draft lottery proposal by Gary B

[DARKSIDE]

Is this idea only regarding the number one pick, or draft positioning for the entire first round?

 

[Mess]

That's actually how I read it. All teams would start with one ball (ouch) and then a ball would be added for each year you missed the playoffs in the past three. So Toronto would get one ball, Tampa would get two, Calgary would get three and the Rangers would get four. I think it is more than fair IMO and should make everyone happy.

From the Article

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/Sports/2005/05/18/1044803-sun.html

With the IIHF World Championships over, hockey is over for NHL players this year. Next up, before they play again, is the draft. If the NHL people are right, they're going to play bingo.
NHL hockey people here are convinced Bettman will convince the board of governors to adopt a system for the draft that will be based on how teams finished over the course of the last three years.

The concept features a relatively simple system involving bingo balls and whether or not your team has been making or missing the playoffs lately.

If you've missed the playoffs three times in the last three years, you get three balls in the bingo machine. That's Columbus, Buffalo, Atlanta, Florida, Pittsburgh and the New York Rangers.
TWO BALLS

If you've missed the playoffs twice, you get two balls. That's Edmonton, Calgary, Carolina, Chicago, Nashville, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Washington, Minnesota and Anaheim.

Everybody else gets one ball.

Total: 52 balls. Your number rolls out first and ... BINGO! Crosby is yours.

Do people even read the articles or is it just the comprehension part that does posters in ??

 

[Jaded-Fan]

From the Article

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/EdmontonSun/Sports/2005/05/18/1044803-sun.html

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Do people even read the articles or is it just the comprehension part that does posters in ??

As I said above, if the article has some basis, it is unclear if that is what the NHL officials who are saying this have actually said, or the interpretation of the concept by the writer of the article in a different way than some of those above have interpreted the concept. But you are right, also as I pointed out above, that is not how the article details the proposal.

 

[WC Handy*]

DISCLAIMER: 'My Team' made it the playoffs the last 3 years.

I hate the idea. The elite teams in the league should have no shot at Crosby. At best, it should be reserved for the 10 teams that averaged the fewest points over the last 5 years.

 

[Mess]

As I said above, if the article has some basis, it is unclear if that is what the NHL officials who are saying this have actually said, or the interpretation of the concept by the writer of the article in a different way than some of those above have interpreted the concept. But you are right, also as I pointed out above, that is not how the article details the proposal.

Are you still fighting this as well, questioning the credibility ??

Its a weighted lottery and you have been pushing that concept for months based on the biggest losers, and as a result your Pens are among the teams with the best odds ..

Bettman is a simple man and needs a simple system.

Now what's the problem ??

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Are you still fighting this as well, questioning the credibility ??

Its a weighted lottery and you have been pushing that concept from months based on the biggest losers, and as a result your Pens are among the teams with the best odds ..

Bettman is a simple man and needs a simple system.

Now what's the problem ??

I have questioned the credibility of every article since those 'deal is imminent' articles just before the season was cancelled. I will take everything with a grain of salt until I see Bettman up there announcing it and even then will have a small doubt. Don't you?

And no, I do not like a system that is weighted for the entire draft in this way, if it is just for Crosby, fine, but it makes it very likely that not one but several of the have nots of the league talent wise will end up picking near the bottom, and not one but several loaded teams will pick near the top. Why would I be happy about that?

 

[SENSible1*]

Bettman is a simple man and needs a simple system.

Bettman would chew you up and spit you out in less time than it takes you to post one off your illogical rants.

Intellectually speaking, you couldn't even hold his clipboard.

 

[CGG]

DISCLAIMER: 'My Team' made it the playoffs the last 3 years.

I hate the idea. The elite teams in the league should have no shot at Crosby. At best, it should be reserved for the 10 teams that averaged the fewest points over the last 5 years.

Problem is, no one knows who the elite teams are. Formerly elite teams will be gutted with UFA's and a salary cap, plus retirements. Nobody knows if Colorado, Detroit, and especially Toronto will still be good when the league starts up again.

Why should the worst 10 teams get a chance but the 11th worst team get zero chance? IMO, you can't cut it off at any point. Every team should have some chance at getting Crosby, even if the chance is lowered by how good you've been. It's only fair.

 

[SENSible1*]

The system, if the description is accurate, looks like a reasonable compromise.

 

[WC Handy*]

Bettman is a simple man and needs a simple system.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say stuff like this? Despite your opinion of the man, his IQ is probably twice the average IQ on this board. This 'simple man' has an undergrad in labor relations and a law degree from 'New York University'. He has worked for both the NBA and the NHL is high level positions. Boy, I sure wish I was as simple of a man as Gary Bettman.

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Is this idea only regarding the number one pick, or draft positioning for the entire first round?

