Draft and UDFA Thread 2017-18

[Mac n Gs]

I'm gonna keep my eye on Thilander this season. Hopefully he can have a better year than last on a hopeless North Bay team

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

All due respect to poor Cherepanov, but Tarasenko was a better prospect than him, and so is Svechnikov. Cherepanov, IMO, was going to end up a good 2nd line forward, maybe 60 pts. Tarasenko had the potential to be one of the league's best scorers, potential that he has lived up to, and Svechnikov has that level of talent.

Can't say I agree with this.

First of all, I don't think 60 points is 2nd line potential, thats first line potential, but either way, you are putting Cherepanov in essentially what most people think is Buchnevich's eventual level, around 60 points per season most seasons during his prime. Cherepanov was better than Buchnevich is. He outperformed Kane when they were in the same draft year, and probably would've had a good chance to go 1OA had it not been for the height of the Russian factor being when he was drafted. Cherepanov put up better stats than all those Russian forwards, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Buchnevich, Kaprizov, Kucherov. All of them, his stats in the Russian leagues at different age levels and for Russian national Teams were better.

If I remember correctly about Cherepanov, he was a playmaking forward with incredibly hockey sense and puck skills. They said his skating needed work, and he needed to gain weight.

But maybe I remember it incorrectly. Its obviously early on, but I think Svechnikov and Cherepanov are around comparable. I don't think Tarasenko is comparable to Cherepanov. Just my opinion though.

 

[Inferno]

Cherepanov was a heck of a passer..but Tarasenko has the shot..Cherepanov couldnt even come close to shooting the puck liek Tarasenko can..and Tarasenko has the big body..cherepanov was slight.

I think cherepanov was more like a Radulov than a Tarasenko personally.

 

[Joey Bones]

Cherepanov was a heck of a passer..but Tarasenko has the shot..Cherepanov couldnt even come close to shooting the puck liek Tarasenko can..and Tarasenko has the big body..cherepanov was slight.

I think cherepanov was more like a Radulov than a Tarasenko personally.

Agree with the bolded. Cherry also had some Power Forward capability in tight.

 

[Joey Bones]

So here's the annual early top 10 list for the 2018 draft....

1. RW: Andrei Svechnikov
2. D: Rasmus Dahlin
3. C: Joe Veleno
4. D: Ryan Merkley
5. C/LW: Isac Lundestrom
6. C: Allan McShane
7. D: Quinton Hughes
8. D: Jarred McIsaac
9. W: David Levin
10. D: Adam Boqvist

This is strictly just from stat/progression watching. I haven't seen many highlights to form opinions on these guys yet. Think it's easy to say that defenseman is the highlight of this draft crop. This is definitely a stronger draft class than 2017, depth-wise.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

So here's the annual early top 10 list for the 2018 draft....

1. RW: Andrei Svechnikov
2. D: Rasmus Dahlin
3. C: Joe Veleno
4. D: Ryan Merkley
5. C/LW: Isac Lundestrom
6. C: Allan McShane
7. D: Quinton Hughes
8. D: Jarred McIsaac
9. W: David Levin
10. D: Adam Boqvist

This is strictly just from stat/progression watching. I haven't seen many highlights to form opinions on these guys yet. Think it's easy to say that defenseman is the highlight of this draft crop. This is definitely a stronger draft class than 2017, depth-wise.

My quick thoughts, Dahlin > Svechnikov but i think that's OK.

No Zadina is a crime against humanity (wink wink), but seriously, he's sooooo good, outplayed Chytil and Necas for U18.

Lundeström is way too high imo, he's good but not top 10, Levin is also way too high, i think he's a borderline 1st rounder who might rise fast if he has a good season, talent is definitely there.

I'd definitely have Tkachuk top 10 too, he was very good for U18 this spring, love that you have Quinn Hughes there, destroyed the U18 tourneys.

 

[Revel]

So here's the annual early top 10 list for the 2018 draft....

