Management Don Sweeney III

[Gee Wally]

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Management - Don Sweeney II - All Sweeney Talk Here

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[Dr Hook]

Worst GM in the league, hands down. Can't draft, signs terrible players, gives away awful contracts. He should be sacked. There, got that out of the way

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Worst GM in the league, hands down. Can't draft, signs terrible players, gives away awful contracts. He should be sacked. There, got that out of the way

/thread.

 

[Chief Nine]

/thread.

Well obviously, anyone coulda signed Marchand and Pastrnak to those deals. I mean top 10 forwards always sign for less than market value just because they want to stay with their teams.











Don't they?

 

[22Brad Park]

Worst GM in the league, hands down. Can't draft, signs terrible players, gives away awful contracts. He should be sacked. There, got that out of the way

He has 5 days to get the top 6 help.The judgements will start then in ernest .

 

[Dr Hook]

He has 5 days to get the top 6 help.The judgements will start then in ernest .

Well it would help if he wasn't so arrogant with his Harvard degree when in reality he is just riding the coattails that Chia left him. We'll see.

On a serious note, I will be disappointed if they don't make a move, but on the other hand, if the asking price is simply too high I'd rather they not. It is better to me to build a team that can be consistently competitive by developing talent than throwing away players and picks in an attempt to grab the brass ring for one playoffs.

 

[UncleRico]

Well obviously, anyone coulda signed Marchand and Pastrnak to those deals. I mean top 10 forwards always sign for less than market value just because they want to stay with their teams.











Don't they?

Whats more realistic. Don Sweeney pulled a fast one on Marchand/Pastrnak and their agents, swindling them into below market deals, or Marchand and Pastrnak enjoy playing for the Bruins, their teammates and being apart of one of the most storied franchises in the NHL. Ill go with the ladder.

Marchand and Pastrnak wanting to stay and while leaving a little extra cap room to sign players is infinitely more responsible for them signing below market value than Don Sweeney coaxing them into a good deal.

So yes, just about any other GM would have been able to sign them to the deals they signed with Sweeney, except maybe chiarelli.

 

[22Brad Park]

Well it would help if he wasn't so arrogant with his Harvard degree when in reality he is just riding the coattails that Chia left him. We'll see.

On a serious note, I will be disappointed if they don't make a move, but on the other hand, if the asking price is simply too high I'd rather they not. It is better to me to build a team that can be consistently competitive by developing talent than throwing away players and picks in an attempt to grab the brass ring for one playoffs.

Sweeney needs to get this done.He has had plenty of time .

 

[TCB]

Well it would help if he wasn't so arrogant with his Harvard degree when in reality he is just riding the coattails that Chia left him. We'll see.

On a serious note, I will be disappointed if they don't make a move, but on the other hand, if the asking price is simply too high I'd rather they not. It is better to me to build a team that can be consistently competitive by developing talent than throwing away players and picks in an attempt to grab the brass ring for one playoffs.

The Bruins are areal good team and I think Sweeney realizes this and I just don't see him standing pat and totally relying on developing future talent to maintain a level of constituency for years to come. I believe he realizes their as good as anyone out-there, with the exception of Tampa and the right acquisition could possibly put them over the hump and its doable without giving up the farm.

 

[Chief Nine]

Whats more realistic. Don Sweeney pulled a fast one on Marchand/Pastrnak and their agents, swindling them into below market deals, or Marchand and Pastrnak enjoy playing for the Bruins, their teammates and being apart of one of the most storied franchises in the NHL. Ill go with the ladder.

Marchand and Pastrnak wanting to stay and while leaving a little extra cap room to sign players is infinitely more responsible for them signing below market value than Don Sweeney coaxing them into a good deal.

So yes, just about any other GM would have been able to sign them to the deals they signed with Sweeney, except maybe chiarelli.