From what I recall reading (not this article) the draft will be decided by the lottery with an inverted even round (teams pick 1 through 30, then 30 through 1). Of course that may change based on the Canoe article, which flies in the face of others that have outlined the potential for a draft. Personally I think the Canoe writer might be a little confused as the article does fly into the face of reason. If they are using three years of reference for missing the playoffs why only award two balls? Doesn't make sense. If you're using three years, award a ball for each year a team misses. I think the author likely got all the concept correct, just never ran the equation to make sure it was going to work.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Problem is, no one knows who the elite teams are. Formerly elite teams will be gutted with UFA's and a salary cap, plus retirements. Nobody knows if Colorado, Detroit, and especially Toronto will still be good when the league starts up again.

Why should the worst 10 teams get a chance but the 11th worst team get zero chance? IMO, you can't cut it off at any point. Every team should have some chance at getting Crosby, even if the chance is lowered by how good you've been. It's only fair.

Name me 3 teams that are likely to even lose 2 players under the various proposed systems, especially with a 24% rollback. I love seeing some posters, and this is not aimed at you but what I have seen generally, argue in posts like this how gutted their team is going to be and then in other threads argue how their teams not only will not be gutted but talking about which star players they will be adding to already loaded teams. The hypocracy of holding those two thoughts in one head boggles my mind.

 

[WC Handy*]

Problem is, no one knows who the elite teams are. Formerly elite teams will be gutted with UFA's and a salary cap, plus retirements. Nobody knows if Colorado, Detroit, and especially Toronto will still be good when the league starts up again.

The draft has never been determined by how good a team will be next year.

Why should the worst 10 teams get a chance but the 11th worst team get zero chance? IMO, you can't cut it off at any point. Every team should have some chance at getting Crosby, even if the chance is lowered by how good you've been. It's only fair.

Every team should not get a chance at Crosby and anyone who thinks so only does for selfish reasons.

 

[Montrealer]

Bettman is a simple man and needs a simple system.

Now what's the problem ??

Ok, Einstein, let's hear your suggeston.

 

[Johnny On the Spot]

It seems fair but I would still like to see a snaked draft.

 

[Chaos]

Problem is, no one knows who the elite teams are. Formerly elite teams will be gutted with UFA's and a salary cap, plus retirements. Nobody knows if Colorado, Detroit, and especially Toronto will still be good when the league starts up again.

Why should the worst 10 teams get a chance but the 11th worst team get zero chance? IMO, you can't cut it off at any point. Every team should have some chance at getting Crosby, even if the chance is lowered by how good you've been. It's only fair.

Agreed...teams go from nowhere to great, and then back to nowhere all the time(Carolina and Anaheim, with Calgary going from nowhere to the Finals). Who knows for sure who would have been the top teams and who would have been horrible this year. I think this is a fair compromise, with the teams that have been bad in the past having a better shot than those teams who have been good.

 

[MePutPuckInNet]

Personally, I question the "three years". Why just three? That doesn't seem to represent a hell of a lot, in my opinion.

I think it should be based on a longer length of time, at least five years - anybody feel like doing the crunching to see how the odds would differ? [Sorry, I'm a thinker, not a doer].

 

[John Flyers Fan]

According to Bettman's plan, this is how many balls the lottery would work with:


3 balls:
NY Rangers
Pittsburgh
Buffalo
Florida
Atlanta
Columbus


2 balls:
Carolina
Washington
Phoenix
Los Angeles
Anaheim
Edmonton
Calgary
Minnesota
Chicago
Nashville


1 ball (teams who missed the playoffs once):
Montreal
Tampa Bay
San Jose
Dallas

1 ball (teams who made the playoffs all 3 years):
Philadelphia
NY Islanders
New Jersey
Boston
Toronto
Ottawa
Colorado
Vancouver
Detroit
St. Louis

Not a bad plan, but IMO if they are using three years as the base, the three teams that won Stanley Cups during that time period (New Jersey, Detroit, and Tampa) should have the lowest chance to get Crosby.

1 ball for Cup winners
2 balls for teams that made the playoffs all 3 seasons
3 balls if you missed once
4 balls if you missed twice
5 balls if you missed all 3 seasons

 

[CGG]

The draft has never been determined by how good a team will be next year.

The draft has never been determined by how good a team was in the three previous seasons either. It always relies on the previous season and the previous season only. Except there wasn't one. Say what you want, but you have no idea who would have finished first or last overall last year. Detroit could have pulled a Washington and tanked, ending up with a lottery pick.

Every team should not get a chance at Crosby and anyone who thinks so only does for selfish reasons.

Call it selfish, I call it fair. Asking for a 1 in 30 chance (or even smaller) isn't being selfish. Trying to base it on the last 5 years if your name is Columbus is being selfish.

