Doughty Hit on Carrier (UPD: Suspended One Game)

[HanSolo]

A player with the puck is expected to have his head on a swivel, hence keep your head up.

It does not excuse hits that target high that result in impact to the head. Carrier was trying to settle the puck so he took a moment to look at it. But that is facially and substantively irrelevant. Doughty was on full tilt as a result of Carrier's constant physicality and he didn't restrain himself and try to minimize risk. Throwing hits that high carries a risk of impact to the head regardless if it's thrown head on, from the side, or from behind. Doughty did nothing to mitigate that risk and the onus was on him.

This excuse of "his head was down" is absurd. When I crashed into a woman who slammed the breaks in the middle of a freeway on ramp, no one cared that she brake checked me and I was responsible for her damages as the one who caused the damage to her car with mine. Doughty had every opportunity to hit Carrier as cleanly as every other hit that had been thrown in that game. He didn't and it's not Carrier's fault.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I mean, this didn't even get a hearing, so I can't imagine it would be anything more than a slap on the wrist and a talking too.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He'll get fined, because it's the playoffs. Regular season he might get a game or two. People that are calling for blood may not realize Doughty doesn't have rap sheet, people just hate him because he's a yapper and agitator.

I see pretty clear contact before the contact with the head. Certainly reckless hit and Drew knew he was throwing a big one, but no way he was hunting for Carrier's head. He was just trying to blow him up with the ol 'take his number and get him back later' given all the runs that were going at him.

Frankly all this talk about blindside is total horseshit, if Carrier, who was amazingly strong and aware all night, had no idea the slot defenseman, last man back, coming right at him wasn't there, yes, that IS a keep your head up moment. He saw Drew. He just didn't react and tried to be cute with the puck while DD went through him. I'm sure Doughty expected him to protect himself better given VGK players were good at that all night (until they realized the didn't have the puck then suddenly became the worst skaters on the rink, someone get Carrier some boardshorts). He didn't, and that's the result.

Well this sets up nicely for the drama going forward.

Doughty was already a target but after this hit and the discussion with the VGK bench, you know this just got ramped up a notch.

I expect lots of soft and cross corner dumps into Drew's corner going forward. Cant' wait.

Frankly I'm not sure they can hit him more

 

[Muston Atthews]

It does not excuse hits that target high that result in impact to the head. Carrier was trying to settle the puck so he took a moment to look at it. But that is facially and substantively irrelevant. Doughty was on full tilt as a result of Carrier's constant physicality and he didn't restrain himself and try to minimize risk. Throwing hits that high carries a risk of impact to the head regardless if it's thrown head on, from the side, or from behind. Doughty did nothing to mitigate that risk and the onus was on him.

This excuse of "his head was down" is absurd. When I crashed into a woman who slammed the breaks in the middle of a freeway on ramp, no one cared that she brake checked me and I was responsible for her damages as the one who caused the damage to her car with mine. Doughty had every opportunity to hit Carrier as cleanly as every other hit that had been thrown in that game. He didn't and it's not Carrier's fault.

You lost me when you tried to compare a hockey collision to a car crash. This hit has always been clean (except when they added the blindside part for one year) and there is onus on the puck carrier not to put himself in a vulnerable spot.

 

[fsanford]

Duhhrrr, it's only a conspiracy if everyone didn't see it. Try and tell me what I said didn't happen, and watch you get laughed off the boards.

Blah blah blah, league wants the Kings to win, its playoff hockey you fool. I watched several games last night, lots of liberties taken by all teams, hooks, interference, again there is this myth, that only reason Kings win, is because the league wants them too.

Actually the better story is Vegas winning it all, it would be one of the greatest stories in team sports.

But go on with your grassy knoll theories.

By the way when the Ducks take the ice tonight watch how they will take opportunities to hook, grab, interfere. And if they get away with it more power to them. Because they understand how the playoff's work and will play within the parameters allowed

 

[Anglesmith]

I mean, this didn't even get a hearing, so I can't imagine it would be anything more than a slap on the wrist and a talking too.

