Doug Wickenheiser - ruined by Montreal?

ForsbergForever

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May 19, 2004
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Infamously drafted first overall in 1980 over Denis Savard, Wickenheiser was hated by Montreal coach Claude Ruel seemingly for the simple reason that he was not Savard. Over his first two seasons, he was a healthy scratch for numerous games and did not dress for a single playoff game in his four seasons in Montreal. So my question is, after being a big bodied (6'1/195 lbs) supremely talented center with the Regina Pats, could Doug have developed into an NHL superstar in the right situation? For instance, what if the Habs did draft Savard first overall in 1980 and the Winnipeg Jets take Wickenheiser with the next pick... Wick proabably would have been the team's first line center right out of the gate and been given every opportunity to shine albeit for a much weaker team. Would this early experience have been enough to set him up for greater success or was his skillset never really at a level to excel in the NHL regardless?
 

Marc the Habs Fan

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Nov 30, 2002
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I wasn't alive at the time, but it seems pretty clear reading Habs history books that Wickenheiser was unable to deal with the intense fan/media pressure of being taken ahead of Denis Savard (who became a star immediately for the Hawks) and it just became an impossible situation as time went on. It started awfully for him with the season opener against Chicago in 1980 as he was scratched and Savard picked up a goal and an assist. It just built and built from that point on.
 

c9777666

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Aug 31, 2016
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The Winnipeg possibility is interesting.

On one hand, he might have been more embraced in Winnipeg than Montreal.... but he might have pushed them out of the worst record and maybe they don't end up with Hawerchuk.
 

reckoning

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Jan 4, 2005
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Yes, Ruel wanted Montreal to draft Savard, and he was never impressed with what he saw from Wickenheiser in Montreal. But there's no way he can be blamed for how Wickenheiser's career turned out.

Wickenheiser was still a young man of 22 when he was traded to St. Louis. Ron Caron took him on as a personal project to finally reach his potential, but despite a few promising moments, by the the '87 playoffs he was getting little icetime other than killing penalties, and was put on waivers after the season.

I don't know if the issue was Wickenheiser not being able to cope with pressure, or if the scouts had simply overrated him. Things might have turned out differently had he been drafted a few years earlier, and could have spent his first full pro year in Nova Scotia with Al MacNeil preparing him for the NHL.
 

Canadiens1958

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Nov 30, 2007
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Yes, Ruel wanted Montreal to draft Savard, and he was never impressed with what he saw from Wickenheiser in Montreal. But there's no way he can be blamed for how Wickenheiser's career turned out.

Wickenheiser was still a young man of 22 when he was traded to St. Louis. Ron Caron took him on as a personal project to finally reach his potential, but despite a few promising moments, by the the '87 playoffs he was getting little icetime other than killing penalties, and was put on waivers after the season.

I don't know if the issue was Wickenheiser not being able to cope with pressure, or if the scouts had simply overrated him. Things might have turned out differently had he been drafted a few years earlier, and could have spent his first full pro year in Nova Scotia with Al MacNeil preparing him for the NHL.

Was never able to raise his skating skills to the level required from a top 6 NHL center, especially playing for the Canadiens. Some juniors make the transition, some do not.
 
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The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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I believe the scouts simply over-rated him, and Wickenheiser was simply not a great NHL player. Yes, Montreal wasn't the easiest type of team for a young forward to come in on, but Wickenheiser had 4 seasons in St.Louis to prove himself if Montreal was the problem. I think this shows that Wickenheiser was the problem.
 

Michael Whiteacre

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Dec 25, 2016
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I read this a while ago and found it pretty informative with regard to Wickenheiser:

http://www.habsworld.net/2008/06/the-forgotten-habs-doug-wickenheiser/

A player who isn't as good as projected goes into the highest pressure situation in the NHL with a coach who didn't want him, all while his main forward competitor for the #1 spot, from Quebec no less, is instantly a star. Obviously a recipe for trouble.

And then Doug Wickenheiser winds up finishing his short NHL career bouncing around with the Vancouver Canucks, New York Rangers and the Washington Capitals despite being briefly acquired by the Hartford Whalers from St. Louis on the same day Hartford dealt him to Vancouver in the Waiver Draft.

And even if he ultimately never lived up to the hype heaped upon him after Montreal drafted him instead of Denis Savard, Wickenheiser still had about two solid seasons with the Canadiens in '81-'82 and '82-'83, and even one more solid season for the Blues in '84-'85. Not bad for a borderline star pivot.

1981-82 Montreal Canadiens: 12 goals/23 assists = 35 points with a +/- rating of +18, 43 PIM, 94 shots on goal in 56 games played.

1982-83 Montreal Canadiens: 25 goals/30 assists = 55 points with a +/- rating of +22, 49 PIM, 160 shots on goal in 78 games played.

1984-85 St. Louis Blues: 23 goals/20 assists = 43 points with a +/- rating of +9, 36 PIM, 155 shots on goal in 68 games played.

