Speculation: Don’t trade Gaudreau

GumbyCan2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
3,042
1,345
Warm & Sunny
Driving play from the wing simply doesn't work when checking gets tight. There just isn't space because of how breakouts work. Wingers are generally stationary on most breakouts and positioned close to the boards. So a guy like Gaudreau only has a few options - hope his centre can handle the breakout, or leak out early and hope a stretch pass hits him. Neither of these are high percentage plays if Sean Monahan is his centre. The centre has a lot more ice to support his defensemen, support his wingers, execute the breakout, and then handle the puck on the zone entry. To me the prototypical centre was Pavel Datsyuk, and Sean Monahan is nothing like him.

It might work in November and December, when teams are still playing sloppy run and gun hockey. But come February, March, April, May, there just isn't space for someone like Gaudreau to be the primary puck carrier. I love Gaudreau. He needs a centre. That's all there is to it. That or we would need to actually convert him to a centre so he has the free ice to operate.



Unless you have Nathan MacKinnon on your top line, yes. But again, Nathan MacKinnon is a playdriving centre, not a winger.

You know, it might be prudent to offer up Johnny G, rather than Money, to see if a viable young C can be be had in return. Replace Money at C with new "star" and move Money to "off-wing" RW and move MattTkruck up on LW. Seeing as how Money is a (former) sniper type scorer and not a play driving C, he should be able to adjust to W appropriately, a little less ominous defensive reads and coverage requirement. I could see him becoming a Pacioretty type equivalent producing winger, with a quality puck-controlling, playmaking C. Only thing is, Money would need to be physically more involved and toughen up along the boards and behind opposing net, etc. Patches has done admirably at this most his career, thus aiding his production.
Possible C's for Johnny?
If to Philly, could offer Noah Hanifin up for RD-Phillipe Myers and prospect LD-Yegor Zamula ( a former Hitmen defenseman) Plus Johnny for C-Morgan Frost and RW-Wade Allison, and a 2020 1st Rd Phi pick.
 

GumbyCan2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
3,042
1,345
Warm & Sunny
You know, it might be prudent to offer up Johnny G, rather than Money, to see if a viable young C can be be had in return. Replace Money at C with new "star" and move Money to "off-wing" RW and move MattTkruck up on LW. Seeing as how Money is a (former) sniper type scorer and not a play driving C, he should be able to adjust to W appropriately, a little less ominous defensive reads and coverage requirement. I could see him becoming a Pacioretty type equivalent producing winger, with a quality puck-controlling, playmaking C. Only thing is, Money would need to be physically more involved and toughen up along the boards and behind opposing net, etc. Patches has done admirably at this most his career, thus aiding his production.
Possible C's for Johnny?
If to Philly, could offer Noah Hanifin up for RD-Phillipe Myers and prospect LD-Yegor Zamula ( a former Hitmen defenseman) Plus Johnny for C-Morgan Frost and RW-Wade Allison, and a 2020 1st Rd Phi pick.
Lines of: MTk - Morgan Frost -Sean Monahan
A Mangi- M Backs- E Lindy
D Dube - S Benny - Wade Allison
M Lucic- D Ryan - "Rookie RW" prospect ?
D could be:
Juuso Valimaki - Rasmus Andy
Captain Gio - Phillipe Myers
O Kylington/ - other new R.H.S. D?
"R" Yegor Zamula
Sorry folks, didn't mean to offer up a pipe dream, without a band and a venue!
 
Last edited:

GumbyCan2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
3,042
1,345
Warm & Sunny
I am always very wary of taking a 'budding star' that has the luxury of playing with an established star (G) and another star that has a track record over over 3 years (Couts).

It could be worse. But to me if you're trading an asset and your return is makes you say, 'this could have been a lot worse, I guess.' You shouldn't trade the asset. The only way, if our GM had any IQ, Gaudreau is moved if literally you go 'Well, I couldn't say no to that either.'

Look, if the trade is Buffalo's 8th pick, Cozens and Reinhart for Gaudreau + some mix of our talent; then yeah. I couldn't say no to that. I wouldn't blame Treliving one bit for making that trade. But, like, Konecny + 1st for Gaudreau does nothing for me. We are a worse team today than yesterday.