The feature of this hit that made it not suspendable (the player's sudden, drastic movement immediately prior to contact) isn't present in the Doughty/Carrier hit, so it's hard to use this as a basis for anything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wait, what? Doughty didn't give him enough time to look? Look at what? He's entering the offensive zone ffs, what do you think is going to happen when you do that?

Shouldn't have been aiming that high? Ok, fine, he will aim at his ankles next....

Man, some of the hyperbole in this post alone is enough to make people's head spin, you would think Doughty jumped out of the air with a lightning bolt and tagged Carrier on the shin....

Carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up, just like Doughty has a responsiblity to time the hit correctly and angle the hit correctly, neither did that, but man....cmon

Yeah I'm not usually a 'keep your head up' guy but if you're dangling through the offensive zone directly towards the dude you've been running all game, you know what to expect.

I still think Drew could have handled it better, but pretending Carrier is a perfect angel victim with no responsibility here is silly too. DOPS will acknowledge that, Carrier bent over staring at the puck trying to make a move through a guy.

 

[Freudian]

When they talk about principal point of contact in this context they don't mean what is the first thing that gets hit but what is the main target for the hit. So you can first connect with the shoulder and then the head and the head still be the principal point of contact.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Wait, what? Doughty didn't give him enough time to look? Look at what? He's entering the offensive zone ffs, what do you think is going to happen when you do that?

Shouldn't have been aiming that high? Ok, fine, he will aim at his ankles next....

Man, some of the hyperbole in this post alone is enough to make people's head spin, you would think Doughty jumped out of the air with a lightning bolt and tagged Carrier on the shin....

Carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up, just like Doughty has a responsiblity to time the hit correctly and angle the hit correctly, neither did that, but man....cmon

Carrier has no such responsibility according to the rulebook. Carrier's responsibility is to not change his head's position immediately prior to or simultaneous to contact or if he put himself in a position where head contact was unavoidable. That is simply not the case here. By no definition that one can actually point to in the actual rulebook that governs the game did Carrier have a responsibility that he failed to live up to. This situation is all on Doughty. It's an illegal check to the head and he deserves to be suspended for game two but I doubt the league has the brass to do it.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yeah I'm not usually a 'keep your head up' guy but if you're dangling through the offensive zone directly towards the dude you've been running all game, you know what to expect.

I still think Drew could have handled it better, but pretending Carrier is a perfect angel victim with no responsibility here is silly too. DOPS will acknowledge that, Carrier bent over staring at the puck trying to make a move through a guy.

Agreed, Drew screwed up on the hit, no one is arguing that, the point of contention that I have is that Carrier should be able to skate through there just because his head is down, thats not hockey ffs

 

[Il Stugotz]

Contact with the head is legal if it’s unavoidable. Typically, those unavoidable hits are “North-South” where a player hits another player through the center of the body and the head gets struck too. On a north-south hit, the hitter really needs to launch to pick the head. On a hit from the side, it’s easier to make the head take the force of the hit without launching.

As a test, can you imagine Doughty’s hit differently in such a way Carrier’s shoulder and body take the brunt of the contact? Of course you can, since Doughty picked the head either due to recklessness or due to him being angry about getting run a few times.

 

[Daz28]

Blah blah blah, league wants the Kings to win, its playoff hockey you fool. I watched several games last night, lots of liberties taken by all teams, hooks, interference, again there is this myth, that only reason Kings win, is because the league wants them too.

Actually the better story is Vegas winning it all, it would be one of the greatest stories in team sports.

But go on with your grassy knoll theories.

They absolutely relax the rules. I'm not even saying they favor the Kings, but they wanted them in that game last night. The Kings first cup was won by them allowing the Kings(and other teams too) to interfere on every dump in. The second cup, I think they won as the best team. I'll admit that even though I hate the Kings. Since then they haven't been winning much of anything, so in no way am I saying they're the league's darlings.

