Does your local NHL team run your local cities house hockey scene?

[DougKnowsBest]

I'm curious if this is something that other NHL teams are doing or if its just the blue jackets. Its something I was thinking about and realized this is the perfect place to stop thinking about it and actually find out.


The blue jackets have recently started running the 8u house programs in Columbus. They have enough teams they can keep their schedule insular and not play teams from outside associations. They don't let the parents be involved, very corporate feel. Next year they will be launching a similar program for 10u house teams. "select" or "travel" teams do not seem to fall into their interests. the cbj also seem to have zero interest in club hockey and only have interest in supporting varsity high school programs.

The network of "chillers" ice rinks in Columbus (that are shitty compared to every other regions rinks ive traveled to) have extremely close ties with the cbj. So any programming changes like this trickle through all 6 facilities and their sheets of ice. USA hockey and the cbj always crows about the size of the chillers adult leagues membership. My hunch has always been the reason the leagues numbers are so high when rated against other cities adult league numbers is that there is no competition in columbus... in other large cities there are multiple adult leagues run by different rinks ran by different people. So statistically they dont show up high on the list because the cities adult league usa hockey numbers are split up


so the questions to you my fellow hf'er in the know.

-do other nhl teams run similar programs that im describing for the house programs? The cbj program is rubbing me the wrong way obviously and im just trying to gauge how off base I may be?

-are the rinks in your city managed by the same company? are your adult leagues difrerent leagues rink to rink?


if anybody wants talk through any of these issues or thinks they have some knowledge you can share with me, lets go. I administer programs at a small association and any market knowledge i learn here helps me help people play hockey

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[patnyrnyg]

Not House Leagues, but almost every rink in the NYC Metro area has a Learn to Play program through either the Rangers, Isles, or Devils. It is billed as the pre-cursor to House. Although some kids will make jump from Jr Rangers/Isles?Devils to travel.

The Flyers have Jr Flyers Learn to Play throughout South Jersey and Eastern PA. My nephew who lives outside of Detroit did a Red Wings Learn to Play when he was about 5 or 6.

 

[Sharkbomb]

^Same with the Washington Capitals. They offer a Learn to Play program that is run by local rinks and is typically only 8 weeks long. Then if kids like it, they can progress into the local rink's own LTP program and then from there they progress to their House League. Hockey has really taken off here in the DC region, I live in the Northern Virginia suburbs and there are a least 4 high quality programs within a few minutes of my home (Caps Academy, Reston Raiders, Ashburn Xtreme and Loudoun Knights). It's crazy the way a few years of success by the Caps have bolstered hockey here.

And the best part about the 8 week program that the Caps offer (and that the local rinks run) is that for the price of those 8 LTP sessions, you get all equipment for free (just the first time, as you can only participate in the Caps LTP once). That means literally everything: all the protective gear, helmet, stick, skates and even an equipment bag. It really helps eliminate that initial entry barrier for most parents, which is having to spend so much on gear only to face the risk that your kid hates it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The Hurricanes run the most prominent house league in the area, as well as the Junior Hurricanes travel teams. This website has a good concise explanation:

Hockey Roadmap - Carolina Junior Hurricanes

Youth hockey in north carolina Understanding the landscape Youth hockey is confusing. Sometimes intentionally so. Whether you’re new to hockey, or just new to North Carolina, let us help you navigate through a successful youth hockey experience for your entire family. STEP #1 Get started POLAR...

carolinajuniorhurricanes.org

The biggest thing the Canes did for local hockey is the First Goal program, which provides younger kids with a full set of equipment AND lessons for $250. According to the website they’ve had over 2,500 kids go through the program since 2016, which even at a very modest retention rate means it has been the feeder for hundreds of older youth players.

