go as far as saying something ridiculous like Ryan is a better skater than Pouliot.

I mean really what besides reminding a few people of Lecavalier has Pouliot done? .

And that's a bad thing?? Where there's smoke there's fire. If Pouliot shows glimpses of becoming a Vinny LeCav, then a team in the top three is going to gamble on that potential.

For starters he's an 86, so he's older than the rest of the draft crop. I dont buy it that he has the second highest ceiling of the draft.

Didn't hurt Ovechkin did it? Of course, Ovechkin is a greater talent than Pouliot and that is a fact. But it IS relevant to WSH taking Ovechkin over a Malkin who was almost a year younger. If age was really a factor, WSH would have taken Malkin who was almost on Ovech's level talent wise. So, unless Pouliot(or anyone else) is an '85 you can stop trying to use that one b/c really he is about 3 months older than a guy like Brule who was one day away from being an '86 himself.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I never said Frazee would be a superstar. I think he's a good goaltender that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as the other top goaltenders in this draft. He's proven that in the competition he has participated in. Just because it wasn't the CHL shouldn't undermine that.

I think if you look at past goalie prospects that had huge reps like Rick Dipetro and Al Montoya they didnt live up to it at first. Dipetro seems to be becoming the goalie everyone thought he would become and the book is still out on Montoya. I think rushing goalies and expecting to much out of them is not a good thing. Goalies IMO take the longest to develop and should be given time to become the type of player they were expected to become.

Dont get me wrong I like Frazee I think he will develop into a top notch goalie But I dont think ANY goalie should be drafted in the first round.