The Ducks do not, and have not ever gotten away with anything. Not calling penalties is going to help them immensely in the playoffs. I don't think the refs can use their bias against them in the playoffs w/o making it obvious, cuz everyone is getting away with murder so far.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Good.
Love DD but you can't do that.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Carrier has no such responsibility according to the rulebook. Carrier's responsibility is to not change his head's position immediately prior to or simultaneous to contact or if he put himself in a position where head contact was unavoidable. That is simply not the case here. By no definition that one can actually point to in the actual rulebook that governs the game did Carrier have a responsibility that he failed to live up to. This situation is all on Doughty. It's an illegal check to the head and he deserves to be suspended for game two but I doubt the league has the brass to do it.

LOL the league has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR, players are responsible for not putting themselves into a vulnerable position,

That is why there are arguments about boarding calls, players turning at the last minute, puts themselves into a vulnerable situation..

 

[Pinkfloyd]

LOL the league has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR, players are responsible for not putting themselves into a vulnerable position,

That is why there are arguments about boarding calls, players turning at the last minute, puts themselves into a vulnerable situation..

That first line only applies to full body checks so you're just wrong and don't have an understanding of the rules.

 

[HomeAndHome]

My opinion,

Carrier was leaning forward to control the puck, Doughty sees that Carrier is vulnerable and wants to send a message that he can throw hits too. The hit would be fine if Doughty went through Carrier, instead he took the angle through the front of Carriers body (whether that is to minimize his own damage or just mistimed), which in turn lead to Doughty coming into contact with Carriers head.

So, yes, Doughty meant to hit him hard, but no he wasn't targeting Carriers head. I don't think it was malicious, just reckless. I think Doughty deserves to sit for a game but I'd assume he will only see a fine as apparently in playoffs players health don't matter as much as regular season. The responsibility is Doughty's here, he didn't mean to hit him in the head, but he did in fact make contact with Carriers head. If the NHL is serious about head injuries they should think long and hard about the message they want to send with this.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

I mean, this didn't even get a hearing, so I can't imagine it would be anything more than a slap on the wrist and a talking too.

Well thats because Giordano lines up Aho perfectly for a crushing shoulder hit and Aho tries to dangle back and around Giordano.

Thats on Aho not Giordano

 

[HanSolo]

Wait, what? Doughty didn't give him enough time to look? Look at what? He's entering the offensive zone ffs, what do you think is going to happen when you do that?

Shouldn't have been aiming that high? Ok, fine, he will aim at his ankles next....

Man, some of the hyperbole in this post alone is enough to make people's head spin, you would think Doughty jumped out of the air with a lightning bolt and tagged Carrier on the shin....

Carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up, just like Doughty has a responsiblity to time the hit correctly and angle the hit correctly, neither did that, but man....cmon

Accuses me of overabundance of hyperbole by throwing an overabundance of hyperbole.

As to the substance of the post itself, no I don't think players expect to be plastered from the side and up to the head when they're trying to pass off the puck in the neutral zone just before the offensive zone.

It's interesting you're now being glib about the high nature of the hit when you've already conceded that point in this thread.

Really not sure where I'm being hyperbolic, as even fans defending the hit recognize it was high, but all right.

Carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up generally, yes. But when a puck is rolling and bouncing you kind of have to look at it to settle it. As long as we're getting into bombastic high concept hyperbole, what is Carrier supposed to do? Never look at the puck unless it's in his line of sight with the head up?

The onus to minimize risk to the head of the guy you're hitting is not the same responsibility as one has to keep their heads up. That's like saying a stabbing victim has as much responsibility to try to evade and hide as the shooter has to guy holding the knife has to not try to stab. It's absurd.

