Doug Jarvis Ironman

[Rick in MB]

Well no, not quite Hardyvan. As C58 & Peter9 have pointed out Scotty Bowman had a bead on Dougie Jarvis through his Junior years with the Pete's under Roger Neilson, where he logged a lot of ice-time, used in virtually all crucial situations both offensively & defensively, in his last season combining for 133 points (74-75). He was a smart player who only needed to be taught a lesson once for it to stick & was NHL ready right out of the Draft, playing years ahead of his rookie status; followed orders, which in Bowmans case were "implied" as opposed to barked, low maintenance.

When I think of Jarvis, its always with Bob Gainey, and really, combined, I dont think you'll find two smarter linemates, guys who really knew how to shut down top players & get into their heads so cleanly & effectively. I particularly enjoyed seeing them play with Rejean Houle' who was also an extremely intelligent player, responsible defensively but like Jarvis & Gainey was a complete opportunist, but in Reggies' case a guy who could put the puck away in the best tradition of the "Flying Frenchman".

So Hardyvan, to suggest Doug Jarvis wasnt "special" specifically to the Montreal Canadiens' at that time & place is to deny reality & be-littles the guys contributions, which were huge. Would you suggest the Beatles wouldve been "The Beatles" had they just stuck with Stuart Sutcliffe as their drummer instead of going with Ringo Starr?. That "just anyone" instead of Javier Bardem couldve' played the role of a psycho hitman with a bad haircut in No Country for Old Men, making that movie really click, and for which he won a Best Supporting Actor Academy Award?.

you mean pete best

 

[JSmith81x]

Two games into the 1987-88, his coach Jack Evans scratched him because the streak was getting to be too big a deal and Jarvis was "worn out" from previous seasons. Instead of coming right back into the lineup, he continued to be a scratch and never played in the NHL again. He was sent to the minors where he was also an assistant coach, and was promoted to head coach to finish out the last quarter of the season. Jack Evans was fired as Hartford's coach before the season ended.

 

[Killion]

you mean pete best

Yes Rick, Pete Best was the original drummer & Stuart Sutcliffe the bassist. Nice to know people actually read my posts after the first few sentences. I often insert deliberate errors of fact near the end in order to make sure Im not on everyones permanent ignore list. Illicit a response. I often feel like Im just posting into the etherworld & no one cares. At least, thats my excuse for that one. You buyin it?.



I

 

[Hardyvan123]

Well no, not quite Hardyvan. As C58 & Peter9 have pointed out Scotty Bowman had a bead on Dougie Jarvis through his Junior years with the Pete's under Roger Neilson, where he logged a lot of ice-time, used in virtually all crucial situations both offensively & defensively, in his last season combining for 133 points (74-75). He was a smart player who only needed to be taught a lesson once for it to stick & was NHL ready right out of the Draft, playing years ahead of his rookie status; followed orders, which in Bowmans case were "implied" as opposed to barked, low maintenance.

When I think of Jarvis, its always with Bob Gainey, and really, combined, I dont think you'll find two smarter linemates, guys who really knew how to shut down top players & get into their heads so cleanly & effectively. I particularly enjoyed seeing them play with Rejean Houle' who was also an extremely intelligent player, responsible defensively but like Jarvis & Gainey was a complete opportunist, but in Reggies' case a guy who could put the puck away in the best tradition of the "Flying Frenchman".

So Hardyvan, to suggest Doug Jarvis wasnt "special" specifically to the Montreal Canadiens' at that time & place is to deny reality & be-littles the guys contributions, which were huge. Would you suggest the Beatles wouldve been "The Beatles" had they just stuck with Stuart Sutcliffe as their drummer instead of going with Ringo Starr?. That "just anyone" instead of Javier Bardem couldve' played the role of a psycho hitman with a bad haircut in No Country for Old Men, making that movie really click, and for which he won a Best Supporting Actor Academy Award?.

The Beatles comp is good as Jarvis role wasn't of Lennon or MCcarthy type of value to the band.

I saw Jarvis play alot as it was my primary viewing of games in the NHL.

I'm not dissing Jarvis but the fact is that he played a role, like keeping the beat of a drummer in the Beatles, for that great Habs team and he was arguably in the 7-10th range of importance on those Cup runs so a little bit of reality is needed here. Sure he might have been Bowman's pet but that doesn't increase the actual value of what he did on the ice. not sure if I'm up against Hab fans here or maybe just guys that like defensive players but C1958 seems to imply that Jarvis was a better player than Ramsay which isn't the case at all IMO.

Just to be clear I would love a list from the "pretty special" crowd of players on that Habs team in those 1st 4 years that had more value to the team and wins than Jarvis did. I think in making that list guys might realize that the term pretty special is being thrown around pretty loosely here. You know guys like Lafluer, Dryden, Lemaire, Robinson, Lapointe, Shutt, Savard, Mahovlich, Gainey.