Well Unc, you can climb all the ladders in Home Depot and Lowes combined and there will never really be any way for you to prove your theory. You're speculating at best and can't prove that any other GM could have and would have signed those two to the same deal as Don Sweeney did.

The simple fact is you have no idea what Pastrnak and Marchand's mindset is or was at the time they negotiated their contracts. And if I were to speculate, I would guess that any agent worth their salt would make damn sure their clients got market value as it affects their dealings with future clients and negotiating deals with other teams. Without being involved somehow or getting information from one of the principals, you have no idea how these deals came to be and who did what.

Of all the things to criticize Don Sweeney about I'm afraid this is not a good hill for you to die on...

 

[UncleRico]

Well Unc, you can climb all the ladders in Home Depot and Lowes combined and there will never really be any way for you to prove your theory. You're speculating at best and can't prove that any other GM could have and would have signed those two to the same deal as Don Sweeney did.

The simple fact is you have no idea what Pastrnak and Marchand's mindset is or was at the time they negotiated their contracts. And if I were to speculate, I would guess that any agent worth their salt would make damn sure their clients got market value as it affects their dealings with future clients and negotiating deals with other teams. Without being involved somehow or getting information from one of the principals, you have no idea how these deals came to be and who did what.

Of all the things to criticize Don Sweeney about I'm afraid this is not a good hill for you to die on...

Exactly my point. Marchand and Pastrnak signed back here below market value because they wanted to, not because don sweeney swindled them into a lower deal. The common denominator here isnt don sweeney, its Marchand and pastrnak wanting to stay in Boston, give the team a little cap room to sign other players and because they like the franchise. Has little to nothing to do with Sweeney convincing them to stay and sign below market value.

Also not criticizing Sweeney at all, just not giving him credit for something that he had little to no impact on and something that any other person who was GM of the Bruins would have been able to do. Do you really think that if it was any other GM, MArchand and Pastrnak would have been like, " no i want more money, only signing for less for don sweeney."

Come on.

 

[Chief Nine]

Exactly my point. Marchand and Pastrnak signed back here below market value because they wanted to, not because don sweeney swindled them into a lower deal. The common denominator here isnt don sweeney, its Marchand and pastrnak wanting to stay in Boston, give the team a little cap room to sign other players and because they like the franchise. Has little to nothing to do with Sweeney convincing them to stay and sign below market value.

Also not criticizing Sweeney at all, just not giving him credit for something that he had little to no impact on.

Again, how do you know this? You're posting this as fact when it's speculation in reality...

 

[UncleRico]

Again, how do you know this? You're posting this as fact when it's speculation in reality...

Its common sense. Do you honestly believe Sweeney was the main reason or even a top 10 reason why they signed below market value or do you think its reasons such as, good team, good relationships with teammates, good city, historic franchise, loyalty to the team that drafted them, chance to compete, comfortable with their surroundings, etc.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Its common sense. Do you honestly believe Sweeney was the main reason or even a top 10 reason why they signed below market value or do you think its reasons such as, good team, good relationships with teammates, good city, historic franchise, loyalty to the team that drafted them, chance to compete, comfortable with their surroundings, etc.

Considering Pastrnak held out into September, I've got to think Sweeney did something to convince him to sign

 

[UncleRico]

" I have been a Bruin since the start of my pro career and there is no place I would rather play. I look forward to doing everything I can to help our team achieve success and bring the Stanley Cup back to Boston." - Marchand

“If you asked me when I was 15 years old if I was going to be playing for $6 million a year when I’m 22, I would be like, ‘I don’t think you’re saying the truth,’” Pastrnak told reporters. “It’s just dream come true for me. I’m happy for what I’m getting. I could be playing in Czech, right? For a couple hundred bucks a month. So I’m really happy.” -pastrnak

Sounds like a couple guys who werent really concerned with money at all and just wanted to play for boston.

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

Again, how do you know this? You're posting this as fact when it's speculation in reality...