If Carrier's head is up he doesn't get hit there? Yeah...probably not. You know what's an even more sure fire way to make sure no one makes dangerous contact to Carrier's head? If no one throws a high hit at his head. Carrier could spend a whole game with his down without getting hit there, the event of throwing a high hit is the outcome determinative act here.

Looking down to try to settle the puck for a second or two is not an invitation for Doughty to fire away. And equating the repsonsibilites between the two men is some serious mental gymnastics.

 

[Daz28]

I mean, this didn't even get a hearing, so I can't imagine it would be anything more than a slap on the wrist and a talking too.

...and that is a sin. That was filthy.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That first line only applies to full body checks so you're just wrong and don't have an understanding of the rules.

LOL sure.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Welcome to playoff hockey, Vegas

 

[fsanford]

They absolutely relax the rules. I'm not even saying they favor the Kings, but they wanted them in that game last night. The Kings first cup was won by them allowing the Kings(and other teams too) to interfere on every dump in. The second cup, I think they won as the best team. I'll admit that even though I hate the Kings. Since then they haven't been winning much of anything, so in no way am I saying they're the league's darlings.

Fair enough, but again you watch your team tonight, this is not their first rodeo, they will do the exact same thing seeing what they can get away with. Especially given they are down their top D man. That is the smart thing to do

 

[Pinkfloyd]

LOL sure.

Well, if your interpretation of the rules was actually correct, NHL wouldn't have called Doughty for a hearing. So there's that...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Accuses me of overabundance of hyperbole by throwing an overabundance of hyperbole.

As to the substance of the post itself, no I don't think players expect to be plastered from the side and up to the head when they're trying to pass off the puck in the neutral zone just before the offensive zone.

It's interesting you're now being glib about the high nature of the hit when you've already conceded that point in this thread.

Really not sure where I'm being hyperbolic, as even fans defending the hit recognize it was high, but all right.

Carrier has a responsibility to keep his head up generally, yes. But when a puck is rolling and bouncing you kind of have to look at it to settle it. As long as we're getting into bombastic high concept hyperbole, what is Carrier supposed to do? Never look at the puck unless it's in his line of sight with the head up?

The onus to minimize risk to the head of the guy you're hitting is not the same responsibility as one has to keep their heads up. That's like saying a stabbing victim has as much responsibility to try to evade and hide as the shooter has to guy holding the knife has to not try to stab. It's absurd.

If Carrier's head is up he doesn't get hit there? Yeah...probably not. You know what's an even more sure fire way to make sure no one makes dangerous contact to Carrier's head? If no one throws a high hit at his head. Carrier could spend a whole game with his down without getting hit there, the event of throwing a high hit is the outcome determinative act here.

Looking down to try to settle the puck for a second or two is not an invitation for Doughty to fire away. And equating the repsonsibilites between the two men is some serious mental gymnastics.

Are you seriously saying this hit occurred or started in the neutral zone? If that's your argument why Carrier should have his head down, I think we are done here, that's so far from the truth it's mind boggling, hell he was hit near the faceoff dot in the offensive zone, pick your head up, that simple.

 

[HanSolo]

My opinion,

Carrier was leaning forward to control the puck, Doughty sees that Carrier is vulnerable and wants to send a message that he can throw hits too. The hit would be fine if Doughty went through Carrier, instead he took the angle through the front of Carriers body (whether that is to minimize his own damage or just mistimed), which in turn lead to Doughty coming into contact with Carriers head.

So, yes, Doughty meant to hit him hard, but no he wasn't targeting Carriers head. I don't think it was malicious, just reckless. I think Doughty deserves to sit for a game but I'd assume he will only see a fine as apparently in playoffs players health don't matter as much as regular season. The responsibility is Doughty's here, he didn't mean to hit him in the head, but he did in fact make contact with Carriers head. If the NHL is serious about head injuries they should think long and hard about the message they want to send with this.

Agree with every word of this post.

I don't think Doughty meant to hit the head but it's his responsibility as the man throwing the check, NOT to hit the head.