Management Don Sweeney II

Status
Not open for further replies.

BruinDust

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
24,342
21,748
I've never bought that Smith was some kind of a dressing room problem, seems like more of a convenient whisper campaign after they traded him for a lesser player.

He didn't seem to hamper Florida's performance with his cancerous ways, I think he even wore a letter at times, for a team that performed a lot better than our locker room full of character guys.

Why is it always a guy not gelling with his co-workers (teammates) has to be a problem or a cancer.

Maybe he was just a quiet guy who maybe didn't have a whole lot in common with the rest of the group. Perhaps there was a guy or two in the room he didn't have much respect for. Once again it happens.

Things don't always have to be one extreme or another. Anyone who fits in doesn't mean they are "character guys' nor is someone who doesn't fit in a "problem" or "cancer".

There's not a sport's team in history were every player were each other's BFFs.
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
28,700
10,556
Take away the Top 3-4 players on any team and what's left is not going to be MVP material, is it? The difference is that you selected a few of the worst roster players from last year, rather than some good average to above average performers.


Congrats you finally got the point of the discussion that you dove headfirst into without bothering to read for context.
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
28,700
10,556
The problem we're discussing though is that we keep getting guys with talent but apparently poor character that end up getting traded and how the Bruins can focus on getting talented guys that also will fit the mold and character of this team.

Crude version: We need more Marchand's Krug's and Bergeron's and less Hamilton's and Smiths.

But I'm not sure that's really the problem. I think you are starting with a thesis that I don't think is true.
 

Era of Sanity

Certified Poster
Nov 12, 2010
4,321
9
Why is it always a guy not gelling with his co-workers (teammates) has to be a problem or a cancer.

Maybe he was just a quiet guy who maybe didn't have a whole lot in common with the rest of the group. Perhaps there was a guy or two in the room he didn't have much respect for. Once again it happens.

Things don't always have to be one extreme or another. Anyone who fits in doesn't mean they are "character guys' nor is someone who doesn't fit in a "problem" or "cancer".

There's not a sport's team in history were every player were each other's BFFs.

My point is simply that I don't think his personality or character hampered the team in any way.
 

Era of Sanity

Certified Poster
Nov 12, 2010
4,321
9
Do you want to pay him the kind of $$$ he got?


Im hardly a fan of Jimmy Hayes but I think I'd rather have him at his deal than pay Smith 5 per a year. Reilly Smith to me is still just a soft streaky 40-45 point a year guy. Decent player and talent no thanks at 5 mil per year.

I wasn't commenting on his contract. I was surprised he got that much but on the other hand you shouldn't sneeze at his production. He has exceeded 45 points 2 of the last 3 years. Hayes career high is 35. Smith has 58 goals, 141 points the last 3 years. Has shown up for the playoffs and done well, very well last last year. I'd probably take the Smith contract.
 

KnightofBoston

Registered User
Mar 22, 2010
19,828
6,086
The Valley of Pioneers
But I'm not sure that's really the problem. I think you are starting with a thesis that I don't think is true.

What do you think the problem is (we're talking about acquiring and keeping talent, correct?) because it seems to me theyve whiffed on some big names by taking guys that maybe didn't have the mental make up to be here - whether that means with the organization as constructed ie the other players on the team or not fitting the mentality the management is trying to build as a whole...I don't know.


The only one in recent times with this team as constructed (yes I recognize Chiarelli isn't here but it's still the same general team to me as there are players and management staff still in place from the Chiarelli years) that really stands out to me as a huge mistake was the Seguin trade. He by all accounts wanted to be here, really wasn't as big of an off ice problem as he was made out to be, and he didn't take nights off like some would like to claim - to put the cherry on top they got a bad return.

Kessel, also from the Chia years, went on to put up nice numbers but not help his team until he was eventually traded yet again but this time to a team that already had elite pieces in place and kessel was put into a role that fit him as he wasn't the guy.

Hamilton had question marks for his d game and as we all come to find out, didn't want to be here. He went on to suck it up in Calgary and who knows how he'll do long term.

Smith, also didn't want to be here and absolutely took nights off. He went on to seemingly do better in florida (though as someone pointed out in here, actually has a career high in boston)

So through the chia and sweeney years we've lost : kessel, seguin, Smith, Hamilton...who else am I missing that's prominent? Talent but possible character issues that have come into question as an excuse as to why they are no longer here.