1. RW: Andrei Svechnikov
2. D: Rasmus Dahlin
3. C: Joe Veleno
4. D: Ryan Merkley
5. C/LW: Isac Lundestrom
6. C: Allan McShane
7. D: Quinton Hughes
8. D: Jarred McIsaac
9. W: David Levin
10. D: Adam Boqvist

This is strictly just from stat/progression watching. I haven't seen many highlights to form opinions on these guys yet. Think it's easy to say that defenseman is the highlight of this draft crop. This is definitely a stronger draft class than 2017, depth-wise.

Levin is interesting. As an Israeli citizen, he's required to register for the draft when he turns 18, and serve three years in the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces). That won't do much for his development...

 

[Joey Bones]

My quick thoughts, Dahlin > Svechnikov but i think that's OK.

No Zadina is a crime against humanity (wink wink), but seriously, he's sooooo good, outplayed Chytil and Necas for U18.

Lundeström is way too high imo, he's good but not top 10, Levin is also way too high, i think he's a borderline 1st rounder who might rise fast if he has a good season, talent is definitely there.

I'd definitely have Tkachuk top 10 too, he was very good for U18 this spring, love that you have Quinn Hughes there, destroyed the U18 tourneys.

I consider Dahlin/Svechnikov as a 1a/1b situation. Both are stellar prospects. Think the edge goes to an elite forward over a solid two-way defender. It'll also depend on the team drafting 1st overall and their depth at said situations.

I really like Zadina, too, but from what I saw this past season, think his skating is a bit clunky. Could change, though, as he can maneuver around opponents at ease.

The thing I like about Lundestrom is that he's nearly played a full season in the SHL as a 16 year old, playing more games than Dahlin at the same age. Also played phenomenal at U18's. Think he'll play fully with Lulea and rise his stock.

I have a soft spot for Levin with his whole story of coming over to Canada from Israel. Absolutely insane story, yet he's overcome some of the adversaries as a 17 year old. I haven't heard anything new on his military status, though. I can see him dropping, but talent is there for sure.

Tkachuk is solid, too. Could fit in the top 10. There can be a lot of movement, but not as scattered like couple weeks ago. Depth is fantastic in this class.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So here's the annual early top 10 list for the 2018 draft....

1. RW: Andrei Svechnikov
2. D: Rasmus Dahlin
3. C: Joe Veleno
4. D: Ryan Merkley
5. C/LW: Isac Lundestrom
6. C: Allan McShane
7. D: Quinton Hughes
8. D: Jarred McIsaac
9. W: David Levin
10. D: Adam Boqvist

This is strictly just from stat/progression watching. I haven't seen many highlights to form opinions on these guys yet. Think it's easy to say that defenseman is the highlight of this draft crop. This is definitely a stronger draft class than 2017, depth-wise.

Thoughts:

The consensus 1OA is getting so underrated by a lot of people, obviously not just you. How anyone could not have Dahlin 1OA, I don't know. You guys are the one's with the Russian bias. Glad I won't be accused of that in this draft.

I like Lundestrom, but I think he's too high. I think he has limited upside. I like McShane, think he's underrated if anything, but also too high. I think Levin is just hype based on his interesting story, wouldn't have him in the top few rounds.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Levin is interesting. As an Israeli citizen, he's required to register for the draft when he turns 18, and serve three years in the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces). That won't do much for his development...

Think pro athletes can be granted permission to delay it, i read something about this in an article about Levin before the OHL draft.

 

[Revel]

Think pro athletes can be granted permission to delay it, i read something about this in an article about Levin before the OHL draft.

His wiki says he got a delay until June of next year....right after the 2018 draft. I mean, it gives him another full uninterrupted season in Sudbury...but what then? He plays soldier from 18-1/2 to 21-1/2 without playing competitive hockey? If that's the case, he's done. You can't spend 3 years in the IDF ... especially at that formative age ... and go on to play NHL hockey.