Unless, your new young 'budding star' brings a flare, enthusiasm that was missing and gels with the core, growing into better team mojo and brings a stronger drive to succeed. Any trade can be a bit of a crap shoot, yes. But waying options of " standing pat", to " bring in a " new shiny toy" should be the mantra.
Do we trust Johnny to lead us in new drive to succeed.
A new attitude to overtake games and make us winners.
 

GumbyCan2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
3,042
1,345
Warm & Sunny
Past 3 playoff runs have proven he is easily shadowed and loses his impact easily. Not much different with Money, too. Is that what we want for our Flames. Have a very good season and fizz out in the playoffs. Have a mediocre season, squeak into playoffs, all excited...and ...bomb out again, largely due to our"top scorers" disappearing.
 

GumbyCan2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
3,042
1,345
Warm & Sunny
Why did Gaudreau fall to the 4th round when he was drafted? His stats seem pretty good for his draft year?
Size led to "fear of not strong enuff compete" to overcome size and speed of NHL rosters ( many not wrong on that point). Similar happened to Brayden Point. You just never know for sure.
 

GumbyCan2

Registered User
Jul 7, 2019
3,042
1,345
Warm & Sunny
Size led to "fear of not strong enuff compete" to overcome size and speed of NHL rosters ( many not wrong on that point). Similar happened to Brayden Point. You just never know for sure.
Hey...while I was on that train of thought, I got another thought...
How about Johnny G straight up for Calgarian
' Brayden Point'? TBL would never do this at Johnny's contract etc. Nice dreaming thru my pipe again.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
Sponsor
Apr 27, 2005
33,477
29,394
Past 3 playoff runs have proven he is easily shadowed and loses his impact easily. Not much different with Money, too. Is that what we want for our Flames. Have a very good season and fizz out in the playoffs. Have a mediocre season, squeak into playoffs, all excited...and ...bomb out again, largely due to our"top scorers" disappearing.

Much harder to shadow a player when they aren't their team's only offensive threat.

Look at Tampa. Hard to shadow Kucherov when Point is out there.
 

DFF

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
22,275
6,525
Fix the title

Don't give him away but feel free to trade him for an upgrade
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,391
11,074
Much harder to shadow a player when they aren't their team's only offensive threat.

Look at Tampa. Hard to shadow Kucherov when Point is out there.

This.
I did a deep dive into cup winners, and you need two lines that are equal threats. Essentially teams will have to pick their poison as to who they want to line up their 1D and shutdown forwards against.

It's pretty easy in Calgary. Suffocate Gaudreau, because Monahan won't create anything, and Lindholm will be more concerned about playing the entire 200 feet. Match up your top line against Backlund/Tkachuk, play 50/50 hockey on that line; and let the line smothering Gaudreau absolutely destroy them because only 1 of 3 forwards in that group knows how to effectively play behind his own blueline.

I don't know how many more times I can really say it, Calgary needs a top line centre that can drive his own line; and is an absolute puck hog. The guys like Barkov, Eichel, Barzal and Aho. They'll have the puck all night and keep defences on their feet. If you don't have that... we're just doomed to rinse and repeat in Calgary.
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
18,122
16,154
This.
I did a deep dive into cup winners, and you need two lines that are equal threats. Essentially teams will have to pick their poison as to who they want to line up their 1D and shutdown forwards against.

It's pretty easy in Calgary. Suffocate Gaudreau, because Monahan won't create anything, and Lindholm will be more concerned about playing the entire 200 feet. Match up your top line against Backlund/Tkachuk, play 50/50 hockey on that line; and let the line smothering Gaudreau absolutely destroy them because only 1 of 3 forwards in that group knows how to effectively play behind his own blueline.

I don't know how many more times I can really say it, Calgary needs a top line centre that can drive his own line; and is an absolute puck hog. The guys like Barkov, Eichel, Barzal and Aho. They'll have the puck all night and keep defences on their feet. If you don't have that... we're just doomed to rinse and repeat in Calgary.
Totally agree but top line centre only becomes available in strange blue moon circumstances like O'Reilly.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,955
8,449
Totally agree but top line centre only becomes available in strange blue moon circumstances like O'Reilly.