Learn to Play: First Goal

The Hurricanes First Goal program, a joint initiative funded by the NHL and NHLPA in conjunction with the league-wide Learn To Play program, provides first-time participants ages 5-9 with hockey equipment and instructional hockey sessions.

www.nhl.com

 

[MartinS82]

Ice Management, which is owned by the Ducks, owns 6 ice rinks with 13 sheets of ice. They run both the house leagues as well as some travel teams (Jr. Ducks and Orange County Hockey Club). Ducks ALSO run the High School Leagues in Orange County that has 50+ teams.

 

[DougKnowsBest]

This is all great information guys. Thank you.

A lot of our parents are upset we are unable to schedule games against Columbus teams now ….. and at the same time a lot of the Columbus parents aren’t happy with the cbj programs

Our high school hockey is through Ohsaa same as football, volleyball, etc

I’m just trying to hone my counter programming pitch and strategy. Of course that starts with market researcher

 

[Yukon Joe]

So of course it's totally different in Canada.

Almost all ice rinks are owned by the municipality as a community service. Not that it doesn't cost to rent ice or anything, but nobody is running it as a for-profit business. Even the Oilers practice rink is technically owned by the government, and is required to be available to the public for a certain number of hours.

Minor hockey is organized through Hockey Canada/Hockey Alberta/Hockey Edmonton, though there are unaffiliated "rebel leagues".

The Oilers have been involved in a Learn to play program, and are now associated with a U18AAA Junior Oilers team, but it's much more incidental to the overall scene than whet others have described.

 

[DougKnowsBest]

Does anyone think there is money to be made from a corporately ran house program?

I think it’s interesting there seem to be so many different types of organizations that run programs. I’m curious if on nhl teams budgets that run house programs… if teams organizations see the one item as long term investments in future fans or if they are looking for a return on investment annually

 

[tarheelhockey]

Does anyone think there is money to be made from a corporately ran house program?

I think it’s interesting there seem to be so many different types of organizations that run programs. I’m curious if on nhl teams budgets that run house programs… if teams organizations see the one item as long term investments in future fans or if they are looking for a return on investment annually

There doesn't seem to be much money to be made in hockey in general, outside of the NHL. It's an expensive sport to operate.

 

[patnyrnyg]

^Same with the Washington Capitals. They offer a Learn to Play program that is run by local rinks and is typically only 8 weeks long. Then if kids like it, they can progress into the local rink's own LTP program and then from there they progress to their House League. Hockey has really taken off here in the DC region, I live in the Northern Virginia suburbs and there are a least 4 high quality programs within a few minutes of my home (Caps Academy, Reston Raiders, Ashburn Xtreme and Loudoun Knights). It's crazy the way a few years of success by the Caps have bolstered hockey here.

And the best part about the 8 week program that the Caps offer (and that the local rinks run) is that for the price of those 8 LTP sessions, you get all equipment for free (just the first time, as you can only participate in the Caps LTP once). That means literally everything: all the protective gear, helmet, stick, skates and even an equipment bag. It really helps eliminate that initial entry barrier for most parents, which is having to spend so much on gear only to face the risk that your kid hates it.

Here, there is no limit on how many times you can participate in LTP, but they only give the free equipment once. My daughter's LTP was Jr Rangers, she did 3 10-weeek sessions, and in the third she actually did double. (it was once a week and we wanted to see how she would do with twice per week). Following year, she did Jr Rangers Girls League, that was supposed to be "travel", but there was only 4 teams. With covid, they decided to keep everything as a house league. She was set to do it again and it got canceled so we jumped to House League at our local rink. I did hear one parent saying you CAN get new free gear, but forget the details. Apparently, they didn't check it to closely. But yes, at first it was 10 sessions. I think $300 and included head-to-toe equipment. Her first session all the coaches were Rangers employees. Same for the Girls "league". Her 2nd, and 3rd at a small rink 1 coach was a Rangers employee, the 2nd was a rink employee and always someone different. Rangers employee ran the session. The other one she did in the 3rd session was at a regular rink, 2 Rangers employees and a few rink employees were coaching. Rangers alumni appeared a few times. Brian Mullen and Stephane Matteau came to a few of her practices. Adam Graves does them also, but he was never at my daughter's.