Unless he somehow gets full exemption...or is maybe only required to do a year in the IDF...I think he's going nowhere. Who would draft him?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

His wiki says he got a delay until June of next year....right after the 2018 draft. I mean, it gives him another full uninterrupted season in Sudbury...but what then? He plays soldier from 18-1/2 to 21-1/2 without playing competitive hockey? If that's the case, he's done. You can't spend 3 years in the IDF ... especially at that formative age ... and go on to play NHL hockey.

Unless he somehow gets full exemption...or is maybe only required to do a year in the IDF...I think he's going nowhere. Who would draft him?

I'm sure there are ways to circumvent it, or like do it spread out during the summers or something, i'm sure they'll work something out.

 

[Revel]

I'm sure there are ways to circumvent it, or like do it spread out during the summers or something, i'm sure they'll work something out.

Was curious how this worked for Max Birbraer back in the day. He was born in 1980 and drafted #67 by the devils in 2000. Prior to being drafted, he returned to Israel in 1999 to renew his passport, and was arrested and imprisoned for three weeks for avoiding the military draft in Israel. He then served in the army, and was discharged for undisclosed medical reasons.

It seems they punished Max, but ultimately let him go & play hockey. They'll probably let Levin go, too.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Was curious how this worked for Max Birbraer back in the day. He was born in 1980 and drafted #67 by the devils in 2000. Prior to being drafted, he returned to Israel in 1999 to renew his passport, and was arrested and imprisoned for three weeks for avoiding the military draft in Israel. He then served in the army, and was discharged for undisclosed medical reasons.

It seems they punished Max, but ultimately let him go & play hockey. They'll probably let Levin go, too.

Yeah, maybe he'll have to do some intense course thing over a summer or two but i'd say they'll find a way to mostly avoid it

 

[NYR Sting]

Can't say I agree with this.

First of all, I don't think 60 points is 2nd line potential, thats first line potential, but either way, you are putting Cherepanov in essentially what most people think is Buchnevich's eventual level, around 60 points per season most seasons during his prime. Cherepanov was better than Buchnevich is. He outperformed Kane when they were in the same draft year, and probably would've had a good chance to go 1OA had it not been for the height of the Russian factor being when he was drafted. Cherepanov put up better stats than all those Russian forwards, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Buchnevich, Kaprizov, Kucherov. All of them, his stats in the Russian leagues at different age levels and for Russian national Teams were better.

If I remember correctly about Cherepanov, he was a playmaking forward with incredibly hockey sense and puck skills. They said his skating needed work, and he needed to gain weight.

But maybe I remember it incorrectly. Its obviously early on, but I think Svechnikov and Cherepanov are around comparable. I don't think Tarasenko is comparable to Cherepanov. Just my opinion though.

Over the last 3 NHL seasons, Tarasenko (who has played 4.5 seasons in the leauge) is 5th in total points and 2nd in total goals. He is one of the 5-10 best players in the league, and IMO, has not reached his prime yet. The comparable is Ilya Kovalchuk, who from 2001-2013 ( his entire NHL career to date) led the league in total goals and was 4th in total points.

I can tell you as a Russian speaker/reader that as far as I can recall, no one in Russia, much less anywhere else, thought Cherepanov was a Kovalchuk-level talent. I wouldn't call his hockey sense incredible, either. Above average, perhaps. I would say his game, with his lack of speed and strength, but strong passing skills and height was better suited for bigger rinks and the Euro style. Tarasenko has already made a Kovalchuk-style impact in this league. and Svechnikov has the physical attributes and skill set that are perfect for the NHL. They have the power and speed to create opportunities from the extremely limited time and space you find on small, crowded NHL rinks, and they have the high-end puckhandling and shooting skills to make the most out of those opportunities. Both are also very good and willing playmakers as well, although that is probably an area where Cherry rated above them.

I can't find those old posts, but I know that while I was happy the Rangers drafted Cherepanov in 2007, my level of joy was not nearly as extreme as my level of anger when they did not draft Tarasenko in 2010.

