Doug Bodger, Chris Joseph, Darrin Shannon, Zarley Zalapski

[cajal]

Sort of OT, but does anyone remember the song about Andy Moog that sounded like the Madonna song 'Vogue'?

Used to play it on ESPN, I think. Ew, nightmares of both tunes.

 

[Owtahear]

Who were the Pens close to getting before Barrasso? Reggie L or Moog...

Didn't the DeBartolo ownership nix the Moog deal because they thought Steve Guennette was the Pens goalie of the future?

 

[Owtahear]

You do know they weren't the main player we traded in any of those big deals getting Coffey, Francis, or Samuelsson other than Barrasso.

Okay, but.....We were trading for future HOFers in some of those cases, so yeah, an one for one wasn't. But remember, Simpson was the #2 overall, Chris Joseph was the #4 overall picks for well.....the Doctor. Paul Coffey. Incidentally, I was at the game when Coffey was first traded for against Quebec, you talk about a palpable excitement in the building.

On that note, I wish Pens fans can experience just how truly innocent it was to be a Pens fan during that time, when Lemieux was just coming into his own....it was unbelievable fun. I guess we have seen that again with Sid and Geno in 2007 and 2008, you just KNEW a cup or few were coming.

Shannon and Bodger for Barrasso. Bodger was a good young player, but Shannon never amounted to anything.

ZZ, Cullen and forget who else for Ronnie Francis and Ulfie (and another big defenseman who's name escapes me). This basically killed the Hartford franchise. Zalapski at the time looked like maybe the best young Dman in the world, but never amounted to anything close to that. Cullen was a gifted offensive player, but was no way a Ron Francis equal. This was an incredible steal.

My point here in bringing this up, you can't be overly enamored with your young prospects and what they might become, especially if you have a team that is a player or two away from being a true contender.

 

[Owtahear]

Having lived through each of those picks none of them were as highly regarded as Derek Pouliot with the exception of Bodger.

Are you kidding me? We didn't have the internet, and therefore the prospects centric sites, but Zalapski I know for a fact was Hockey News' top defensive prospect and a top 2-3 prospect (which Pouillot has not ever been ranked that high) and Joseph was the 4th pick overall in his draft year, Simpson the 2nd pick overall and many people thought he would be #1 overall. Don't let the electronic era of overhype cloud your memory. ZZ, Joseph and Simpson were every bit as highly as regarded as Pouillot.

 

[Owtahear]

It was a second and Steve Guenette
for Andy Moog. The deal was niced because EJ wasn't allowed to trade Guenette. That idiot Howard Baldwin vetoed the deal. He had a good feeling about him. Aside from myself, how many of you guys even remember Guenette? That was some feeling Howard.

I do indeed and mentioned him in a later post before I read yours. Unfortunately, I am an old geezer now (40's+) but I grew up with the Pens during that era and had a lot of connections to not only the media covering the team, but also the team administration itself. I was pretty popular then because not only could I get good seats , but I also got a lot of information and inside stuff before it ever went public.

Unfortunatlely all my connections are long gone.

 

[Dying Alive]

Okay, but.....We were trading for future HOFers in some of those cases, so yeah, an one for one wasn't. But remember, Simpson was the #2 overall, Chris Joseph was the #4 overall picks for well.....the Doctor. Paul Coffey. Incidentally, I was at the game when Coffey was first traded for against Quebec, you talk about a palpable excitement in the building.

On that note, I wish Pens fans can experience just how truly innocent it was to be a Pens fan during that time, when Lemieux was just coming into his own....it was unbelievable fun. I guess we have seen that again with Sid and Geno in 2007 and 2008, you just KNEW a cup or few were coming.

Shannon and Bodger for Barrasso. Bodger was a good young player, but Shannon never amounted to anything.

ZZ, Cullen and forget who else for Ronnie Francis and Ulfie (and another big defenseman who's name escapes me). This basically killed the Hartford franchise. Zalapski at the time looked like maybe the best young Dman in the world, but never amounted to anything close to that. Cullen was a gifted offensive player, but was no way a Ron Francis equal. This was an incredible steal.

My point here in bringing this up, you can't be overly enamored with your young prospects and what they might become, especially if you have a team that is a player or two away from being a true contender.

I had the most fun being a fan back then and I don't think it was just because I was a little kid. Those first Cup years were amazing, but the years leading up to them were fun also. The first game I ever went to at the Civic Arena, I don't remember the opponent or whether the Pens won or lost but the first goal I ever saw live was scored by John Chabot. And kind of an awkward story to look back on now, but my dad took me to a Pens/Isles game and some drunk yinzer kept yelling, "You're a fairy, Bossy!" As a little girl with no concept of what the term actually meant, I thought it was fairly awesome and Mike Bossy became one of my favorite players of the era.