 

[CGG]

Name me 3 teams that are likely to even lose 2 players under the various proposed systems, especially with a 24% rollback. I love seeing some posters, and this is not aimed at you but what I have seen generally, argue in posts like this how gutted their team is going to be and then in other threads argue how their teams not only will not be gutted but talking about which star players they will be adding to already loaded teams. The hypocracy of holding those two thoughts in one head boggles my mind.

If they expect to keep everyone, including pending UFA's:

1) Toronto
2) Detroit
3) Colorado (if Forsberg comes back)

What was the last proposal, a $32 million cap? Somewhere in that range? Maybe no rollback at all. After Belfour ($8 million when you include signing bonus) and Sundin ($9 million) Nolan ($6 million) and McCabe ($5 million) you can't possibly think they're in good shape to keep everyone. Even with a 24% rollback. Even if they do manage to keep everyone there's no possible way anyone but Leaf fans would think they're going to contend with their current lineup.

If nothing else, these teams will be completely out of the UFA market. Boston and Washington both gone from decent team, high payroll to the basement in recent years. Who's to say it wouldn't happen to one of Detroit, Toronto, or Colorado?

 

[MePutPuckInNet]

how about basing it on the number of years since the last CBA was put into effect? 1995, right? so.....ten years??

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If they expect to keep everyone, including pending UFA's:

1) Toronto
2) Detroit
3) Colorado (if Forsberg comes back)

What was the last proposal, a $32 million cap? Somewhere in that range? Maybe no rollback at all. After Belfour ($8 million when you include signing bonus) and Sundin ($9 million) Nolan ($6 million) and McCabe ($5 million) you can't possibly think they're in good shape to keep everyone. Even with a 24% rollback. Even if they do manage to keep everyone there's no possible way anyone but Leaf fans would think they're going to contend with their current lineup.

If nothing else, these teams will be completely out of the UFA market. Boston and Washington both gone from decent team, high payroll to the basement in recent years. Who's to say it wouldn't happen to one of Detroit, Toronto, or Colorado?

Good to see you backpedal from your previous 'Formerly elite teams will be gutted with UFA's and a salary cap' even if you had to be made to think about it to do so. Quite a difference between 'gutted' and not being able to sign a bright shiny new FA isn't there? And with that admission, how about going all the way and admitting that it is highly unlikely the truly elite talent teams would have had there been a 2004-5 season, or even will next year, fall very far . . . at least next year, and the sad sack teams almost entirely are not competing for any cups anytime soon. Go on, it will feel good to admit it. And with that in mind, why in the world would you let an elite team go top ten, bottom team pick last, in percentages as high as is proposed here?

 

[mooseOAK*]

If they expect to keep everyone, including pending UFA's:

1) Toronto
2) Detroit
3) Colorado (if Forsberg comes back)

What was the last proposal, a $32 million cap? Somewhere in that range? Maybe no rollback at all. After Belfour ($8 million when you include signing bonus) and Sundin ($9 million) Nolan ($6 million) and McCabe ($5 million) you can't possibly think they're in good shape to keep everyone. Even with a 24% rollback. Even if they do manage to keep everyone there's no possible way anyone but Leaf fans would think they're going to contend with their current lineup.

Any team with Sundin, Nolan, McCabe and Belfour isn't going to suck. Once they are gone the Leafs will be in as good cap shape as any team.

So, I don't see any reason to worry all that much.

 

[Chili]

Personally, I question the "three years". Why just three? That doesn't seem to represent a hell of a lot, in my opinion.

I think it should be based on a longer length of time, at least five years - anybody feel like doing the crunching to see how the odds would differ? [Sorry, I'm a thinker, not a doer].

Four years was the max. (when the Wild & Jackets entered the league).

Seems fair to me (chance to every team while somewhat weighted) although I too would like to see a snaked draft so that the team who does get the first pick does not benefit in every round.

 

[Mess]

Bettman would chew you up and spit you out in less time than it takes you to post one off your illogical rants.

Intellectually speaking, you couldn't even hold his clipboard.

The Article includes Bettman address :

Maybe you have a better idea. Send it to :

G. Bettman
c/o National Hockey League
251 Avenue of the Americas
New York, New York, 10020

He is looking for better idea's and is willing to take outside advice on this issue ..

This is his solution that he came up with, and seems to be desperately seeking help.

I wonder if he is looking for suggestions to help end the lockout as well, or on closing a deal or negotiating practices, or is he simply just stuck on this draft thing only ??

To me it seems he is stuck in neutral on numerous issues at this stage.

If Bettman delays long enough though, the solution could resolve itself.. Crosby's agent may have him declared a UFA by then, according to recent articles they have hired the appropriate top gun experts and are proceeding in that direction.