 

[patnyrnyg]

So of course it's totally different in Canada.

Almost all ice rinks are owned by the municipality as a community service. Not that it doesn't cost to rent ice or anything, but nobody is running it as a for-profit business. Even the Oilers practice rink is technically owned by the government, and is required to be available to the public for a certain number of hours.

Minor hockey is organized through Hockey Canada/Hockey Alberta/Hockey Edmonton, though there are unaffiliated "rebel leagues".

The Oilers have been involved in a Learn to play program, and are now associated with a U18AAA Junior Oilers team, but it's much more incidental to the overall scene than whet others have described.

There are a bunch of rinks in NJ that are publicly owned. I believe in most cases, the hockey teams are a separate organization, but don't take that as gospel. I did notice one team advertising try-outs for next season in a few weeks. They posted tuition prices and it was cheaper for residents vs non-residents. The difference is not astronomical and the price for non-residents is less than the cost for my daughter's team (for skaters, not sure if the other team offers a goalie discount). Our team uses 2 rinks. One is owned by a HS in jersey, the other is privately owned on Staten Island.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Does anyone think there is money to be made from a corporately ran house program?

I think it’s interesting there seem to be so many different types of organizations that run programs. I’m curious if on nhl teams budgets that run house programs… if teams organizations see the one item as long term investments in future fans or if they are looking for a return on investment annually

I actually think it makes a lot of sense for them. Sure, on paper it may be a loss leader, but think about it this way.

For ~$300, a kid gets free gear once, and 10 lessons. I'm not sure who the corporate partners are for all these programs (for the Rangers' programs it's Pure Hockey). If they like it, they can come back the following go-around and start playing in games. Look at what the return on investment will typically be for a kid that decides they love it:

-A lifetime of buying new gear at market rates as they grow. Sponsorships (such as from Pure Hockey) that would automatically make them a preferred retailer for a parent who's not familiar with hockey but needs to buy the kid new gear when they outgrow the original set. For Dads who want to share in the hobby with their kids, they will also buy at least some gear (skates, a stick, at the very minimum) as well as pucks, nets, training aids, etc. If sales are up for the business partners, the local team can charge more for the sponsorships in future years. It eliminates the biggest barrier to parents letting their kids play hockey, but doesn't eliminate a lifetime of costs.
-A fan who will probably want to go to games at some point (ticket sales + for the family too), possibly pulling adults who previously didn't know much about hockey into fandom (and buying merch). Think team gear at every major holiday if the kid really likes it, and season tickets for the most diehard/wealthy.
-5-10 years of registration fees in a house league at a minimum, USA Hockey player registration, etc. Player registration is also lucrative because it allows USA Hockey to fund higher level development and showcase the "growing number of kids playing hockey."
-Perhaps, for the rare kid who turns out to be extremely talented, a kid that really likes the local team, and may be inclined to take a discount to play for their favorite team someday.

To me, and strictly from a business standpoint, it seems like a worthwhile investment to make that pays off in the long run for everyone involved if the structure of the leagues is generally competitive, gives everyone who wants to play the chance to do so, and exposes the best kids to higher level competition that's age appropriate.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Does anyone think there is money to be made from a corporately ran house program?

I think it’s interesting there seem to be so many different types of organizations that run programs. I’m curious if on nhl teams budgets that run house programs… if teams organizations see the one item as long term investments in future fans or if they are looking for a return on investment annually

Money to be made on a house program? Depends on a few things. 1) how many participants? 2) how much do you pay for the ice? 3) Do you have volunteer or paid coaches? 4) does the program itself need to have insurance or are they convered by the rink insurance? 5) How much are you charging players?