As for the assertion that Jarvis was the premier defensive center in that time period, that's just ridiculous unless Clarke lost it from 74-75 really quickly, and he didn't and the fact that Lemaire was also on that team and was no slouch in the defensive department. Goring and Don Luce were still around as well. Maybe the fact that Lemaire was a ton better on offensive might not make him a "defensive " center in the eyes of some posters, not sure just speculating.

The bottom line for me is that Jarvis was a role player, a good one on a great team and the term "pretty special" should be reserved for other players IMO. An example is that Jovo is a pretty special hitter or Janney was a pretty special hitter.

I prefer to use a number system with a,b,c,d afterwards like HF does with it's prospects and Jarvis is in the 6ish range for me.

Frankly if he had played for the Leafs or Canucks there wouldn't be any "pretty special" discussion going on IMO.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Accuracy

The Beatles comp is good as Jarvis role wasn't of Lennon or MCcarthy type of value to the band.

I saw Jarvis play alot as it was my primary viewing of games in the NHL.

I'm not dissing Jarvis but the fact is that he played a role, like keeping the beat of a drummer in the Beatles, for that great Habs team and he was arguably in the 7-10th range of importance on those Cup runs so a little bit of reality is needed here. Sure he might have been Bowman's pet but that doesn't increase the actual value of what he did on the ice. not sure if I'm up against Hab fans here or maybe just guys that like defensive players but C1958 seems to imply that Jarvis was a better player than Ramsay which isn't the case at all IMO.

Just to be clear I would love a list from the "pretty special" crowd of players on that Habs team in those 1st 4 years that had more value to the team and wins than Jarvis did. I think in making that list guys might realize that the term pretty special is being thrown around pretty loosely here. You know guys like Lafluer, Dryden, Lemaire, Robinson, Lapointe, Shutt, Savard, Mahovlich, Gainey.

As for the assertion that Jarvis was the premier defensive center in that time period, that's just ridiculous unless Clarke lost it from 74-75 really quickly, and he didn't and the fact that Lemaire was also on that team and was no slouch in the defensive department. Goring and Don Luce were still around as well. Maybe the fact that Lemaire was a ton better on offensive might not make him a "defensive " center in the eyes of some posters, not sure just speculating.

The bottom line for me is that Jarvis was a role player, a good one on a great team and the term "pretty special" should be reserved for other players IMO. An example is that Jovo is a pretty special hitter or Janney was a pretty special hitter.

I prefer to use a number system with a,b,c,d afterwards like HF does with it's prospects and Jarvis is in the 6ish range for me.

Frankly if he had played for the Leafs or Canucks there wouldn't be any "pretty special" discussion going on IMO.

Did not imply that Jarvis was better than Ramsay. Just made the position distinction and that in certain circumstances the Jarvis line accomplished what the Luce line did not come close to achieving.

Pete Mahovlich played on only two of the four 1976-79 SC winners so he was basically an interchangeable part. Did nothing with Pittsburgh or Detroit afterwards.

The pretty special aspect of Doug Jarvis' game was the ability to come directly from junior and integrate a SC quality team immediately. Only previous centers who managed this were Henri Richard and Dave Keon plus Norm Ullman to a lesser degree.

 

[UnrefinedCrude]

...

I'm not dissing Jarvis but the fact is that he played a role...

thing is he was an excellent role player. he was a pretty important contributor on those teams, even though not a superstar.

one thing to remember is he was a demon in the face off circle, you can't downplay his importance in key face offs.

 

[Killion]

Pete Mahovlich played on only two of the four 1976-79 SC winners so he was basically an interchangeable part. Did nothing with Pittsburgh or Detroit afterwards.

Crossing threads here C58, but we forgot about Pete Mahovlich over yonder; was one of the first "really" big men in the NHL at 6'5", 210+lbs.... I clearly remember his performance with Team Canada in 72 & his undressing of Tretiak, totally faking him out on a breakaway with a slapshot then crashing into him & sliding the puck over the red line..... played an invaluable role with the Habs after theyd' acquired him from Detroit along with minor league legend & future KC Scout Bart Crashley in 1970. People forget how good he was at both ends of the rink before he played with Shutt & Lafleur; how much of a steadying influence he was on older brother Frank after Montreal had acquired him as well. He was apparently quite the Comedian to boot, keeping things loose in the dressing room & on the bench, similar to Dennis Hull's antics' with Chicago & the Rubber Chicken Circuit' that followed post career. Sure his career ended ignominiously in the minors after stints with Pittsburgh & Detroit, Hell, it started pretty slowly with the Wings, but I doubt if many had as much fun along the way......