 

[RottenScoundrel]

I well remember Zarly Zalapski. He was going to be the next big thing. You should include Craig Simpson on that list. The player who made BB look ugly by comparison. And how the fans were in an uproar about a trade for Andy Moog for one of those players, I forget which, or maybe a pick, and the trade got nixed.

Glen Sather asked for a "pot sweetener" in goalie Steve Guenette? The DeBatolos, who had basically lost faith in Eddie Johnston, quickly nixed that part of the deal.

Not long there after enter new GM, Tony Esposito who Eddie DeBartolo Jr. met at a sons of Italy convention in Chicago. In turn Esposito traded Doug Bodger and left winger Darrin Shannon to the Sabres for Tom Barrasso.

I personally would've taken the Edmonton deal and hung onto Bodger.

 

[Al Smith]

It was a second and Steve Guenette
for Andy Moog. The deal was niced because EJ wasn't allowed to trade Guenette. That idiot Howard Baldwin vetoed the deal. He had a good feeling about him. Aside from myself, how many of you guys even remember Guenette? That was some feeling Howard.

I'm pretty sure I remember Staggy in his sidekick role referring to him as the "Elf from Guelph".

 

[Zen Arcade]

I had the most fun being a fan back then and I don't think it was just because I was a little kid. Those first Cup years were amazing, but the years leading up to them were fun also. The first game I ever went to at the Civic Arena, I don't remember the opponent or whether the Pens won or lost but the first goal I ever saw live was scored by John Chabot. And kind of an awkward story to look back on now, but my dad took me to a Pens/Isles game and some drunk yinzer kept yelling, "You're a fairy, Bossy!" As a little girl with no concept of what the term actually meant, I thought it was fairly awesome and Mike Bossy became one of my favorite players of the era.

That's an amazing story.

 

[Tender Rip]

For the record, Owtahear's underlying point here is a good and important one.

 

[gordie]

Are you kidding me? We didn't have the internet, and therefore the prospects centric sites, but Zalapski I know for a fact was Hockey News' top defensive prospect and a top 2-3 prospect (which Pouillot has not ever been ranked that high) and Joseph was the 4th pick overall in his draft year, Simpson the 2nd pick overall and many people thought he would be #1 overall. Don't let the electronic era of overhype cloud your memory. ZZ, Joseph and Simpson were every bit as highly as regarded as Pouillot.

We had Central Scouting Bureau in The Hockey News which ranked him highly as a potential offensive force but needed time in the minors to work on his defensive game and added he wasn't playing the amount of games like you did in Major Junior. I hope this conversation doesn't drag out and I have to dig out the old scouting reports on Zalapski from The Hockey News?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Zalapsky was a huge deal back then. Not just in Pittsburgh but everywhere. He had a nationwide commercial in Canada while with the Pens. He was seen as one of the next big things. Anyone who says differently were not around then.

 

[JTG]

That Morrow for Morrow deal may be one of Shero's worst in his tenure here, followed closely by two 2nd rounders for a bottom pair defenseman. Just a real bad knee jerk move, and with hindsight, you can sort of see that he ended up making moves because he knew the team had to perform quickly or he was going to see the door.

I don't mind hype not being around Pouliot. That takes pressure off the kid and allows him to develop. I'm still in the camp that believes he has the tools necessary, and the coaching in place both in WBS and Pittsburgh to be a really good defenseman.

My issue with Pouliot comes in with the current personnel in place. With guys like Letang and Ehrhoff...he's not needed to run a PP. With guys like Despres, Maatta, and even Harrington...he's not needed to be a defensive stalwart. He is sort of a luxury to have at this point, and with glaring holes on the top 6 wings...we really can afford to move him.

I believe he and Dumoulin are prime candidates for trade fodder because both are going to be some serious juice to add to a potential deal to bring back a great winger.

One cannot really help but dream about having Forsberg this year, and Kapanen next. Problems solved. Though if faced with that pick again, I probably would have taken Trouba 9/10 times. That's just me though.

I don't think anyone has a problem with trading Pouliot in the right deal but you better get someone damn good in return. It's a deal that if it backfires it will sting like hell. Sort of like Forsberg/Erat.

Speaking of Erat...what in the ever living hell happened to his game? I used to be a big fan of his, and he has fell off the face of the earth. And yeah...that Forsberg-Erat deal looks to be brutal.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Not sure what happened to Erat's game. But I suspect some of it was misuse by Washington (4th line and on the wrong wing, much of the time) along with the resulting loss of confidence and some is that he has simply lost a step over the years and his game was always largely based around blinding speed.