I think the real benefit to the rink/program is long-term. Most parents are not going to jump right into travel. So, start with Learn-to-Play, then house league, then travel. Then there are secondary benefits. IF the kid is in house league and is really into it, maybe the parents spend money on skating lessons or other private lessons that rink may offer, or the kid wants to go to public sessions, etc. How that benfits the rink would all depend on how everything is set up. Is the skating school a completely separate company or is it run by the rink? Does the rink own the hockey organization or does the org just book and rent ice time?

 

[patnyrnyg]

I actually think it makes a lot of sense for them. Sure, on paper it may be a loss leader, but think about it this way.

For ~$300, a kid gets free gear once, and 10 lessons. I'm not sure who the corporate partners are for all these programs (for the Rangers' programs it's Pure Hockey). If they like it, they can come back the following go-around and start playing in games. Look at what the return on investment will typically be for a kid that decides they love it:

-A lifetime of buying new gear at market rates as they grow. Sponsorships (such as from Pure Hockey) that would automatically make them a preferred retailer for a parent who's not familiar with hockey but needs to buy the kid new gear when they outgrow the original set. For Dads who want to share in the hobby with their kids, they will also buy at least some gear (skates, a stick, at the very minimum) as well as pucks, nets, training aids, etc. If sales are up for the business partners, the local team can charge more for the sponsorships in future years. It eliminates the biggest barrier to parents letting their kids play hockey, but doesn't eliminate a lifetime of costs.
-A fan who will probably want to go to games at some point (ticket sales + for the family too), possibly pulling adults who previously didn't know much about hockey into fandom (and buying merch). Think team gear at every major holiday if the kid really likes it, and season tickets for the most diehard/wealthy.
-5-10 years of registration fees in a house league at a minimum, USA Hockey player registration, etc. Player registration is also lucrative because it allows USA Hockey to fund higher level development and showcase the "growing number of kids playing hockey."
-Perhaps, for the rare kid who turns out to be extremely talented, a kid that really likes the local team, and may be inclined to take a discount to play for their favorite team someday.

To me, and strictly from a business standpoint, it seems like a worthwhile investment to make that pays off in the long run for everyone involved if the structure of the leagues is generally competitive, gives everyone who wants to play the chance to do so, and exposes the best kids to higher level competition that's age appropriate.

I have not been back to Pure Hockey since I brought my daughter to get fitted for the gear 4 years ago and and just about everyone in my program buys from Monkey Sports as it is MUCH closer than Pure Hockey, so not sure the lifetime of buying new gear is true. Our donation bin is very active and many of our parents buy stuff 2nd hand on facebook marketplace and sideline swap. At least the more expensive equipment.

But yes, giving the initial set of equipment is a huge selling point. I remember when my daughter first started there was a kid in her group who after 3 weeks was crying and miserable. His father convinced him to go back on to finish the session then said to me, "at least I didn't have to buy all that equipment." Never saw them again after that day. Secondly, the equipment they give is not top of the line. When she started my brother said, (Another nephew had done it the previous year) that the gear they give is fine for a novice program, but if she ever plays travel this wont be good enough.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I have not been back to Pure Hockey since I brought my daughter to get fitted for the gear 4 years ago and and just about everyone in my program buys from Monkey Sports as it is MUCH closer than Pure Hockey, so not sure the lifetime of buying new gear is true. Our donation bin is very active and many of our parents buy stuff 2nd hand on facebook marketplace and sideline swap. At least the more expensive equipment.

But yes, giving the initial set of equipment is a huge selling point. I remember when my daughter first started there was a kid in her group who after 3 weeks was crying and miserable. His father convinced him to go back on to finish the session then said to me, "at least I didn't have to buy all that equipment." Never saw them again after that day. Secondly, the equipment they give is not top of the line. When she started my brother said, (Another nephew had done it the previous year) that the gear they give is fine for a novice program, but if she ever plays travel this wont be good enough.

