Double A and Marty Fever
- Thread starter Marshall
- Start date
AA already have had quite a lot of injuries that have hurt him a little. He is still going strong. A lot of things has to go right for them to be Hall of Famers as you talk about. Both look more like two way defensemen with too little scoring to make Hall of fame. AA looked like he had a really strong scoring touch so he might find it bak if he stays injury free. If Fever becomes a legit top pairing two way defenceman I think that is his ceiling, but I don't think he will make the conversation as a top 5 defenceman in the league for several years which is what he would have to do to join a conversation to make the Hall. Still you never know suddenly one of them are one of the absolute best D-men in the league. If both make the top 4 with one of them a 1st pairing solid defenceman the Caps would have done really well with those picks.
At least the Caps are starting to get some solid young players to be excited about (AA, Fever, CMM, Protas). Together with Wilson, Vrana and Samsonov who still are quite young. The big question is how all the big contract will turn out as they get older. Carlson, Oshie, Backström and probably Ovi's new contract. At least a couple of those will probably be negative value in some years. Hopefully people here will remember all the good they have done for this franchise and not talk **** about them as a lot of fans does with their former star players when they are not good enough anymore.
CapitalsCupReality
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txpd
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hb12xchamps
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AA's ceiling is definitely higher. Bigger Dman with more offensive upside than Fever. Injury risk is a concern, but he hasn't missed significant time yet this season despite playing in arguably the toughest division in the AHL.
Fehervary is more defensive minded. My guess would be that the organization wants him to develop somewhat of an offensive game to truly reach top pairing potential
Fehervary is more defensive minded. My guess would be that the organization wants him to develop somewhat of an offensive game to truly reach top pairing potential
txpd
Registered User
What is your definition of top pairing potential? Fehervary isn't going to be John Carlson. He needs only to be good enough at defense to support Carlson to be a quality top pair defenseman. His ceiling is far higher than Kempny as a for instance. He is more of an Alzner level player. In my definition Alzner was a top pairing player
Carlzner
Registered User
The game has changed. Top pairing Defenseman need an offensive element to their game these days.
Especially with the skating ability Fever has. That asset is underutilized with his current offensive game.
You literally used Orlov as an example for an ideal Fever projection... Orlov had elite offensive skill as a prospect. Fever is nowhere close.
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txpd
Registered User
I did use Orlov as an example and he rarely uses his offensive skills. Rarely. Orlov does have elite offensive skills and on the right team would be a Carlson type player. On the Capitals he will show an occasional flash and that's it. Fever's skating puts him in a position to better support a Carlson type player. If an elite defender with his mobility he becomes an elite 1st pair defenseman.
Hivemind
We're Touched
AA is more like Orlov than Fever is. AA is big, can lay the body, solid shot, and has good 4 way mobility. He may not end up having the same offensive game as Orlov (although even Orlov has only broken double digit goals once), but stylistically he's closer than Fever is.
txpd
Registered User
1. Orlov is listed at 5-11, 208. Fehervary is listed at 6-2 200. Fully developed I expect he will be bigger than Orlov. Orlov has a dynamic offensive game that he doesn't deploy and that is not part of his assignment. He is a defense first shut down defenseman. That is the kind of game I expect to see from the kid. Kempny and Jensen are 5s playing up the line up in the top 4. Fehervary will be a legit top 4. Frankly, that's enough. Carlson and a developed Fehervary will be a nice pair for a bit
HTFN
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Depends on if you’re asking him to be John Carlson, or himself at 27 minutes a night. I don’t think he has the tools to plug and play that role but expecting that would be bad coaching. Is there a style of play in which he could justify top pairing minutes? Possible.
hb12xchamps
Registered User
I’m not saying he has to be John Carlson. What he needs to do is vastly improve his offensive game to elevate himself to top pairing potential. He already has the mobility and the defensive play to be a very good player at the NHL. Adding an offensive game will make him an elite player at the NHL level. He’s on pace for around 23 points at the AHL level if the AHL had a 82 game season. He just needs to be a little more comfortable with being able to jump into the play
For an adult player his passing doesn't look first pair and to be improved much to become first pair in the future. Thats a concern for me.