Either way its pure speculation, but given the years of the signings sure they were discounts ,but today they look even better.

lets not forget these players have agents and they want the players, to get as much money as they possibly could. So they could of pushed for them to go higher, but I think they weren't personally greedy and wanted to get back on the ice as a Bruin more anything. It isn't like Sweeney had Harry Potters wand and casted a spell on them.
Like Pasta said:

 

[UncleRico]

Considering Pastrnak held out into September, I've got to think Sweeney did something to convince him to sign

“I just want to play. My agent [J.P. Barry] came up to me and said, ‘This is what you should sign.’ said Pastrnak. “So I signed it, and I went to Boston.” - Pastrnak

Doesnt sound like it was much of sweeney convincing Pastrnak of much, more that his agent just said, If you want to play and get back on the ice heres the contract. Then he signed.

 

[Chief Nine]

Its common sense. Do you honestly believe Sweeney was the main reason or even a top 10 reason why they signed below market value or do you think its reasons such as, good team, good relationships with teammates, good city, historic franchise, loyalty to the team that drafted them, chance to compete, comfortable with their surroundings, etc.

Lol, so in your mind Don Sweeney was pretty much a zero sum factor in negotiating what everyone in the hockey world considers to be amazing below market deals for 2 top 10 NHL forwards in their prime years.

OK...

Please convince me that if both Marchand and Pastrnak went to free agency that they'd be signed to the same exact deals with their new teams.

This is laughable. You're not making any sense here my friend

 

[UncleRico]

Lol, so in your mind Don Sweeney was pretty much a zero sum factor in negotiating what everyone in the hockey world considers to be amazing below market deals for 2 top 10 NHL forwards in their prime years.

OK...

Please convince me that if both Marchand and Pastrnak went to free agency that they'd be signed to the same exact deals with their new teams.

This is laughable. You're not making any sense here my friend

This is completely different than what we are talking about and besides the point. We are both in agreement they signed a hometown discount. Im arguing that Don Sweeney had little to nothing to do with the hometown discount and it was mainly the fact that Marchand and Pastrnak didnt want to play anywhere else and compete for a Cup here.

Ive said this probably 3-4 times, but ill say it again. Marchand/Pasta signed back here because this is where they wanted to be and $$ wasn't as important to them as being where they wanted to be. Which is evident in their statements of them saying they didnt want to play anywhere else and they just wanted to play.

Marchand specifically said he didnt want to play anywhere else so why would he go through free agency. Pasta said he could be playing in czech for a couple hundred a month and hes more than happy with what he has because all he wants to do is play.

 

[Chief Nine]

Either way its pure speculation, but given the years of the signings sure they were discounts ,but today they look even better.

lets not forget these players have agents and they want the players, to get as much money as they possibly could. So they could of pushed for them to go higher, but I think they weren't personally greedy and wanted to get back on the ice as a Bruin more anything. It isn't like Sweeney had Harry Potters wand and casted a spell on them.
Like Pasta said:

" I have been a Bruin since the start of my pro career and there is no place I would rather play. I look forward to doing everything I can to help our team achieve success and bring the Stanley Cup back to Boston." - Marchand

“If you asked me when I was 15 years old if I was going to be playing for $6 million a year when I’m 22, I would be like, ‘I don’t think you’re saying the truth,’” Pastrnak told reporters. “It’s just dream come true for me. I’m happy for what I’m getting. I could be playing in Czech, right? For a couple hundred bucks a month. So I’m really happy.” -pastrnak

Sounds like a couple guys who werent really concerned with money at all and just wanted to play for boston.

“I just want to play. My agent [J.P. Barry] came up to me and said, ‘This is what you should sign.’ said Pastrnak. “So I signed it, and I went to Boston.” - Pastrnak

Doesnt sound like it was much of sweeney convincing Pastrnak of much, more that his agent just said, If you want to play and get back on the ice heres the contract. Then he signed.

