News: Dorion and Dubas talking Potential Trade

Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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So you think the other GM's are all in a line waiting to help the new age stats boy stumble into a cup next year.?
Nylander got a short contract, full pay and he is not a star player.

How does me not subscribing to your narrative of the "old boys" teaching him a lesson somehow mean that I think they are trying to help him?...

Nylander got 6 years. Hardly short. Full pay and he is as good as anyone who has signed for similar since. Whether he is, or can be, a star is irrelevant. There are a plenty of players people would not classify as a star that make similar or more.
 

Sypher04

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Jan 20, 2011
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Im still wondering why would Marleau wants to go Ottawa even if Toronto heavily overpay?

All trades are impossible if Marleau says no. I dont see any worlds that Marleau goes to Ottawa finish his career on a bottom 5 team in the league

I'm sure the idea would be for Ottawa to buy him out. Then he would sign for cheap in San Jose
 

AcerComputer

Registered User
Aug 4, 2014
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Marleau and a pick for Condon and MacArthur please.

Ottawa buys out Patty and the Leafs LTIR Clarke whom I believe is uninsured. Saves the Leafs cap space, and saves the Sens real dollars.
If McAurthur contract is not insured, seems like leafs are doing Ottawa a favour here - At best it is a win-win. Ottawa could buy-out Marleau and pay $833k in cash, but absorb the $6m caphit. Leafs would have McArthur on LTIR but have to pay him $4.75M in real dollars. Net cost the leafs $4M in cash.
 

Langdon Alger

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Apr 19, 2006
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So prove it. 22 year old coming off 2 straight 60+ point years in his 1st 2 seasons...what's that worth?

27 points this past season. I would argue he’s overpaid since the Leafs need all the cap space they can get. When there are three forwards on your team better than you, I’m not sure you should make 6.9 per year.

He’s a good player, I just feel he’s making too much. If he comes back next year and puts up 60 points or better, that’s good, but Toronto has a lot of work to do to get under the cap.
 

supsens

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Oct 6, 2013
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Ok, i'm going to call this one out. So Dubas should be punishe for overpaying RFAs? I'm assuming you are referring to Nylander? Well, tell me without firing up the old "hind-sightenator"....what is a 22 year old coming off 2 straight 60+ point years worth? People keep pointing to Pasta's deal as proof of Nylander's deal being bad? Those 2 players were pretty close at the time of signing, in fact, he was the comparable everyone wanted to use.

So, Pasta signs in 2017....when the cap was 75 million...for a cap hit of 6,666,66, or 8.89% of the cap.

Nylander signs in 2018 with the cap being 79.5 million for a cap hit of 6,962,366 or 8.72 of the cap. Add to that the salary structure that after year 1 the actual cash owed per year is sun 5 million...that is a very attractive deal for budget teams.

So how did Dubas massively overpay here?

Now lets talk about "the old boys club"...this UFA/RFA thing always makes me laugh...how do these "old boys" get a pass for ****ty signings?
Jeff Skinner...career high 63 points, 27 years old....9 million for 8?
Kevin Hayes...career high 49 points, 27 years old...7.14 million for 7?
Brock Nelson...career high 53 points, 27 years old...6 million for 6?

If the old boys thinks Dubas needs a timeout, i suggest they need to be expelled.


Fist I didn't say they overpaid and I sure didnt change it to massive overpayment . They got no RFA value and gave him a five and a half year deal.
Pasta had 70 points in 75 games. 34 goals and we can all agree is better.
 

Liferleafer

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Feb 9, 2011
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27 points this past season. I would argue he’s overpaid since the Leafs need all the cap space they can get. When there are three forwards on your team better than you, I’m not sure you should make 6.9 per year.

He’s a good player, I just feel he’s making too much. If he comes back next year and puts up 60 points or better, that’s good, but Toronto has a lot of work to do to get under the cap.
Ahh...as i suspected, we fueled up the old "hind-sightenator". Again, you can't do that when saying Dubas overpaid....Dubas can't see the future, so put yourself in his shoes....2 straight 60+ seasons (his only 2 seasons)...Pasta signs the year before for 6,666,666 or 8.89% of the cap...what do you sign Nylander for.

