Doug Wickenheiser
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Iron Mike Sharpe
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- Dec 6, 2017
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Nope, none of that stuff - in fact, later in his career with the Blues he was known to be a clutch guy with good hockey sense. I think there were a few factors, but they were more external/cultural than anything else:
1. In the early 80s, 18-20 year olds were typically stepping right up from junior & playing for the big club, with no development time in the AHL, they were just mostly expected to essentially slot into their projected positions immediately. The expectations
placed upon young players at times during this period were sometimes unrealistic (see Brian Lawton as the perfect example). Basically, they were pushing him too fast.
2. The Habs had long coveted a big center, & they drafted Wickenheiser over Quebecois superstar Denis Savard. Fans were really upset, which added to the pressure on Wickenheiser. They would actually boo him in the Forum.
3. The Habs were arguably the deepest team in the league already at all positions, & Wickenhesier had to compete with several established veterans who could play center, including Pierre Larouche, Pierre Mondou, Doug Risebrough & Doug Jarvis, as well as against another young player in Keith Acton, who actually spent two years developing in Nova Scotia before cracking the Habs' lineup.
4. The Habs were a cesspool of drama for a few years, in the locker room & in management, which probably didn't help.
tony d
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The fact he was picked ahead of Savard by Montreal was the biggest thing. He had 276 pts. in 556 GP which is a decent career but not good for a #1 overall pick.
DowntownBooster
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Not only was it surprising that Savard went third, it's hard to believe Paul Coffey wasn't chosen until sixth overall.
He had skills except mostly for....speed. He was not fast compared to all the Habs talent he played with. He was not a No. 1 talent (Maybe top 15) and Montreal over reached taking him first overall because they did want that BIG center. (Think Jean Béliveau) Fans in Montreal knew what they had given up not taking Denis Savard and were pissed off - rightfully so (at Management).
Jim MacDonald
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- Oct 7, 2017
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I wonder if a lot of people would agree that Wickenheiser's best moment would've been his overtime winner, I believe it was maybe Game 6, in either the Campbell Conference Final or Campbell Conference Semifinal for the Blues against the Calgary Flames. I want to say too this game is referred to in St. Louis or in general hockey circles as the "Monday Night Miracle." Please correct me on this if needed as I was a kid at the time! ha ha!
The Panther
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Montreal was probably the toughest team to be drafted #1 to in those days (I'm talking from late-70s to late-80s). They were a very conservatively managed team, where veteran experience and defense won out over youth and offense -- opposite to the general trend of those times for most franchises. So that probably didn't help. If Savard had gone there in 1980, I don't think he'd have had too many 100-point seasons, if any. (Exactly 1 Canadien has had a 100-point season since 1981, and it happened 32 years ago). Of course, he'd have been a way better performer than Wickenheiser, but I don't think he'd have made the same impact as in Chicago.
But obviously it was mostly down to issues with Wickenheiser himself. I have vague memories of seeing him play in the late-80s, and my memory and the clips I've seen suggest he was a extremely average player. Maybe he just wasn't the super-competitive/hungry type of guy, and maybe he also was put off by the pressure in Montreal and just never really recovered.
But obviously it was mostly down to issues with Wickenheiser himself. I have vague memories of seeing him play in the late-80s, and my memory and the clips I've seen suggest he was a extremely average player. Maybe he just wasn't the super-competitive/hungry type of guy, and maybe he also was put off by the pressure in Montreal and just never really recovered.
1986. STL hangs a banner of a lit candle for Wick in the rafters. I watched that game.
TheMoreYouKnow
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Isn't the most obvious answer that it was simply a projection mistake due to overrating size? It's not like that was that a rare mistake..the top end of the drafts in the 80s and 90s are littered with big centers who had underwhelming careers (ranging from total bust a la Neil Brady to guys who had OK careers but never quite lived up to the hype a la Gratton or Primeau).
Canadiens1958
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I seem to recall a serious knee injury almost right away during his rookie season severely hampering his development.
Still, the fans were furious with Grundman for not picking Savard over Wickenheiser.
One of the two #1 overall picks the Colorado Rockies traded away in advance that did not pan out for the team that stole it. The other being Gord Kluzak.
Laphroaig
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I'm not really sure why Wickenheiser didn't pan out but I think it was a perfectly defensible pick at the time. He scored 170 points in 71 games in his draft year compared to Denis Savard's 181 points in 72 games in the much higher scoring Quebec League. It should come as no surprise that Montreal went with the larger player.