 

[Rick in MB]

Yes Rick, Pete Best was the original drummer & Stuart Sutcliffe the bassist. Nice to know people actually read my posts after the first few sentences. I often insert deliberate errors of fact near the end in order to make sure Im not on everyones permanent ignore list. Illicit a response. I often feel like Im just posting into the etherworld & no one cares. At least, thats my excuse for that one. You buyin it?.

I will admit that I don't always read to the end of every post. I usually stop when it's clear that the poster has no idea what they're talking about, you know the ones that think that the best players are the ones that have played in their relatively short lifetime.

These kids today have no concept of how dominate those late 70's habs teams were. And trust me, I was no fan, but the facts are facts. Those players made each other look better. To say another player could have replaced Jarvis and they would have won cups may be true, but the same could be said for Dryden, so does that make him not "special" too?

 

[Killion]

To say another player could have replaced Jarvis and they would have won cups may be true, but the same could be said for Dryden, so does that make him not "special" too?

For sure. Every player who plays on a Stanley Cup winning team is special, and I'd go further & say that every player on the losing sides special as well provided they pushed the eventual winners to a hard fought 7 games series. The SC is the hardest trophy to win in pro sports, yet the Montreal Canadiens' of the 70's made it look easy. It truly was a "team" with a capital 'T'. Sure, there were hard fought games & series, but to most, there was never any doubt as to the outcome.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Pete Mahovlich

Crossing threads here C58, but we forgot about Pete Mahovlich over yonder; was one of the first "really" big men in the NHL at 6'5", 210+lbs.... I clearly remember his performance with Team Canada in 72 & his undressing of Tretiak, totally faking him out on a breakaway with a slapshot then crashing into him & sliding the puck over the red line..... played an invaluable role with the Habs after theyd' acquired him from Detroit along with minor league legend & future KC Scout Bart Crashley in 1970. People forget how good he was at both ends of the rink before he played with Shutt & Lafleur; how much of a steadying influence he was on older brother Frank after Montreal had acquired him as well. He was apparently quite the Comedian to boot, keeping things loose in the dressing room & on the bench, similar to Dennis Hull's antics' with Chicago & the Rubber Chicken Circuit' that followed post career. Sure his career ended ignominiously in the minors after stints with Pittsburgh & Detroit, Hell, it started pretty slowly with the Wings, but I doubt if many had as much fun along the way......

Pete Mahovlich. Canadiens acquired him and Bart Crashley from Detroit in 1969 for Garry Monahan and Doug Piper. Interestingly in the 1963 amateur draft the Canadiens drafted Monahan 1st while the Red Wings drafted Pete Mahovlich 2nd.Both required a fair amount of time before finding their niche in the NHL.Pete Mahovlich started as a scorer and became a playmaker at the NHL level.Had the ability to play center and LW, handy trait during the 1971 playoffs against Boston.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mahovpe01.html

Yes Pete Mahovlich was big, as described but he did not play big and did not cause the scouts or the NHL establishment to change player profiles when it came to drafting and developing.

The contrast with Doug Jarvis is interesting. Pete Mahovlich took roughly five seasons to find his NHL niche and then he drifted between two positions before settling in at center where he went from a scorer to a playmaker. Doug Jarvis found his NHL niche immediately from junior and worked it to the end of his career by adding experience to the skill set.

 

[Scintillating10]

Jarvis or Carbonneau who was better?

 

[Big Phil]

Jarvis or Carbonneau who was better?

Carboneau for sure.



Back to the streak though, this will be a tough nut to crack. We may never see it happen. Bouwmeester is currently sitting at 640 or so, as is Henrik Sedin. Both are about 4 full seasons away from doing it if you want an indication. While you can criticize a lot about the style of play of Henrik and the fact that Bouwmeester has never realized his potential the truth is the all-time list for the streak is littered with different names. Alex Delvecchio and Mark Recchi are the best names on the list with over 500. Glenn Hall too if you want to count him, and we should. Andy Hebenton did it in the 1950s. Recchi did it in the 1990s. For whatever reason role players like MacTavish, Jarvis and Ramsay seem to have long streaks. I suppose it is easier for them to have a streak than someone like Sedin, even if he plays a bit of a perimeter game.

But playing all of those games straight in the NHL is good regardless of your role and minutes and regardless of era.

I agree with another poster that said Larmer's streak is even more impressive. I know anything could have happened had he stayed in Chicago in 1993-'94, but if he played a full season there he breaks the record right at the end of the season. Larmer was definitely keyed on a lot and subject to more attention than Jarvis, but either way, we are getting into "what ifs" here. Jarvis actually accomplished it.

Just a sidebar, how many people would have guessed Andrew Brunette played in 509 straight games?