2020 basically has double rainbows around a blue colored moon....
 

djpatm

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
2,525
929
Calgary
I think people are way too impatient with Gaudreau, myself included.

The guy is ONE season removed from 99 points. Sure, maybe he was figured out by the end of that season and maybe that's why he struggled hard out of the gate, I wanted him gone back then too but MAYBE we should give a player who is a top 10 forward since he joined the league a little more time to adjust his game to account for this? Two seasons ago people thought they figured him out by slashing the shit out of his hands, he adjusted. Now there seems to be a combination of both, teams figuring out a more effective way of smothering him and a coach who is struggling to use him effectively, but he was starting to pick it up and figure it out before Covid came around. Wasn't he back to PPG after the coaching change? Sure, his performance in the bubble left something to be desired but that's a pretty unique circumstance.

I think we shouldn't trade him until next season. We'll have a much better picture of what he is and if he'll stay.
 

Volica

Papa Shango
May 15, 2012
21,391
11,074
Totally agree but top line centre only becomes available in strange blue moon circumstances like O'Reilly.

I mean ROR x 2 to be fair :laugh:

I honestly think the next time a name becomes available, you just throw everything at that team to get it done. We just need a guy who doesn't need Gaudreau to produce down the middle. If this team could in theory keep:

Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund on forward, and add an elite 1C... man... good luck dealing with the Flames 3 lines; OR dealing with one of the most obscene 1-2 combo's in the league.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johnny Hoxville

djpatm

Registered User
Feb 2, 2010
2,525
929
Calgary
If the Flames replaced Monahan with a legitimate #1 C who can fight hard down low I genuinely think we could be the best team in the league. I mean, Gaudreau almost took us to those heights with Monahan, who plays as scared of contact as Johnny.
 

Nanuuk

Registered User
Nov 16, 2013
2,574
1,218
Calgary, Alberta
I think people are way too impatient with Gaudreau, myself included.

The guy is ONE season removed from 99 points. Sure, maybe he was figured out by the end of that season and maybe that's why he struggled hard out of the gate, I wanted him gone back then too but MAYBE we should give a player who is a top 10 forward since he joined the league a little more time to adjust his game to account for this? Two seasons ago people thought they figured him out by slashing the shit out of his hands, he adjusted. Now there seems to be a combination of both, teams figuring out a more effective way of smothering him and a coach who is struggling to use him effectively, but he was starting to pick it up and figure it out before Covid came around. Wasn't he back to PPG after the coaching change? Sure, his performance in the bubble left something to be desired but that's a pretty unique circumstance.

I think we shouldn't trade him until next season. We'll have a much better picture of what he is and if he'll stay.
It is easy to forget that Johnny is a very family orientated guy. Last year his father battled cancer and his grandfather died. Johnny had a lot on his mind and he got better (in terms of playing hockey) towards the end of the year. For me, there is no reason to think that he won't bounce back unless (BIG unless) he is stuck in Canada due to the border closure and his Dad relapses.
 

Fig

Absolute Horse Shirt
Dec 15, 2014
12,955
8,449
It is easy to forget that Johnny is a very family orientated guy. Last year his father battled cancer and his grandfather died. Johnny had a lot on his mind and he got better (in terms of playing hockey) towards the end of the year. For me, there is no reason to think that he won't bounce back unless (BIG unless) he is stuck in Canada due to the border closure and his Dad relapses.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... This on top of his dad's cardiac event two seasons ago? How the heck did I miss/forget this news?

Yep, dude is going out East IMO, but I'd say Treliving is aiming to do him a solid without getting raked over the coals. Kinda like Hamonic.
 

Nanuuk

Registered User
Nov 16, 2013
2,574
1,218
Calgary, Alberta
Whoa, whoa, whoa... This on top of his dad's cardiac event two seasons ago? How the heck did I miss/forget this news?

Yep, dude is going out East IMO, but I'd say Treliving is aiming to do him a solid without getting raked over the coals. Kinda like Hamonic.
I had better back up on that assertion. I am sure I read it somewhere, but can now only find links to his Dad's cardiac issues. My apologies. If I do find a link to back that up, I will post.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->