Speculation: Dougie Hamilton and the Logic Train

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SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
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The facts:
  1. Dougy is likely the most valuable asset Calgary has to offer.
  2. Calgary has a surplus of right hand shot D-men.
  3. Stone and Brodie have modified NTC's
  4. Selling on Hamonic right now would not get a fair return.
  5. Dougy was not happy with how Freddy was treated.

The Speculation:
  1. The Ottawa trip was likely the start of marketing Dougy. Dorion likes the idea of replacing Karlsson with somebody of near the same pedigree that has a very cost effective contract.
  2. Tre is counting on teams like the Leafs, Buffalo, Montreal, and Columbus to get in on the bidding to drive up the return.
  3. The return for Dougy will be a Hoffman and a first, Nylander and one of Kapanen, or Conor Brown with a second, or ORielly/ or Okposo and Sam Reinhart with a second.
Tre has been noticeably cagey for the last couple weeks and recently mentioned some big changes were on the way. Nothing would be bigger than moving Dougy. Dougy in many ways gave up on the team after his brother was traded. Offensively he ramped things up but that is more for his benefit.

Dougy is a star but he is the most logical move going into summer. He is the player that will get the first line RW the Flames need.

IMO Gio will be partnered with Rasmus in training camp as he makes his partners stars.
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
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#5 is not a fact, any speculation was due to Eric Francis being a human piece of fecal matter.
TBH Francis had no doing in that comment. In every interview done with Dougy when his brother is brought up the annoyance and frustration is written on his face.

Francis is a hack.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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TBH Francis had no doing in that comment. In every interview done with Dougy when his brother is brought up the annoyance and frustration is written on his face.

Francis is a hack.
Perhaps his annoyance is with the question? His brother is his best friend, of course he's not pleased he's gone. That's just common sense. It literally has nothing to do with the organization.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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Just to be clear Krusty, I was with you until point #5. 1 through 4, I agree with. I don't want it to happen, but I can understand why the team might go that direction.
 

SKRusty

Napalm
Jan 20, 2016
2,611
1,062
Just to be clear Krusty, I was with you until point #5. 1 through 4, I agree with. I don't want it to happen, but I can understand why the team might go that direction.
I am good with you disputing 5. In the games I watched Dougy was amazing offensively, somewhat responsible defensively but when the team need that little extra he wasn't willing to dole out the hit, block the shot, or stick up for a team mate. Instead it was left to much smaller men and Gio.

Until Freddy was traded Dougy was starting to do the extras. He was never the most physical but he had started doing more.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,442
14,717
Victoria
I would say 1 through 3 are facts. 4 and 5 are not facts, and belong in the section below. Dougie was not happy when his brother placed on waivers and he was asked to talk about it. That's a fact. Doesn't mean anything regarding his relationship with the organization at all, because it could (and probably would) be the case even if he thought it was the right move for the team. Also, we have no idea what Hamonic's value would be around the league. After he settled in, he was a very effective defenceman for the Flames, and he's on a good contract with two years left. I'm not saying we should trade him; just in principle, 4 is not a fact.

Also, "Dougie in many ways gave up on the team after his brother was traded" is a completely wild accusation that is likely wrong in many more places than just the last four words. He and Gio never stopped being beasts on the blueline throughout the season, and his offence started to tick up towards the end of the year. I'll never forget that (at the time seemingly huge) goal he scored against Anaheim to win the game in the last minute, and how stoked he was. There is zero evidence to support the notion of Dougie giving up on the team. The only real negative aspect to his second half was the amount of penalties he took, but that could just as easily be an argument for increased urgency and desperation in his play.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
56,185
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Padded Room
I'd say facts are:

1. Hamilton is a very valuable piece on the trade market.
2. Flames have a surplus of NHL ready/quality RH defensemen. (The farm club really only has Andersson)
3. Stone & Brodie have limited NTCs
4. Hamonic plays a different style of game in comparison to the rest of our defensemen.

I'd make the following assumptions:
1. Hamilton is our best chance to get another legitimate 1st line talent
2. Hamonic is unlikely to be moved due to being a different style of defenseman
3. Giordano is unlikely to be moved due to being captain/team leader
 
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Rockmorton

Registered User
Oct 26, 2011
683
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The facts:
  1. Dougy is likely the most valuable asset Calgary has to offer.
  2. Calgary has a surplus of right hand shot D-men.
  3. Stone and Brodie have modified NTC's
  4. Selling on Hamonic right now would not get a fair return.
  5. Dougy was not happy with how Freddy was treated.

The Speculation:
  1. The Ottawa trip was likely the start of marketing Dougy. Dorion likes the idea of replacing Karlsson with somebody of near the same pedigree that has a very cost effective contract.
  2. Tre is counting on teams like the Leafs, Buffalo, Montreal, and Columbus to get in on the bidding to drive up the return.
  3. The return for Dougy will be a Hoffman and a first, Nylander and one of Kapanen, or Conor Brown with a second, or ORielly/ or Okposo and Sam Reinhart with a second.
Tre has been noticeably cagey for the last couple weeks and recently mentioned some big changes were on the way. Nothing would be bigger than moving Dougy. Dougy in many ways gave up on the team after his brother was traded. Offensively he ramped things up but that is more for his benefit.

