Dougie Hamilton vs Colton Parayko (Top 31 defensemen - #19)

[avatar1998*]

He's not a #4 defenseman though, he's a solid #2 defenseman that plays the tough minutes

Ehh don't see it that way, especially considering his underlying stats and after watching him against the Ducks and Sharks. Although I don't see Klefbom as a #1 defenceman, Larsson likely had his offensive stats padded a bit if he was being paired with him or Sekera. Based on what I watched, it looked like Klefbom was his partner but I didn't watch him often in the regular season. His minutes don't seem that tough either if you're talking about zone starts or ATOI. Based on my viewings, his offensive game is pretty non-existent and I actually have no idea how he even managed almost 20 points even with his high PDO.

I also just checked and it seems your coach is using Russell more than Larsson which really does not bode well for your case. Russell isn't even a top-4 defenceman and plays an even greater defensive role than Larsson but put up only 6 less points.

I see him as a good middle-pairing guy, mainly a #4 but also a borderline #3. Taylor Hall on the other hand, wow, you guys really shouldn't have traded him like that. It wasn't too long ago most considered him an elite talent and even after a down year, I don't think non-Oilers fans have soured on him too much.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Parakyo and it's not that close for me

 

[TK 421]

Just wanted to add some context to Parayko's production to date. Keep in mind that prior to being traded last year Kevin Shattenkirk was hoarding all the prime PP minutes in St.Louis. Both Pietrangelo and Parayko's production saw an uptick once he was gone and both will certainly be set up to have career years.

 

[DJJones]

Just wanted to add some context to Parayko's production to date. Keep in mind that prior to being traded last year Kevin Shattenkirk was hoarding all the prime PP minutes in St.Louis. Both Pietrangelo and Parayko's production saw an uptick once he was gone and both will certainly be set up to have career years.

Could look at Hamilton's production and say the same thing. First twenty games he got stuck on the 3rd pairing and averaged about 17M a night. His penalties were to blame too but Jokkipakka and Grossman certainly contributed. He got two three point games but otherwise he was suffering big time.

Then he got dropped to the 2nd PP, mostly I think because GG wanted to keep the top pairing and Backlunds line on the second unit. Not a bad idea because those five can dominate five on five after the PP but it certainly hurt his production. Ideally he should have had Vertseegs spot.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Ehh don't see it that way, especially considering his underlying stats and after watching him against the Ducks and Sharks. Although I don't see Klefbom as a #1 defenceman, Larsson likely had his offensive stats padded a bit if he was being paired with him or Sekera. Based on what I watched, it looked like Klefbom was his partner but I didn't watch him often in the regular season. His minutes don't seem that tough either if you're talking about zone starts or ATOI. Based on my viewings, his offensive game is pretty non-existent and I actually have no idea how he even managed almost 20 points even with his high PDO.

I also just checked and it seems your coach is using Russell more than Larsson which really does not bode well for your case. Russell isn't even a top-4 defenceman and plays an even greater defensive role than Larsson but put up only 6 less points.

Larsson played the 2nd most ES minutes in the regular season followed by the most ES minutes by over 2 minutes in the playoffs AND logged the most ice time at over 23 minutes a game

you need to watch closer

the only reason he'll never be a #1 d-man is due to his lack of offense

I see him as a good middle-pairing guy, mainly a #4 but also a borderline #3. Taylor Hall on the other hand, wow, you guys really shouldn't have traded him like that. It wasn't too long ago most considered him an elite talent and even after a down year, I don't think non-Oilers fans have soured on him too much.

Taylor Hall is a good #1 LWer, no one ever disputed that...problem with him is that he's often injured, never hit 30 goals and hasn't elevated NJ's offense one bit

 

[Haatley]

Larsson played the 2nd most ES minutes in the regular season followed by the most ES minutes by over 2 minutes in the playoffs AND logged the most ice time at over 23 minutes a game

you need to watch closer

the only reason he'll never be a #1 d-man is due to his lack of offense

Taylor Hall is a good #1 LWer, no one ever disputed that...problem with him is that he's often injured, never hit 30 goals and hasn't elevated NJ's offense one bit

Go start a Larson thread.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Calgary isn't a very good team for having 3 defenseman in the top 20

Calgary's bottom 3 last season are not even top 300 Dman.

 

[Aceboogie]

Great poll. This one is dead even. Hamilton is a beast and looking to be a good #1. But for me Parayko just has that future Norris potential. He can generate points but hes also a tough SOB and a rock in his own end

Close but CP

 

[major major]

Calgary's bottom 3 last season are not even top 300 Dman.

That didn't stop Chicago when they had a solid D group the last couple years.

 

[TK 421]

Could look at Hamilton's production and say the same thing. First twenty games he got stuck on the 3rd pairing and averaged about 17M a night. His penalties were to blame too but Jokkipakka and Grossman certainly contributed. He got two three point games but otherwise he was suffering big time.