Now, if you want to keep using hindsight as a Dubas bashing tool, i'll put you on the hot seat yet again....Chevy doesn't even have to use hindsight, Laine just had a 50 point season...you think he signs for less than Nylander?
 
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Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
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27 points this past season. I would argue he’s overpaid since the Leafs need all the cap space they can get. When there are three forwards on your team better than you, I’m not sure you should make 6.9 per year.

He’s a good player, I just feel he’s making too much. If he comes back next year and puts up 60 points or better, that’s good, but Toronto has a lot of work to do to get under the cap.

This is the laziest analysis, I just hate it. You point to this past year like he is 35 or something. He's 22 last season and had a long list of legitimate reasons why he struggled. He absolutely dominated the worlds again this year. It's obvious to anyone he is putting up min 60 points next season. And for 25 goals, 60 points, 6.9 is pretty damn good.
 

Liferleafer

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Fist I didn't say they overpaid and I sure didnt change it to massive overpayment . They got no RFA value and gave him a five and a half year deal.
Pasta had 70 points in 75 games. 34 goals and we can all agree is better.
Really...what does this mean?
I think the old boys club is probably giving your GM a liitle panic and lesson for paying every RFA like they are UFA. They have him hancuffed in the corner on a timeout.
 

Langdon Alger

Registered User
Apr 19, 2006
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This is the laziest analysis, I just hate it. You point to this past year like he is 35 or something. He's 22 last season and had a long list of legitimate reasons why he struggled. He absolutely dominated the worlds again this year. It's obvious to anyone he is putting up min 60 points next season. And for 25 goals, 60 points, 6.9 is pretty damn good.

You gonna cry about it? I don’t care if you don’t like it, that’s my opinion. f*** off
 

Qward

Because! That's why!
Jul 23, 2010
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So prove it. 22 year old coming off 2 straight 60+ point years in his 1st 2 seasons...what's that worth?
Well there are different tiers.

You have players like Crosby, Malkin that got an 8.7M deal which would scale up to being 11M ish now
Then you have guys like Johnny Gaudreau or Patrick Kane who got 6.7M and 6.3 which is only like 7 or 9 now.

Obviously the team wants to pay him the Johnny and the player/agent wants to be paid like a Crosby
 

ottomaddox

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Oct 31, 2017
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So prove it. 22 year old coming off 2 straight 60+ point years in his 1st 2 seasons...what's that worth?

I don't want to get heavily into the argument, but the bonuses Nylander will receive by July 2nd are absolutely off the charts. He is basically being rewarded for his potential.

He is not just 7 x 6.9. Just because Toronto can afford the bonuses doesn't mean they have to overpay with them to sign Nylander.
 

Amadeus

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27 points this past season. I would argue he’s overpaid since the Leafs need all the cap space they can get. When there are three forwards on your team better than you, I’m not sure you should make 6.9 per year.

He’s a good player, I just feel he’s making too much. If he comes back next year and puts up 60 points or better, that’s good, but Toronto has a lot of work to do to get under the cap.

Just because we need cap space doesn't mean the player is overpaid. Two different things.
 

Liferleafer

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Well there are different tiers.

You have players like Crosby, Malkin that got an 8.7M deal which would scale up to being 11M ish now
Then you have guys like Johnny Gaudreau or Patrick Kane who got 6.7M and 6.3 which is only like 7 or 9 now.

Obviously the team wants to pay him the Johnny and the player/agent wants to be paid like a Crosby
Which they did, that was my point.
 

Langdon Alger

Registered User
Apr 19, 2006
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Just because we need cap space doesn't mean the player is overpaid. Two different things.

He needs to be better than a 60 point player to justify his salary imo. 60 point forwards aren’t worth 7 million a year. Again, just my opinion. He’s still young, so he can obviously get better.
 

Liferleafer

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Feb 9, 2011
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I don't want to get heavily into the argument, but the bonuses Nylander will receive by July 2nd are absolutely off the charts. He is basically being rewarded for his potential.

He is not just 7 x 6.9. Just because Toronto can afford the bonuses doesn't mean they have to overpay with them to sign Nylander.
Lol....Toronto structured that deal the way they did because it's the only way in a cap system that the can use their wealth as a tool. They don't care about paying actual cash up front, they did it because now Nylander's actual salary owed per year is sub 5 million. That makes that contract attractive to budget teams which adds value in a future trade.
 

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