I also suspect some of it is just that people (including GMGM, evidently) were expecting a little too much. His numbers on those Nashville teams were likely at least a little inflated by virtue of him being one of the only guys there at the time who played with an offensive mindset game in and game out.

Somebody had to put points up on those teams, in other words.

 

[td_ice]

For the record, Owtahear's underlying point here is a good and important one.

I agree with that. It really shows how good of a GM EJ was to turn those highly regarded prospects into not only productive players, but superstars, really. Now I recognize that times are different now, with the salary cap and such, so it isn't the same climate and dynamic on the trading front. But still points to the great job EJ did, and the lack of such with Shero (imo) in terms of asset management.

And on the Moog trade, it seems that others remember it differently than I do. So I therefore could be very well wrong on my point. If so, I apologize to Mister Hockey, as I could be mistaken in my recollection. I can't find much online regarding it, (as is the case with most rumors). Aside from a Wiki reference, and that doesn't prove much.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Here's an article from November 1988 talking about the Barrasso trade which touches on Moog.

It mentions right before Esposito was hired there was a trade lined up for Moog that ownership vetoed. It was Steve Gunette and the draft choice that became Shannon.

It also has notes on the Barrasso trade talks: Buffalo started asking for Coffey or Zalapski, and then asked for Bodger and Cunneyworth. Buffalo settled for Shannon and Bodger after providing Esposito with a "take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum" with four other teams bidding for Barrasso.

Esposito is also fairly critical of Shannon, talking about his poor skating and saying "...It never bothered me to lose him."

A separate article from November 1987 about the Paul Coffey trade announcement, mentions EJ claimed the Pens had "the first chance at acquiring Moog" who was in a contract dispute with Edmonton.

 

[Tweed]

ZZ, Cullen and forget who else for Ronnie Francis and Ulfie (and another big defenseman who's name escapes me).

Parker & Jennings

 

[TNT87]

I remember a sign that someone had at the Igloo when Coffey was traded for that read something like "We've got Coffey and Creamer. Now we want the Cup."

Creamer didn't even know that the Pens had to win their last game to make the playoffs that year.

Tony Tanti was mentioned earlier in the thread. He was a guy that I thought was a great addition at the time but didn't nearly have the impact he should have.

 

[diligent_d]

Sort of OT, but does anyone remember the song about Andy Moog that sounded like the Madonna song 'Vogue'?

Used to play it on ESPN, I think. Ew, nightmares of both tunes.

Yep. "Moog Vogue". Ugh.

 

[lastcupever75]

a sure blast from the past with some of those names

loved ZZ. so smooth out there, but it does still sting a bit they passed on brian leetch to take him.
especially being in NYR territory with everyone around here slobbering over him.

and IMO, if they dont lose Paul laus in the expansion draft, the naslund/stojanov deal never happens.
IIRC, our protected list had some real question marks on it

 

[lastcupever75]

Okay, but.....We were trading for future HOFers in some of those cases, so yeah, an one for one wasn't. But remember, Simpson was the #2 overall, Chris Joseph was the #4 overall picks for well.....the Doctor. Paul Coffey. Incidentally, I was at the game when Coffey was first traded for against Quebec, you talk about a palpable excitement in the building.

On that note, I wish Pens fans can experience just how truly innocent it was to be a Pens fan during that time, when Lemieux was just coming into his own....it was unbelievable fun. I guess we have seen that again with Sid and Geno in 2007 and 2008, you just KNEW a cup or few were coming.

Shannon and Bodger for Barrasso. Bodger was a good young player, but Shannon never amounted to anything.

ZZ, Cullen and forget who else for Ronnie Francis and Ulfie (and another big defenseman who's name escapes me). This basically killed the Hartford franchise. Zalapski at the time looked like maybe the best young Dman in the world, but never amounted to anything close to that. Cullen was a gifted offensive player, but was no way a Ron Francis equal. This was an incredible steal.

My point here in bringing this up, you can't be overly enamored with your young prospects and what they might become, especially if you have a team that is a player or two away from being a true contender.

jennings was the guy coming to the pens. canr recall who went to the whale

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

jennings was the guy coming to the pens. canr recall who went to the whale

I think it was some guy named Jeff Parker. Seriously. I'm sure if HFBoards were around back then there'd be 5-10 people on here talking about what a mistake it was because they read some article about Parker and liked him.

 

[Black Label]

Zarley Zalapski is the second best hockey name ever after Tore Vikingstad.