You can convince me that sweeney is a rookie GM that has made mistakes, you can convince me that neely really isn't as smart as some would like to believe due to Bruins fandom, you can convince me that claude is very stubborn at times and makes decisions we all can see need to be made - but you can't convince me he's still not a world class coach and you can't convince me that sweeney was making difficult decisions that the real gravity of can only be felt in full by him and not by us...we who do not have all the info nor is our livelihood tied to the consequences of the decisions.

Can't remember if it was this thread or not by Mike made really great points on why he's frustrated with the state of the Bruins and the people that are on here telling him his opinions are wrong about stuff that's already happened.

The problem is we're looking at it from the lense of being a fan. Sure, we can sit here and say the Bruins weren't cup contenders and the Bruins should have traded Eriksson for assets. But in my view, that would be suicidal for a GM that's: a) already on the hot seat fair or un fair b) pressured to rebuild on the fly and still make the playoffs by ownership c) is seeing his team sitting in first place while mulling over what to do with eriksson d) probably felt like he still could sign him anyways and e) we all have to rememeber that it's easy for us to see a team's make up and predict the future, but a GM can't effectively declare to the world he doesn't believe in his team by trading his best winger. (Chia effectively did that with Boychuk when the Bruins weren't even in first place in March yet, he destroyed the lockeroom and we were all left with eggs on our faces)

Some of us here have the benefit of having a lot of foresight and hockey knowledge, but the majority of fans and there for $$$$$, really don't. They would have looked at trading Eriksson the same way as the hamilton trade was looked at: not pragmatic and not looking forward long term. Fair or unfair, that's how it is. And I'll be you anything the Jacobs crew was pushing tooth and nail for one round of the playoffs and wasn't as concerned with this team's overall success.


Im curious to see your thoughts on the real problem and what possible solutions there are, because as it stands, it seems to me that picking the right players to play here as a second, but highly important, factor just behind skill/need will be crucial going forward.


At the end of the day, when the last remnants of this current Bruins club is over, if all they ever do is win one more up hell just go to the finals one more time - and Seguin/hamilton/smith and anyone else im forgetting go their whole careers without winning a cup - you do have to wonder how important a players mental make up is.


Now, Id rather have seguin with his warts then what we gave him up for. Hell Id rather have Dougie and his warts than both Quaider and Miller at 2.5 and STILL a so so at best defense - but it seems to me you really can't afford to have too many guys that aren't on board with the overall team philosophy. Whatever the hell that may be...
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
28,700
10,556
I just don't buy either the "Mental makeup" or the "didn't want to be here" thing.

Kessel wanted to be here. The B's didn't want to pay him what he thought (and was right) he deserved. He had the mental makeup to have a higher career Playoff PPG than any Bruin, including David Krejci. The B's looked at their salary structure at the time and saw that it was going to be Krejci or Kessel and they couldn't afford both. Now part of that problem was caused by the overvaluing of 3rd line players and paying too much for them because of "character" and "they want to be here". But in the end they got tremendous value for Kessel and it was smart to deal him. But he wasn't mentally unfit to play here, and he didn't "want" out.

Reilly Smith signed 2 different contracts to play here. He signed a 1 year bridge deal that was team friendly. Then he signed a new 2 year deal with the team during the season. THEY traded him. Again, he signed here 2x, I'm not sure what evidence there is that he didn't want to be here.

Hamilton I guess you can make a case for because there were rumors. But I don't know if any of that was irreparable or not.

So I just don't see a trend or the problem being that the team is picking mentally fragile guys or anything. Chara left Ottawa because Boston offered more $. Beleskey left ANA because he wanted more $. There's nothing mentally fragile about them or Kessel wanting to get paid.

The problems the team has had are that under Chia they just didn't draft well, they overpaid mediocre players who they thought brought intangible values, and they didn't get enough back for Seguin.


I bolded the main idea.
 

bearcountry17

Registered User
Jun 4, 2012
3,246
1,883
South Shore, MA
Trading Boychuk for 2 second round picks, after trading Seguin for a win now package, when you could have bought out depth players was the nail in the coffin.

A beloved in the locker room, prime aged, physical, RH #2-3 Dman playoff warrior for two ****ing second round picks. What a slap in the face that was.

I know Sweeney's made mistakes but he got a 10x better package for Lucic than Chia got for Boychuk. I know Lucic had more value at the time but not even close the discrepancy of the two returns.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad