Draft and UDFA Thread 2018-19: Part VII (No Kakko/Hughes Talk)

[GeorgeKaplan]

podkolzin continues to fail at production.

hes a tough one to figure out

I think his floor is Hagelin, but I think the odds to hit his ceiling or floor are probably in favor of his floor

 

[Mac n Gs]

I'd opt for Newhook there simply because he adds such a unique element to a team that's building an identity around size, speed, and skill.

The multi-directional acceleration and agility are near the best in this class, and he couples elite playmaking potential with a gritty mentality. He's more north-south than someone like Zegras who can weave east-west through teams, and he really has that innate ability to push the pace and turn defenders on their heels. With how so much of offense is built off of controlled entries and lateral puck movement, Newhook will excel in a pro environment.

The two things I'm currently worried about are our forwards and defenders peaking at separate times (someone else made this point yesterday) and that we're building too homogenous of a team. You need to be able to attack in a multitude of ways and in waves. We're lacking that in our current group outside of Zibanejad. It was one of the reasons why that 13-14 team was so good- it could beat teams in whichever style their opponent wanted to play. I want them to get that ability back.

 

[Edge]

I have Podkolzin at 8 and everything about that has me uncomfortable.

From a skill and talent perspective, he should be third. And probably making a damn good case for being second.

From a repeated results and observation standpoint, I can't say that I’d be elated to be picking 8th and have him on the board. There are so many kids, even at that slot, who have shown more. Frankly, they deserve to be picked ahead of Podkolzin if we’re going strictly by performance.

Yet, he would be a hard one to pass up because there’s no one outside of Hughes or Kakko who can do what he does.

So now, if you’re a GM, it can quickly become a nightmare scenario. If this trend continues, you will have passed on some great young players. But if you pass on Podkolzin, and the light bulb goes off next season, you’re going to feel sick. Either way, there’s a good chance you’re going to be hearing about it for a long tine.

I’ll even put myself in that position. The Rangers play lets make a deal and have the 9th pick in the draft.

Hughes, Kakko, Byram, Dach, Cozens, Krebs, Turcotte and Zegras are off the board. In theory, no one has more talent or upside than Podkolzin. But passing on a kid like Boldy or York is tough in that scenario. Same for Newhook or several other guys.

Part of me feels like I “have to” take Podkolzin in that scenario. But I can’t say it feels right either.

 

[Kovalev27]

Newhook is a doable get. Gorton has to work some magic to move up but as I’ve said he’s every bit as good as turcotte or zegras imo.

Gorton is going to have to get in the 10-13 range to get him but a lot easier to make that happen with the 20th overall pick.

Rees is the perfect kid to take at 37. Perfect kid. Although I believe his stock is rising fast and he may get into the first round or at worst the first few picks of the second.

 

[offdacrossbar]

podkolzin doesnt give any reason to take a chance that high. hes a player with skills and no abilty to score consistently outside of a few international tourneys.

hes a guy who shows flashes of brilliance followed by alot of ranger rick nash invisible player vanishing act stuff.

i dont get it

 

[Lays]

2. Kakko
19. Newhook
28. Thomson
37. Bjornfot
58. Foote
69. Konovalov

Fight me

2. Kakko
19. Tomasino (might not be there at this rate though)
28. Poulin
37. Rees/Legare/Korczak
58. Donovan
69. Misyul
(-:

 

[Polar Bear]

I have Podkolzin at 8 and everything about that has me uncomfortable.

From a skill and talent perspective, he should be third. And probably making a damn good case for being second.

From a repeated results and observation standpoint, I can say that I’d be elated to be picking 8th and have him on the board. There are so many kids, even at that slot, who have shown more. Frankly, they deserve to be picked ahead of Podkolzin if we’re going strictly by performance.

Yet, he would be a hard one to pass up because there’s no one outside of Hughes or Kakko who can do what he does.

So now, if you’re a GM, it can quickly become a nightmare scenario. If this trend continues, you will have passed on some great young players. But if you pass on Podkolzin, and the light bulb goes off next season, you’re going to feel sick. Either way, there’s a good chance you’re going to be hearing about it for a long tine.

I’ll even put myself in that position. The Rangers play lets make a deal and have the 9th pick in the draft.

Hughes, Kakko, Byram, Dach, Cozens, Krebs, Turcotte and Zegras are off the board. In theory, no one has more talent or upside than Podkolzin. But passing on a kid like Boldy or York is tough in that scenario. Same for Newhook or several other guys.

Part of me feels like I “have to” take Podkolzin in that scenario. But I can’t say it feels right either.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but Pod has no case to be 2nd over Kakko. 90% of things Kakko either does better and obviously has the historic production to back his cause. Honestly, I might sooner take Byram/Turcotte (if healthy) at 3 than Pod.

 

[Edge]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but Pod has no case to be 2nd over Kakko. 90% of things Kakko either does better and obviously has the historic production to back his cause. Honestly, I might sooner take Byram/Turcotte (if healthy) at 3 than Pod.

No he doesn’t have a case, that’s not what I was trying to imply.

It was to illustrate that he’s every bit as naturally talented as Kakko. He should be right there in that conversation. The fact that he’s not is telling.

 

[Polar Bear]

No he doesn’t have a case, that’s not what I was trying to imply.

It was to illustrate that he’s every bit as naturally talented as Kakko. He should be right there in that conversation. The fact that he’s not is telling.

Ahhhh I see what you meant, and yes I concur with your thoughts then. Pod absolutely has the goods but the lack of production has to be very concerning. I'm not sure I would have the balls to pick a player that high who is essentially a giant toolbox right now.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

podkolzin continues to fail at production.

hes a tough one to figure out

Take that + the fact that he’s a wing + the contract situation... I’d rather someone else take the gamble and push one of the centers down.

 

[Levitate]

The two things I'm currently worried about are our forwards and defenders peaking at separate times (someone else made this point yesterday) and that we're building too homogenous of a team. You need to be able to attack in a multitude of ways and in waves. We're lacking that in our current group outside of Zibanejad. It was one of the reasons why that 13-14 team was so good- it could beat teams in whichever style their opponent wanted to play. I want them to get that ability back.

Explain more? That team was still more of a fast break counter attack team. All of AV's teams were. They didn't have one line that was great at puck possession and one line that was a counter attack line...I don't think most if any teams do something like that, it's too hard to coach everyone to do something different and of course lines rarely stay together all season long.

These past 3 drafts (including the upcoming one) could go a long long ways to shaping how this Rangers team shapes up for the future...even if Andersson isn't a pick that pans out as a top sixer and even if Chytil isn't anything more than a good depth scorer, if they hit on Kravtsov being a very talented top six guy with potential for more and Kakko being a franchise player then combined with guys like Howden, Buchnevich, Zibanejad...you've got a solid to great group of forwards as your core that bring some different styles of play individually IMO. Ultimately a TON is going to rest on how Howden and Andersson and Chytil can develop as centers or wingers, but we'll see how it goes.

 

[Ola]

podkolzin doesnt give any reason to take a chance that high. hes a player with skills and no abilty to score consistently outside of a few international tourneys.

hes a guy who shows flashes of brilliance followed by alot of ranger rick nash invisible player vanishing act stuff.

i dont get it

But you can just as well turn it around and say that he always produces, except during a brief loan stint in the MHL this season when he only had 6+2 for 8 pts in 12 games.

Like his production was stellar in 17-18, right?

His production for the national teams has been stellar this season, and remember that he has played much more for Russia than any SKA team. It’s more than a third of a season that he has produced at an excellent rate for.

The top scorer for his VHL team has 33 pts in 50 games. It’s a real farm team for which 51 different players has dresses this season. 5 points in 14 games for a kid playing for a team that really don’t score at all doesn’t say much to me.

Remember that it’s been a really back and forth season for him playing for 5 different teams.

But will it concern the people in charge of making very tough decisions between Pod and other impressing kids? I don’t think that is far fetched at all. But I am just saying that it’s not black and white.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

2. Kakko
19. Newhook
28. Thomson
37. Bjornfot
58. Foote
69. Konovalov

Fight me

2. Kakko
19. Heinola
28. Dorofeyev
37. Björnfot
58. Fagemo
69. Konovalov

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Was in Örnsköldsvik yesterday and watched US-Latvia and Russia-Sweden.

This US team just isn’t fair, Hughes had a meh game and they all kinda went at half speed but they still created some magic. Their D is underrated, especially Warren and Fensore who are both super smooth skaters. I thought Zegras, Boldy and Brink were their best Fs, they created chances pretty much every shift, Brink was a force along the boards.

The other game was much closer, Sweden did a good job keeping Russia to the outside but a poor job moving the puck, Swedish D had issues there, all of them except Broberg who had an excellent game.

For Russia their big guns were underwhelming, Podkolzin/Nikolaev did create some pressure but both were sloppy and they never really got to the inside. Podkolzin took two poor penalties and had a horrific No look spinorama giveaway which led to the 3-0 goal. Spiridonov had a quiet 1st period and then he stopped playing somewhere in the 2nd, didn’t catch What happened.

Their best line by far was the Sheshin-Khusnutdinov-Gushin line which created extended pressure and chances often, those wingers are really fun, quick and super tricky, Khusnitdinov balanced that line well. Another one that impressed me was Chistyakov, incredibly smooth skater and good passer.

I’ll be up Thursday, Saturday and Sunday aswell.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Explain more? That team was still more of a fast break counter attack team. All of AV's teams were. They didn't have one line that was great at puck possession and one line that was a counter attack line...I don't think most if any teams do something like that, it's too hard to coach everyone to do something different and of course lines rarely stay together all season long.

These past 3 drafts (including the upcoming one) could go a long long ways to shaping how this Rangers team shapes up for the future...even if Andersson isn't a pick that pans out as a top sixer and even if Chytil isn't anything more than a good depth scorer, if they hit on Kravtsov being a very talented top six guy with potential for more and Kakko being a franchise player then combined with guys like Howden, Buchnevich, Zibanejad...you've got a solid to great group of forwards as your core that bring some different styles of play individually IMO. Ultimately a TON is going to rest on how Howden and Andersson and Chytil can develop as centers or wingers, but we'll see how it goes.

I wasn't talking about specific lines playing out different schemes. That 13-14 team still had a strong carryover from Torts' hockey, and they were much more methodical with cycling and establishing possession. Still having that grinding mentality helped them buckle things down when their opponent tried slugging it out with them. If a team wanted to open it up, they had the perfect mix for an AV team that could keep their defense in motion and counterattack as necessary. The big shift towards being more of a counter attack really started in 14-15

 

[egelband]

Thanks for the insight. Kreider at 50% sounds pretty appealing...

I guess the question is, what other scorers are available? Who else might they be eyeing?

 

[egelband]

I think Edmonton will be very loathe to take anyone headed to the American college route.

Good point. As a Ranger fan this is something I never consider.

 

[egelband]

Changes are coming for sure in Winnipeg. Chevy surely won't be pleased with two years in a row without a conference championship after spending two consecutive first round picks at the deadline for players that were supposed to be the missing piece.

Big summer for them. Laine disappeared after Game 2. He and Connor are due big money this summer. I have a feeling only one returns to Winnipeg next season...

If they keep Maurice, it's just another wasted year for them coming up.

 

[egelband]

Yeah, and he plays a very mature style of hockey. I think he would be a good pick late in the 1st especially since we need some forward prospects. Our 3 best unsigned forward prospects right now are Virta, Barron and I guess Riley Hughes?

I suppose the Rangers have to send Riley Hughes to the Canucks, right?

 

[Edge]

Was in Örnsköldsvik yesterday and watched US-Latvia and Russia-Sweden.

This US team just isn’t fair, Hughes had a meh game and they all kinda went at half speed but they still created some magic. Their D is underrated, especially Warren and Fensore who are both super smooth skaters. I thought Zegras, Boldy and Brink were their best Fs, they created chances pretty much every shift, Brink was a force along the boards.

The other game was much closer, Sweden did a good job keeping Russia to the outside but a poor job moving the puck, Swedish D had issues there, all of them except Broberg who had an excellent game.

For Russia their big guns were underwhelming, Podkolzin/Nikolaev did create some pressure but both were sloppy and they never really got to the inside. Podkolzin took two poor penalties and had a horrific No look spinorama giveaway which led to the 3-0 goal. Spiridonov had a quiet 1st period and then he stopped playing somewhere in the 2nd, didn’t catch What happened.

Their best line by far was the Sheshin-Khusnutdinov-Gushin line which created extended pressure and chances often, those wingers are really fun, quick and super tricky, Khusnitdinov balanced that line well. Another one that impressed me was Chistyakov, incredibly smooth skater and good passer.

I’ll be up Thursday, Saturday and Sunday aswell.

I agree with all of this and find that it's actually pretty reflective of what I've seen on a larger scale.