My memory is that there wasn't much of a debate about Wickenheiser versus Savard prior to the draft. I remember it being more of a debate about Wickenheiser versus Dave Babych who was ultimately chosen second.
My memory is that there wasn't much of a debate about Wickenheiser versus Savard prior to the draft. I remember it being more of a debate about Wickenheiser versus Dave Babych who was ultimately chosen second.
I remember it being quite a debate at the time, especially in Quebec, where Savard would have taken over from Lafleur as THE next great Quebecois player for MTL. Most considered Savard to be the most exciting player, anyway. We'll never know how good Wickenheiser might've been.
Says who?????
He was ranked #1 by The Hockey News. Most teams would have taken him 1st overall.
Who would the guys be that would have been ranked ahead of him according to you maybe top 15?
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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bobby smith was considered one of the greatest prospects of all time and wickenheiser looks decently similar to him. twenty fewer points in ten more games played, but a little over year younger (they were different leagues but wickenheiser's 18 year old season outscored smith's by 35 points in seven more games). both big guys with two-way games, both captained their teams to the memorial cup tournament, both led their leagues in scoring in their draft year, both named CHL player of the year.
at the time of the 1980 draft, smith had just finished his second year in the league, where he scored at a 109 point pace, while leading the formerly bottom dwelling north stars to the third round of the playoffs. he won the calder the year before, leading the team in scoring and helping them improve more than 20 points in the standings.
on paper, it doesn't look like an egregious pick but i never saw the guy.
at the time of the 1980 draft, smith had just finished his second year in the league, where he scored at a 109 point pace, while leading the formerly bottom dwelling north stars to the third round of the playoffs. he won the calder the year before, leading the team in scoring and helping them improve more than 20 points in the standings.
on paper, it doesn't look like an egregious pick but i never saw the guy.
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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You feel a little bad for Wick, he died when he was 37 and you can never bring up his name without talking about Denis Savard. That's understandable, he didn't have a good career for someone who was 1st overall.
That being said, I'll share a good moment for him. He scored the overtime goal in the classic "Monday Night Miracle" in 1986. That was the Flames vs. Blues Game 6 where the Blues rallied with 9 minutes left to overcome a 5-2 deficit and then win it in overtime. Wickenheiser scored the overtime winner. The Flames won Game 7 but it still was impressive, and who knows, if the Blues win Game 7 they could have beaten Montreal for all we know in the final.
That being said, I'll share a good moment for him. He scored the overtime goal in the classic "Monday Night Miracle" in 1986. That was the Flames vs. Blues Game 6 where the Blues rallied with 9 minutes left to overcome a 5-2 deficit and then win it in overtime. Wickenheiser scored the overtime winner. The Flames won Game 7 but it still was impressive, and who knows, if the Blues win Game 7 they could have beaten Montreal for all we know in the final.
Says me.... after seeing his play all during his first year in the NHL He was slow and was nothing special from day one right up until he was traded.
Both Savard and Babych come to mind right off. Savard was a no brainer.
Thenameless
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- Apr 29, 2014
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Bobby Smith really was the better of the two players. He didn't put up the gaudy numbers that were expected of him, so he may have underperformed a bit based on his talent.
mrhockey193195
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Not to distract from Wickenheiser himself, but I really think Montreal not drafting Savard #1 is one of the great what-ifs in hockey history. Imagine a mid-80s core of Savard, Chelios, Roy, with an experienced Robinson and Bob Gainey as the leaders, and complimentary stars like Smith and Naslund and Carbonneau. Then throw in the additional what-if of not trading Langway.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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oh yeah, i wasn't suggesting that wickenheiser was as good of a prospect as smith. i just meant that seeing what smith did up to 1980, i can see how you could talk yourself into wickenheiser.
Thenameless
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- Apr 29, 2014
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Yes, I agree. As an NHL GM, I'd probably get burned "reaching" for that big centerman in the draft. Savard was a small, fast, flashy player from the Q, and this style often did not translate well into the NHL's bruising style of play.
The Panther
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I sometimes feel that if the Flames had won that game 6 in St. Louis that they would have gone on to win the 1986 Stanley Cup. As you remind us, all they had to do was hang on to a 5-2 lead in the third period of a playoff game.
But somehow they blew it, and were forced into an energy-draining game 7 back in Calgary, which left them one day off between game 7 and game 1 of the Finals. They rode the momentum to a game 1 Finals win over Montreal, but then fatigue and wear & tear caught up to them, and they lost game 2 in overtime, after which Montreal never looked back.
In my opinion, Wickenheiser's OT goal cost Calgary the '86 Cup.