Thus, two of Wickenheiser's three best seasons have to be at least with Montreal, even if Montreal's a passionate hockey town with the French-Canadian speaking media and (much like Toronto and the N.Y. Rangers) a much more stressful hockey environmental atmosphere.
 

double5son10

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Jan 20, 2011
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Was Wickenheiser overrated by the scouts? He was rather unanimously thought to be the best junior player coming out of Regina, and Bryan Murray, his coach with the Pats, was effusive in his praise. He wasn't the skater that Savard was, but who is? Regardless of whatever else one can say, Montreal handled him terribly. Larry Robinson has stated that Wickenheiser was, if not ruined, at least poorly developed and used as a scapegoat by Claude Ruel. And after Ruel, Bob Berry moving him to LW for the 81-82 season, a position he had never played, certainly didn't help his development. Wickenheiser also had terrible luck w/ injuries--back injury that ended his best season in '82-83 (55pts. as a 21 yr. old. Not awful by any means), and then the injury from the hazing incident with the Blues in '84-85. Before that injury, which blew out his MCL & ACL, Jacques Demers has said he felt like Wickenheiser was on the verge of being a star. Remember he was only 23 when that happened, so I suppose there was still the possibility of him being, if not a star, then at least a really effective NHLer. Hard luck case if there ever was.
 

Michel Beauchamp

Canadiens' fan since 1958
Mar 17, 2008
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And then Doug Wickenheiser winds up finishing his short NHL career bouncing around with the Vancouver Canucks, New York Rangers and the Washington Capitals despite being briefly acquired by the Hartford Whalers from St. Louis on the same day Hartford dealt him to Vancouver in the Waiver Draft.

And even if he ultimately never lived up to the hype heaped upon him after Montreal drafted him instead of Denis Savard, Wickenheiser still had about two solid seasons with the Canadiens in '81-'82 and '82-'83, and even one more solid season for the Blues in '84-'85. Not bad for a borderline star pivot.

1981-82 Montreal Canadiens: 12 goals/23 assists = 35 points with a +/- rating of +18, 43 PIM, 94 shots on goal in 56 games played.

1982-83 Montreal Canadiens: 25 goals/30 assists = 55 points with a +/- rating of +22, 49 PIM, 160 shots on goal in 78 games played.

1984-85 St. Louis Blues: 23 goals/20 assists = 43 points with a +/- rating of +9, 36 PIM, 155 shots on goal in 68 games played.

Thus, two of Wickenheiser's three best seasons have to be at least with Montreal, even if Montreal's a passionate hockey town with the French-Canadian speaking media and (much like Toronto and the N.Y. Rangers) a much more stressful hockey environmental atmosphere.

These numbers mean nothing without context.

In 82-83, for example, he was Montréal's 9th-best point getter, 8th-best goal scorer. Keith Acton, yes Keith Acton, had 24 goals and 26 assists.
 

Bluesguru

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Aug 10, 2014
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In the 84-85 season with the Blues when he had 23 goals, I remember he was on a hot streak and was on a goal scoring streak but then he got hurt and was out for the year. That might of been his career year had he not got hurt. He was that hot.

Still, he was a very good player when he played for STL. Strong on the puck, good 2 way player, and he had some big playoff moments here.

Doug was a great guy. Very sad what happened to him.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
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and then the injury from the hazing incident with the Blues in '84-85. Before that injury, which blew out his MCL & ACL, Jacques Demers has said he felt like Wickenheiser was on the verge of being a star.

What hazing incident? What happened?
 

double5son10

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Jan 20, 2011
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What hazing incident? What happened?

"Wickenheiser's Freak Injury: Wickenheiser missed the remainder of the 1984-85 season, the entire 1985 playoffs and the first half of the 1985-86 season with complete tears of ACL and MCL in left knee, an injury suffered when he was hit by a car in the St. Louis suburb of Eureka, Missouri, on March 13, 1985. The injury happened on a day Wickenheiser and his Blues teammates had gathered for a hazing "snipe hunt" in Eureka. The victims of their prank were Gilbert Delorme and Kevin LaVallee, who were to be arrested by local authorities for violating local hunting law. While Delorme and LaVallee sat in jail, Wickenheiser and the other Blues went out for some pizza. As they exited the pizza place, the Blues players began climbing into a pickup truck. When Wickenheiser climbed up onto the truck, he fell backward into a 17-year-old driver's oncoming car, which was going no faster than 15 mph. Wickenheiser was thrown onto the car's windshield and rolled off into the street. The severe knee injury required four hours of reconstructive surgery on March 14, 1985. Wickenheiser did not return to action with the Blues until Jan. 21, 1986."

http://hockeydraftcentral.com/1980/80001.html
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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No offense to OP, but I'm tired to see that players are supposedly ruined by their team... as if the player has no incentive himself to make sure this doesn't happen (and is also exonerated from all blame). We often see this nowadays with people are just mad and plainly refuse to admit that their favorite player was a lesser light, all along.

I'd not like the Habs gave Wickenheiser the job of assisting Eddy Palchack, after all.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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I'm not saying the Habs couldn't have done better in making sure Wickenheiser develop into... whatever he could've developped into. We'll never know. But Wickenheiser never actually shown he could've developped into something more to begin with.

Now, if the thread was about John Leclair...
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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These numbers mean nothing without context.

In 82-83, for example, he was Montréal's 9th-best point getter, 8th-best goal scorer. Keith Acton, yes Keith Acton, had 24 goals and 26 assists.

hey man keith acton was a very talented offensive player who rededicated himself because he was even better as a defensive stopper.

his career year at 23: 36 goals, 52 assists, 88 points. and look at his numbers in juniors and the AHL.

but your point stands: wickenheiser was hockey's sam bowie. not as bad as one would think in retrospect, yeah at times he got unlucky with injuries, but was also a fairly average, maybe even below average, talent with a big body.
 

crobro

Registered User
Aug 8, 2008
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I recall the first time in 88 or 89 when the NHLPA mandated the NHL teams to disclose the salaries of all their players. At the bottom of the list was Doug Wickenheiser of the Washington Capitals at $33.000 per annum. The next lowest was a salary of $110.000.
 

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