One of the reasons I like Zegras is that I feel like he's involved and making stuff happen, even if it doesn't necessarily result in a point (and it often does). Brink is a kid who I really want to see more of against tougher competition, but also with better linemates. I think he's going to have a hard time pushing some of the players ahead of him, because of their performance and level of competition, but I also think he's potentially a great value pick with much higher upside than some of the other forwards who will likely be on the board outside of the top 15 or so.

Broberg is a kid who has shot to go in the top 10. I love the offensive tools, the skating and the willingness to gamble a little. He's often still on the raw side, as he tries to figure out which pieces go where and when they should go there, but IMO he's the second best defenseman in the draft behind Byram.

Warren is a kid I've had in and around the late 20s and early 30s. I think he's an incredibly underrated talent because he plays more of a two-way game, and that doesn't always leap off the ice (or the stat sheet) when you watch him. He's more of a longer-term prospect, but he's definitely in the mix of guys I'd consider with our second, or even if we're picking in the late first.

 

[Ola]

Edge- Warren is really good and so is Fensore, but you can only treat yourself to so many of those type of players...

Hehe, when you think about it, it would be a bit funny if Gorton just went **** this and collected an immensely talented group of D's (maybe one guy like K'Andree) and didn't care about size at all.

I suppose the Rangers have to send Riley Hughes to the Canucks, right?

lol!

 

[offdacrossbar]

without putting too much weigh, both negative and positive, on one game, the us team has so much fire power and talent it seems its different kids stepping up in different games. the entire team is talented top to bottom.

one thing thats stands out is the way the us team shoots it. one timers. they all snap it off the pass. they are taught well.

caufield, boldy and turcotte have looked fantastic. hughes is always dangerous- hes so smooth with the puck.

broberg looked good. hes big, and fluid, and involved. hes a guy who will get alot of attention once the top 10 forwards and byram are gone. still like the late 1st choice of bjornfot who seems to have a really solid understanding and a good tool box. kids 6'0 200 lbs solid stocky build and a terrific skater.

last look, alex newhook was 4th in scoring and leading the canadian team. 8 points in 4 games is solid. kids looked right at home on a top line even on the edge with dach and cozens.

dare i say hes outplayed dylan cozens by a fair bit ? still early but so far, hes showing hes good with the puck and good away from the puck. certainly not showing any signs of defensive disinterest, physical play avoidance, moodiness, or other negative attributes.

this is a kid that we should be focusing on.

kakko - wing
newhook - center
bjornfot- LD

 

[Kovalev27]

I had broberg 10th yesterday in my latest mock as well.

This US team it’s going to be interesting to see what these kids do APART. It’s an absolute powerhouse together playing teams that just don’t even come close to measuring up. But what do these guys look like away from each other? That’s going to be an interesting question. I mean right now I have 6 of them in my top 15 picks maybe 7 if Knight goes to Fla. That’s insane. No one else is playing on a team like that. It’s bound to inflate your stats to a degree. Has that ever even happened before. 6 or 7 guys from the same team in the first 15 picks of the draft??

Hughes
Turcotte
Caufield
Zegras
Boldy
York
Knight

 

[Edge]

Edge- Warren is really good and so is Fensore, but you can only treat yourself to so many of those type of players...

Hehe, when you think about it, it would be a bit funny if Gorton just went **** this and collected an immensely talented group of D's (maybe one guy like K'Andree) and didn't care about size at all.



lol!

Really comes down to who is on the board and where.

Would I take Warren if Dorofyev is on the board? Absolutely not.

Would I take him if some of the high-reward, reasonable risk guys are gone? Perhaps.

But you know me, my philosophy has always been that I'd rather have too much talent in one area, and be "forced" to choose my pick of the litter, than have less to work with and have to try and polish a turd.

 

[Ola]

Really comes down to who is on the board and where.

Would I take Warren if Dorofyev is on the board? Absolutely not.

Would I take him if some of the high-reward, reasonable risk guys are gone? Perhaps.

But you know me, my philosophy has always been that I'd rather have too much talent in one area, and be "forced" to choose my pick of the litter, than have less to work with and have to try and polish a turd.

Yeah and I don't disagree with that, in that range, but I would have a much bigger problem with getting a small LD in the top 10.

In the end, I think the best GMs manage to find the right players at that right spots. But its certainly an illusion to think that any type is available at any draft position. Most of the kids in that range that we are talking about now will definitely bust or at best become marginal NHLers that more or less only will play up to journey men replacement level. I.e. basically hold no value. So if you can get "a" player, you have done a lot better than the rest to start with.