Orlov looked like legit offensive guy from the beginning. His defensive game took what? About decade to improve. Has Fever a chance to improve his offensive skills?
Orlov looked like legit offensive guy from the beginning. His defensive game took what? About decade to improve. Has Fever a chance to improve his offensive skills?
txpd
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Definition of vastly improve? A little more comfortable I can see. Vastly improve I dont
txpd
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Much of defenseman play is predicated on experience. Reads and speed of decision making comes with having seen it repeatedly and experiencing the successes and failures of those decisions. The defense is harder to teach. So, I think he has a step up. His skating is as good as any offensive defenseman. As a defenseman who's offense is a secondary need, he has a great foundation
hb12xchamps
Registered User
Agree to disagree then. His offensive game and numbers are average at best right now. He has the ability to be a more offensive minded player but chooses not to.
I’ve seen a lot of his game this year and his best comparable to a current Caps dman is Jensen not Orlov. He’ll be better than Jensen but his game is pretty similar
txpd
Registered User
So you think MF is next thing to an offensive black hole then? You think that improvement to the 25-30pt range is a lot more than natural progression with experience?
CapitalsCupReality
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I don’t see that Fever needs to vastly improve offensively to be able to play top pair ultimately. Is Kempny some offensive dynamo?
Elite mobility and defensive ability will make him a fine top-4\top-pair component (to start) with the right partner IMO. The increased offense is gravy IMO.
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CapitalsCupReality
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I’d bet him focusing on shoring up his defensive game is his primary development goal, therefor the offense is sacrificed to some extent for now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him eventually break out offensively later in his NHL career. I think anyone expecting it early is going to be disappointed other than flashes and killer wheels.
Langway
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Agree with your first point. Against NHLers that's mainly about getting stronger so that he can both hold his ground and properly box players out. Increased offense will be important and IMO that comes down to hockey sense and in some respects confidence. If he has the determination to continue to add to his game as he adapts then it'll come. I'm jut not sure it altogether will. At least from a shot standpoint Alexeyev has the advantage. Alexeyev's frame also gives him the shutdown advantage so it'll be important for MF to continue to add to his game to stay ahead of the player that IMO has the better raw tools.
CapitalsCupReality
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AA certainly has the size/shot advantage, but I’d take MF’s skating.
playing strong D is the quickest way to the NHL IMO and that’s what Fever has been directed to and is focusing on for now IMO to make that step as quickly as possible.
I could easily see a 30pt guy in Fever mid-career, then more later. We’ll see....role deployment will impact things heavily both in development path and production levels.
playing strong D is the quickest way to the NHL IMO and that’s what Fever has been directed to and is focusing on for now IMO to make that step as quickly as possible.
I could easily see a 30pt guy in Fever mid-career, then more later. We’ll see....role deployment will impact things heavily both in development path and production levels.
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txpd
Registered User
In John Carlson's 3rd season, he put up 24 even strength points in 82 games. If the kid is playing 20 mins a night next to Carlson, I would expect that 20 pts isn't a wild goal. I wouldn't expect more. I am just seeing the advantage the Caps have with an all situations LD that can skate PK1 over what they have now.
Carlzner
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Is this a joke?
Carlson, just like Orlov, was a prospect with elite offensive skill. You expect Fever to match that point production?
hb12xchamps
Registered User
Again you take what I said out of context. He’s on pace for 23ish points in the AHL. That doesn’t translate to the NHL. Do you really expect him to score that many points at the NHL level? If so, what are your comparables? Fever has never been an offensive dynamo on any team he’s played on.
Never said he’d be an offensive black hole. What I said is he’s most comparable to Jensen If we are comparing him to current Caps dman as opposed to your comparison to Orlov.