Dougy is a star but he is the most logical move going into summer. He is the player that will get the first line RW the Flames need.

IMO Gio will be partnered with Rasmus in training camp as he makes his partners stars.

Don’t see Dougie being moved. Creates too big of a hole. Sure they have a lot of RHD’s, but none have top line, stud potential. They’d be taking a hell of a risk that Brodie is going to return to his past form. If they trade Dougie and Brodie continues to regress, you’ve almost derailed the rebuild. Then the D becomes patchwork, mich like the offense is now. Trying to plug holes with inferior pieces.

Almost immediately after trading him, a top line, RH offensive minded D would be at the top of their wish list. Barring a dumb/desperate GM, you just don’t trade a legit #1 RHD like Dougie.
 

Mr Snrub

I like the way Snrub thinks!
Oct 12, 2016
5,713
2,410
While I don't support trading Hamilton as I don't feel that we have another surefire NHL top pairing guy under 30 (I realise some people disagree, but I don't think Brodie or Hamonic are anywhere near Dougie's level), I'll humour the trades.

Hoffman and Ottawa's first (from Pittsburgh): I personally would be very unhappy with this return. Dougie is a way bigger piece than Hoffman as it pertains to the success of a roster - top pairing defenseman > second-line winger. Hoffman has had good years offensively, but can't demand a return like Hamilton, even with the first attached. In addition, I do think we need to add a skilled RHS to make the forward core more dangerous. I'm not obsessed with handedness like some people but you can't deny that a great right shot is a good asset for any forward group and something the Flames are lacking.

Nylander and one of Brown or Kapanen: I like Nylander so much that I might do this, even considering how important Dougie is. I don't care much about either Brown or Kapanen but Nylander has a pretty great chance at becoming a truly unbelievable forward.

O'Reilly/Okposo + Reinhart + Buffalo's 2nd round pick: I think quality for quantity trades rarely work, I would love to see Reinhart out here though. Overall it's not awful, but I would want more of a sure thing/someone who can currently impact a roster like Dougie does than the maybe that Reinhart is. O'Reilly or Okposo are a good start but I'd consider Reinhart to be the major piece coming back and that's a problem.

I should also add that I think Dougie is significantly more valuable than Hamonic, all due respect to what the guy does and the hole he fills on any given roster - Dougie is just another story entirely. And given what we gave up for Hamonic, I think it's reasonable that we ought to be taking home a huge amount for Dougie if we were to trade him, well above any of the listed proposals. Teams don't just come into a player like him.
 
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Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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Anything less than a Mark Stone or Marner calibre player in return for Hamilton is unacceptable. Quality >> Quantity

I'm okay with moving Hamilton for the right return but I question whether Treliving would move any of his top four defenceman given the things he's said/done.
 
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Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
37,549
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Calgary
What if Dougie is the topline RW that we have needed this whole time?

giphy.gif
 

The Gnome

Registered User
May 17, 2010
4,678
740
Calgary
Do not trade Hamilton, he's a rare bread, and you'll never find that player again unless you have a four leaf clover and a horseshoe up your ass. If you want a forward upgrade not via FA, I'd rather package Fox+Bennett, or Brodie+Bennett if Valimaki is ready (which is unlikely). Either way, Hamilton should not be traded, it will not be worth it and his offensive dominance from the point will be missed. Imagine if we actually had a functional PP and he was on it for most of the year, his numbers would be Donald Trump huuuuuge.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,442
14,717
Victoria
Do not trade Hamilton, he's a rare bread, and you'll never find that player again unless you have a four leaf clover and a horseshoe up your ass. If you want a forward upgrade not via FA, I'd rather package Fox+Bennett, or Brodie+Bennett if Valimaki is ready (which is unlikely). Either way, Hamilton should not be traded, it will not be worth it and his offensive dominance from the point will be missed. Imagine if we actually had a functional PP and he was on it for most of the year, his numbers would be Donald Trump huuuuuge.

Marble rye? :popcorn:
 
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Flames Fanatic

Mediocre
Aug 14, 2008
13,329
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Cochrane
I don't want to give up Dougie, I think it would be a huge mistake. There was a reason we were all salivating around him before we traded for him and why I was vocal that Boston would be stupid to give him up.

That being said, the logic isn't wrong. Doesn't mean I want it to necessarily be the path we take though. If we can get a Mark Stone caliber player back I'm less frustrated at the idea of moving Dougie.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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You don't trade Hamilton because you have too many RHD. That's like saying you don't date Kate Upton because she's too pretty.

If you're trading Hamilton and don't absolutely pillage / fleece the other team in the process, might as well blow it all up and try again.
Actually it would be like dumping Kate Upton because you also have Mila Kunis and the Wendy's Girl
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,957
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I'm frustrated with the logic of this thread when there's so much opinion being labeled as objective fact AND the name of the main player being discussed is spelled incorrectly in both the OP and thread title.
 

Lunatik

Normal is an illusion.
Oct 12, 2012
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I'm frustrated with the logic of this thread when there's so much opinion being labeled as objective fact AND the name of the main player being discussed is spelled incorrectly in both the OP and thread title.
I hope my logic and spelling didn't frustrate you as much haha
 

CamPopplestone

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
2,515
2,895
I'd honestly try Dougie at forward before trading him lol, unless it was an absolute fleecing of a gm.
 
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