 

[Harpo]

OK, OT question, but I was quite young when Jarvis was playing. Apart from his ironman streak and defensive abilities, what I remember from him is that just before taking a faceoff, he would sometimes let his dentures slightly out of his mouth. It could have been a mouthpiece, but it sure wasn't common at the time. So, dentures or mouthpiece?

 

[kaiser matias]

With the Sedins both signing 4 year extensions today, Henrik now is for sure going to be around to play enough games to pass Jarvis. That is of course providing he stays healthy over the next 4 years.

 

[kmad]

With the Sedins both signing 4 year extensions today, Henrik now is for sure going to be around to play enough games to pass Jarvis. That is of course providing he stays healthy over the next 4 years.

Just watch that he doesn't get matched against Duncan Keith and we should be fine

 

[Pominville Knows]

"Pretty special player" or not. Doug Jarvis was a Quality Player.

 

[VanIslander]

I remember when Trevor Linden was the then-current Ironman for consecutive games played and then suddenly it ended with a rash of minor injuries, and his linemate Martin Gelinas said on a T.V. interview in the locker room: "He's gone from Ironman to Tin Man."

 

[Jumptheshark]

In fairness, is Jarvis known for anything other than his ironman streak? Pretty sure the Habs would have won those four Stanley Cups without him (though you can't argue his PK proficiency ).

What I always found funny is that he ended up playing 82 games in the 85-86 season, because of a disparity in games played between Washington and Hartford at the time of his trade.

This is where being a little older than most of the posters around here comes in handy

Jarvis was one of the best checkers in the game. Jarvis on most nights would be lined up against the other teams best player and shut them down

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Carboneau for sure.



Back to the streak though, this will be a tough nut to crack. We may never see it happen. Bouwmeester is currently sitting at 640 or so, as is Henrik Sedin. Both are about 4 full seasons away from doing it if you want an indication. While you can criticize a lot about the style of play of Henrik and the fact that Bouwmeester has never realized his potential the truth is the all-time list for the streak is littered with different names. Alex Delvecchio and Mark Recchi are the best names on the list with over 500. Glenn Hall too if you want to count him, and we should. Andy Hebenton did it in the 1950s. Recchi did it in the 1990s. For whatever reason role players like MacTavish, Jarvis and Ramsay seem to have long streaks. I suppose it is easier for them to have a streak than someone like Sedin, even if he plays a bit of a perimeter game.

But playing all of those games straight in the NHL is good regardless of your role and minutes and regardless of era.

I agree with another poster that said Larmer's streak is even more impressive. I know anything could have happened had he stayed in Chicago in 1993-'94, but if he played a full season there he breaks the record right at the end of the season. Larmer was definitely keyed on a lot and subject to more attention than Jarvis, but either way, we are getting into "what ifs" here. Jarvis actually accomplished it.

Just a sidebar, how many people would have guessed Andrew Brunette played in 509 straight games?

i'm not going to pretend there aren't things to criticize about henrik's game and his performance, but being a perimeter player hsn't one if them. tortorella spoke out about this yesterday--

"I'm not sure who started it, but I'm sure there are a couple of know-it-alls out there who always talk about it," Tortorella said. "But they don't have a clue what these guys are about.

"In our league, I think we act like idiots sometimes when that (stuff) sticks with them after you watch them play.

"I've been dying to talk about that. These aren't soft people. These aren't soft players. I've had the honour, in this short time, to be with them, up close and personal and see how hard they work and see what they do on the ice.

..."They play underneath the hash marks in the tough areas," Tortorella said. "I just think people pop off who don't have a clue what they are saying and it sticks.

"You watch how hard they play on the boards, how they protect pucks. You kind of get lost with their skill, and you think that's what they're about and you say 'Oh, they're soft people.'

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/11/01/vancouver-canucks-coach-john-tortorella-defends-sedin-twins

henrik (and also daniel) take so much punishment to make plays, as much as say tim kerr took in front of the net or any number of dmen battling in the corners against forecheckers to move tge puck out of the zone. the opposite of perimeter play-- their entire game is based on absorbing contact to open up space on the cycle. which makes henrik's consecutive game streak as impressive as anyone else's. we're not talking about mike ribeiro waltzing around the easy areas of the ice here.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

I remember when Trevor Linden was the then-current Ironman for consecutive games played and then suddenly it ended with a rash of minor injuries, and his linemate Martin Gelinas said on a T.V. interview in the locker room: "He's gone from Ironman to Tin Man."

I don't remember that quote, but I do remember how odd it was when Linden's iron man streak ended and then, all of a sudden, he was constantly banged up. It seemed to coincide with his game slipping from, 'strong top-six player' to, 'third-liner' as well. Weird.

 

[Boom Boom Bear]

Jarvis was pretty much the best faceoff man in the league for his entire career.