Makes sense, but also you're on here, so that means you know a thing or two about hockey. I think their target market with this strategy is geared more towards the parent who has no idea what hockey is all about, their son/daughter needs an activity and, oh yeah, it's free. Pure Hockey sets up their kid, their kid takes to it and has a really good time and wants to do it...they're still not thoroughly convinced this is what their kid wants longer term, but their kid is (single digit age), it seems harmless enough, and they need new gear. Where to go? "Oh, right, I'll just call that place that set them up the first time because I still don't know anything about hockey equipment, and I just learned what icing was last week."

OK, so maybe not literally a lifetime of gear, as things like proximity certainly matter more as you point out, but I do think companies like Pure Hockey do a fair amount of repeat business following the initial gear for the kids that stick with hockey. Plus, as you mention, they're not giving away high end gear (which is a reasonable expectation for free). And personally - and a bit of a sidebar (and this also comes from a lifetime of baseball and being more involved in youth sports earlier in life) - I'm also not a huge fan of expensive gear on kids. As you point out, if a kid is good enough to qualify for an elite local area team, then it makes sense to invest more money, but I've always felt as long as gear is serviceable and is sized appropriately for a kid that matters far more than the extra features with the asterisk that obviously cheap unreliable/unsafe gear should be avoided at all costs. But I also think it can send the wrong message because kids often wind up with the misconception that more expensive gear will make you better...it can help you at some point, but I really think kids need to be growing up thinking that the only thing that's going to make them better is hard work and practice.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Makes sense, but also you're on here, so that means you know a thing or two about hockey. I think their target market with this strategy is geared more towards the parent who has no idea what hockey is all about, their son/daughter needs an activity and, oh yeah, it's free. Pure Hockey sets up their kid, their kid takes to it and has a really good time and wants to do it...they're still not thoroughly convinced this is what their kid wants longer term, but their kid is (single digit age), it seems harmless enough, and they need new gear. Where to go? "Oh, right, I'll just call that place that set them up the first time because I still don't know anything about hockey equipment, and I just learned what icing was last week."

OK, so maybe not literally a lifetime of gear, as things like proximity certainly matter more as you point out, but I do think companies like Pure Hockey do a fair amount of repeat business following the initial gear for the kids that stick with hockey. Plus, as you mention, they're not giving away high end gear (which is a reasonable expectation for free). And personally - and a bit of a sidebar (and this also comes from a lifetime of baseball and being more involved in youth sports earlier in life) - I'm also not a huge fan of expensive gear on kids. As you point out, if a kid is good enough to qualify for an elite local area team, then it makes sense to invest more money, but I've always felt as long as gear is serviceable and is sized appropriately for a kid that matters far more than the extra features with the asterisk that obviously cheap unreliable/unsafe gear should be avoided at all costs. But I also think it can send the wrong message because kids often wind up with the misconception that more expensive gear will make you better...it can help you at some point, but I really think kids need to be growing up thinking that the only thing that's going to make them better is hard work and practice.

not so sure about that. Only place I ever see the Learn to Play programs advertised is during Rangers broadcasts. Secondly, by the time the kid starts needing new equipment, parents start to learn about where to go and the availability of 2nd hand gear. Secondly, I never played. Everything I know about youth hockey is stuff I have picked up since my daughter started playing.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

not so sure about that. Only place I ever see the Learn to Play programs advertised is during Rangers broadcasts. Secondly, by the time the kid starts needing new equipment, parents start to learn about where to go and the availability of 2nd hand gear. Secondly, I never played. Everything I know about hockey is stuff I have picked up since my daughter started playing.

I've also seen local towns / town papers put out information on these sorts of programs from time to time. Sort of an all kinds of activities "what's going on in this area over the next few weeks" kind of thing...where it ends up alongside storytelling at the library, an outdoor movie, etc. kind of thing.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I've also seen local towns / town papers put out information on these sorts of programs from time to time. Sort of an all kinds of activities "what's going on in this area over the next few weeks" kind of thing...where it ends up alongside storytelling at the library, an outdoor movie, etc. kind of thing.

town papers? those still exist?