If you really think that's how negotiations work in professional sports, then good on you. And it took what, 3 months for Barry to just decide one day "Hey we have a deal!! Sign here!"

Yikes

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

If you really think that's how negotiations work in professional sports, then good on you. And it took what, 3 months for Barry to just decide one day "Hey we have a deal!! Sign here!"

Yikes

If your have a response to my comment, you should link separately or reply to that specifically.

 

[Chief Nine]

This is completely different than what we are talking about and besides the point. We are both in agreement they signed a hometown discount. Im arguing that Don Sweeney had little to nothing to do with the hometown discount and it was mainly the fact that Marchand and Pastrnak didnt want to play anywhere else and compete for a Cup here.

Ive said this probably 3-4 times, but ill say it again. Marchand/Pasta signed back here because this is where they wanted to be and $$ wasn't as important to them as being where they wanted to be. Which is evident in their statements of them saying they didnt want to play anywhere else and they just wanted to play.

Marchand specifically said he didnt want to play anywhere else so why would he go through free agency. Pasta said he could be playing in czech for a couple hundred a month and hes more than happy with what he has because all he wants to do is play.

Fine. So they want to play for the Boston Bruins and only the Boston Bruins.

Again, these are pro athletes with leverage and agents who's sole purpose is to negotiate the best deal they can for their clients. If the players say to their agents "Listen, I'm not playing for anyone but the Boston Bruins, and I'll play for free if I have to." Then it's the agent's job to say "OK kid, you're the boss, but let me handle this."

Even with that directive from a client, no pro sports agent is going to go into negotiations and let on that their client doesn't want to leave. They're there to squeeze every dime they can out of the team. And don't forget the player's union is also keen to make sure they don't sell themselves short because that affects other deals.

So knowing that their clients really don't want to go to free agency and play for another team and the team says "We're only going to go to x. That's our best offer." Then the agent goes back to the player and says "Well the most you're gonna get from the Bruins is this deal here but I'm sure I can get you x on the free market."

So ultimately, yes the player is the boss and they decide whether to take that deal or go UFA, but the agent's job is and was to take the negotiations as far as they can with their current team.

Doesn't that tell you that Don Sweeney negotiated a team friendly deal with both of these guys???

 

[Chief Nine]

If your have a response to my comment, you should link separately or reply to that specifically.

I was replying to both comments that were similar with the same answer. No slight intended there

 

[ORR2Sanderson2ORR]

I was replying to both comments that were similar with the same answer. No slight intended there

Sweeney did a nice job in signing those players no doubt, but the problem I have, is he's failed to take advantage of it with miss-hits on Beleskey and Backes. You seem to want to bake your pie and eat it too.

You give all credit to Sweeney for these great signings and none to the players for taking team friendly deals. I feel your over looking the fact that it took all three, players/Management and agents to make it work. Where Sweeney has failed to take advantage of these team friendly contracts has hurt, his signings of Belesky and Backes was like throwing cap space he helped create right out the window.

 

[Chief Nine]

Sweeney did a nice job in signing those players no doubt, but the problem I have, is he's failed to take advantage of it with miss-hits on Beleskey and Backes. You seem to want to bake your pie and eat it too.

You give all credit to Sweeney for these great signings and none to the players for taking team friendly deals. I feel your over looking the fact that it took all three, players/Management and agents to make it work. Where Sweeney has failed to take advantage of these team friendly contracts has hurt, his signings of Belesky and Backes was like throwing cap space he helped create right out the window.

Where did I say it was all Sweeney? Of course it takes two sides to agree on a deal. I never said it was 100% Sweeney. For all I know there could be a guy that Sweeney has working for him that negotiates contracts. Either way, both sides had to agree to terms to get signatures on those contracts.

Backes and Beleskey were misses. Every GM in every sport makes mistakes, I never said Don Sweeney doesn't. I'm specifically addressing the poster's insistence that anyone else could have signed Brad Marchand and David Pastrnak to those deals which I disagree with