Then he got dropped to the 2nd PP, mostly I think because GG wanted to keep the top pairing and Backlunds line on the second unit. Not a bad idea because those five can dominate five on five after the PP but it certainly hurt his production. Ideally he should have had Vertseegs spot.

Pietrangelo and Parayko have both been stuck behind Shattenkirk for PP time the entire time he's been on the team(essentially their entire careers), not 20 games or a season. In any case I didn't mention Hamilton at all in my post nor did I vote in this poll. Just wanted to give context to Parayko's production and that both he and Pietrangelo are set up to have career years offensively. Thanks for the context re: Hamilton, it's always good to help put a players season in perspective.

 

[BlueDream]

Well the unwritten rule is that to break the tie, you usually choose the guy whose name isn't Dougie. So that's what I did.

 

[irishsetter13]

Honestly. There is zero reason Calgary should have 3 players in the top 20 for Defenseman. I am 100% sure I would take Nashvilles top Four over Calgary's top Four. I'd even take Nashvilles top three over Calgarys Top 3 and Ekholm/Ellis aren't close to being picked right now.

 

[Redline]

Honestly. There is zero reason Calgary should have 3 players in the top 20 for Defenseman. I am 100% sure I would take Nashvilles top Four over Calgary's top Four. I'd even take Nashvilles top three over Calgarys Top 3 and Ekholm/Ellis aren't close to being picked right now.

Nor should they be.

 

[avatar1998*]

Larsson played the 2nd most ES minutes in the regular season followed by the most ES minutes by over 2 minutes in the playoffs AND logged the most ice time at over 23 minutes a game

you need to watch closer

the only reason he'll never be a #1 d-man is due to his lack of offense

Taylor Hall is a good #1 LWer, no one ever disputed that...problem with him is that he's often injured, never hit 30 goals and hasn't elevated NJ's offense one bit

Yes, and I mentioned that he's still playing his defensive-role second to Kris Russell and that is not good. I wasn't looking at playoffs since that's a very small sample size at the end of the day but I think you're overstating his role in the playoffs. His ATOI was only 23 minutes because he played 40+ minutes in a game that went to double OT. He was typically averaging 20/21 minutes. Regardless, just because he averages more minutes on a thin defence doesn't speak as a testament to his abilities.

You don't want your top 3 defencemen to lack an offensive game. Strictly stay-at-home defenceman should either be in your bottom 3 (ex. Engelland) or paired with someone with a weaker defensive game. Guys like Larsson might be a good fit, as I mentioned in my original post, but value-wise, they are not worth Hall. Also don't get me wrong, Larsson >> Engelland, I was just giving an example.

Regarding Taylor Hall, he missed 10 games last year and was still tied for the team lead in points. Injury-wise, that seems pretty normal seem and he definitely added to that offence. No one player, unless they're a McDavid or Crosby-type, can really overhaul an offence on their own. I don't see the 30 goals part as a big deal either. He can carry a line, no doubt about that.

Honestly. There is zero reason Calgary should have 3 players in the top 20 for Defenseman. I am 100% sure I would take Nashvilles top Four over Calgary's top Four. I'd even take Nashvilles top three over Calgarys Top 3 and Ekholm/Ellis aren't close to being picked right now.

This sounds more like jealousy than an actual argument. Nashville's defence is being (deservedly) hyped because of their long playoff run but it might distort their values a bit. While their top 2 guys are arguably equal or better than the guys in our top 3, Ekholm and Ellis are just behind these five guys imo.

That didn't stop Chicago when they had a solid D group the last couple years.

Uhhh I think any Chicago fan would tell you that their bottom pairing defencemen were a burden. If TVR hadn't come around, I don't think you'd be making this comment. What carried them in the past was their unmatched forward depth, underrated but ridiculously good goalie, a game-breaking defencemen, and an excellent coach.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Honestly. There is zero reason Calgary should have 3 players in the top 20 for Defenseman. I am 100% sure I would take Nashvilles top Four over Calgary's top Four. I'd even take Nashvilles top three over Calgarys Top 3 and Ekholm/Ellis aren't close to being picked right now.

I don't get the taking Ekholm and Ellis over Hamilton and Brodie. I'd take Josi and Subban over all 3 easily yes, but even then purely defensively Brodie and Giordano are better than Josi and Giordano is the best out of every defenseman (Ekholm defensively against softer competition is the best in the league, but Giordano still does better defensively against elite competition, so defensively Brodie-Ekholm is a wash, but Brodie produces more making him currently the better Dman, also Ekholm has never had to babysit a #7Dman unlike Brodie). Ellis had a career year where he had unsustainable shooting percentages and overall was silent for long stretches. Ellis is starting to take Rinne's spot in most overrated Nashville player right now.

 

[Volica]

Calgary isn't a very good team for having 3 defenseman in the top 20

When the 4-5-6 & the two goalies are AHL caliber for most of the year... not many teams would be considered good.

 

[Volica]

That didn't stop Chicago when they had a solid D group the last couple years.

They also had Quenneville who played his bottom pair a total of 13 minutes combined a night, and Crawford, a goalie who can actually make a save + belongs in the NHL