Thoughts:

The consensus 1OA is getting so underrated by a lot of people, obviously not just you. How anyone could not have Dahlin 1OA, I don't know. You guys are the one's with the Russian bias. Glad I won't be accused of that in this draft.

I like Lundestrom, but I think he's too high. I think he has limited upside. I like McShane, think he's underrated if anything, but also too high. I think Levin is just hype based on his interesting story, wouldn't have him in the top few rounds.

I'm actually the person with an enormous Swedish bias, usually. I almost always prefer Swedish prospects due to their strong emphasis on positioning, skating, and other fudamentals. But in this case, Svechnikov is just too good. Perennial 40 goal scorer. His potential IS Kovalchuk/Tarasenko levels. In other words, with Svechnkov coming into the league as Ovechkin's career winds down, he has the potential to become the league's best goalscorer. As good as Dahlin is, I don't think he's Erik Karlsson, which is what he'd have to be for me to be more interested in him than a perennial 40 goal scorer.

 

[Joey Bones]

Thoughts:

The consensus 1OA is getting so underrated by a lot of people, obviously not just you. How anyone could not have Dahlin 1OA, I don't know. You guys are the one's with the Russian bias. Glad I won't be accused of that in this draft.

I like Lundestrom, but I think he's too high. I think he has limited upside. I like McShane, think he's underrated if anything, but also too high. I think Levin is just hype based on his interesting story, wouldn't have him in the top few rounds.

First off, I don't have bias towards any nationality. That is absurd to think. If a player is better than the other, than they are better than the other. Could give a **** where they're from lolol.

As good as Dahlin is, Svechnikov is equally as impressive. He has been above PPG in his last 3 seasons, whereas Dahlin didn't. Dahlin does play an extremely well two-way game, very similar to Victor Hedman, IMO, but Svechnikov has an extremely high ceiling in regards to point production. Again, it's a 1a/1b situation for me. Think it'll depend on what team picks 1st overall.

As for the others, it's way too early to tell. IMO, a full ranking on these players, at the moment, are full bologna because no one has seen them play in a draft year, yet. That's when most scouts, critics, etc. start to really evaluate progression in players' performances and make more true rankings. Look at Luke Kirwan, for example. In the summer of 2015, he was wildly considered to be a top 10 pick in that class (along with Matthews/Laine & Co.). Since that season started, where did his name go? He's going to be a double overager for the 2018 class now and, in all likelihood, will get passed on again. In other words, all lists that come out right now are just highlighting names, IMO.

With this said, I make this "Way Too Early" top 10 because I just like to see how wrong/right I am come draft day. It's all for ***** and gigs. There will be some maneuvering, for sure.

 

[cwede]

moving this comment here, where it better belongs,
from the Poll thread,
would be curious thoughts re Toninato,
maybe he's been discussed here already, i dont visit here much

...RE "nice to add 2 more blue chips guys"
the guy i would love to see land with NYR is Pionk's former teammate,
Dominic Toninato, can be UFA Aug 15, if not signed by TML,
not incredible scoring stats at Minn-Duluth,
but had strong 2-way seasons as #1/#2 C the last 2 seasons

 

[Ola]

Levin is interesting. As an Israeli citizen, he's required to register for the draft when he turns 18, and serve three years in the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces). That won't do much for his development...

Don't elite athletes get a pass? Finland still has conscription and Sweden had it just up until a few years ago, but here you got a pass if you were an elite athlete. In Finland I think they get a light version summer time.

 

[Revel]

Don't elite athletes get a pass? Finland still has conscription and Sweden had it just up until a few years ago, but here you got a pass if you were an elite athlete. In Finland I think they get a light version summer time.

Well, Israel is not quite Scandinavia, lol. Things are different over there. They're making Levin register for the draft after this upcoming season ends. Perhaps it won't be a full-time commitment that they expect of him....I don't know. The only precedent is Max Birbraer. He tried to dodge it (to be clear, Levin is not dodging anything) in the early 2000s and ended up in Israeli Prison for 3 weeks...then entered the IDF. He got out early for "medical" reasons, though. Guess we'll just have to see what happens...

 

[Ola]

Since Dahlin is a D, and a bit of an unprecedented talent, I fully agree that it's a bit too early to tell.

But by my account he is looking like a McDavid or Crosby on D and as such -- a generational talent -- should be a lock to go FOA if you had to make the decision today. Svech is great, but more of a Yasin than Crosby if you get what I mean. He is the best Swedish 16 y/o / young 17 y/o ever and it's not really close.

16 y/o in the SHL looks like really raw kids playing among men without exception pre Dahlin. This is what he is doing offensively:


And there are just as many defensive plays that can be highlighted. Sometimes he struggled defensively because he literary skates too fast. He hustles to recover and then just blows past the attacker and have to take a big long turn the other way to let the forward come in on him closing the gap. Very good hip checker.

I for example like Brännström a lot, think Vegas made a good pick on him, we have all seen the amazing footage of him from the U18 WJCs. In comparision, as an 18 y/o in the SHL Brännström is a real tweeter, like most prospects his age in the SHL. Dahlin hits the ice as a somewhat young 16 y/o and just skates one notch faster than anyone else, seems like he has a gear nobody else have. Never seen anything even remotely like that, and this is definitely an area I've followed closely for a good 20 years.

But since so much can happen at this age, there are few comparisions, Svech being a super good prospect albeit not a generational talent like Corsby/McDavid, a lot can of course happen. But when closing the books on this year I think you got to have Dahlin No 1.

 

[nyr2k2]

moving this comment here, where it better belongs,
from the Poll thread,
would be curious thoughts re Toninato,
maybe he's been discussed here already, i dont visit here much

Any other players who may not sign with/receive a deal from their clubs that bear watching?

 

[cwede]

Any other players who may not sign with/receive a deal from their clubs that bear watching?

the biggest name may be Will Butcher, reigning Hobie Baker winner, small-ish D from U.Denver who is not signing with Colorado

 

[cwede]

asked and answered at
2017-18 Free Agency Thread
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=134394897#post134394897

thank you Tao Jones

35 names

is there a listing anywhere, here at HFB, of drafted-but-unsigned, graduated NCAA players, ie the guys who become UFA on Aug 15th if not signed by drafting club?
have seen mentions of a few, like Butcher and Toninato
thanks

Second table.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=122654931&postcount=2

UPDATE - my bad, didn't look closley at far right column, ~15 of the listed guys have signed AHL/ECHL deals

 

[nyr2k2]

the biggest name may be Will Butcher, reigning Hobie Baker winner, small-ish D from U.Denver who is not signing with Colorado

I wonder if he'd want to come here given our sudden glut of young D.

 

[Ola]

Well, Israel is not quite Scandinavia, lol. Things are different over there. They're making Levin register for the draft after this upcoming season ends. Perhaps it won't be a full-time commitment that they expect of him....I don't know. The only precedent is Max Birbraer. He tried to dodge it (to be clear, Levin is not dodging anything) in the early 2000s and ended up in Israeli Prison for 3 weeks...then entered the IDF. He got out early for "medical" reasons, though. Guess we'll just have to see what happens...

Nah, but they were pretty strict with it here too during the Cold War.

But for all countries, sports seen as some sort of propaganda and if you throw all young athletes into Military Service for 2-3 years when they are 18 y/o you won't develop any athlets in any sports.

I found this:

Leading active athletes might in many cases be granted an "Outstanding athlete" status which allows them to get a more convenient and shorter service, so they can continue to develop their career and represent Israel abroad in international competitions. The "Outstanding athlete" status is given only to athletes competing in Olympic sports

This is what went on in Finland before and I think also in Sweden during the 80s, if you were a hockey player you had to make like a 2 month service one summer.