Speculation: Does This Team Have A Mandate To Not Start Fights Or Engage in "Extracurriculars?"

[hockeyes]

"The good old days" of hockey - every team had one or two softies (usually the smaller guys) but the vast majority of players would be willing to stand up for themselves or team mates. Things started to change in the 90's that way and that begat the "enforcer" era of largely predetermined tilts.
With the enforcer now gone, there ain't much left.
I do strongly agree with the one poster who noted that this team is a perfect representation of the GM.

Guys in the 80's were making peanuts compared to today. Players today don't need many contracts to cash in and be comfortably retired. I wouldn't say players are only playing for the money, there's obviously guys who love the game, but there is a big difference knowing you can wash out of the league and still be set for life vs desperately trying to get whatever scraps you can before your body can't keep up.

Look how many years Dion mailed it in before hanging them up, guy could have worked hard and maintained a spot for him on a roaster somewhere in the league but what was the point. He even said he stopped going for big hits because he didn't feel like fighting, that's an attitude that implies his personal comfort was the priority and he was happy to just go through the motions and collect his paycheck. The league is full of guys who fall off a cliff after getting paid, the incentive just isn't there anymore.

Some teams are better than others at identifying what motivates their guys and is willing to make the hard decisions to ship them out.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Our "tough guys" become neutered when they get to the Leafs. Simmonds got a hand injury so I can forgive not fighting but dude doesnt even finish his checks. Muzzin, remember when he first came to the Leafs and he was hitting everything in sight? Clifford, neutered. Martin, neutered.

 

[Muston Atthews]

When it’s a close or tied game you take down the # and deal with it later. You don’t squander a PP opportunity

And yet we never take down the number and we still lost the game.

Sure showed them

A lot of Mike "We'll get em back on the PP" Babcock's here. We need to make sure we get this PP to make sure we win this meaningless regular season game. That'll show Zach that we got his back!

 

[Lightsol]

Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with "orders from the top" or "chemistry" or any of that shit. I think it has a lot to do with how the refs treat this team; like they're still the 2002 Leafs with Domi and Tucker and need to be watched for even a hint of someone stepping out of line. Does anyone remember Muzzin's "introduction" to the team? Taking multiple penalties in his first few games for the "crime" of throwing his weight around?

People like to point at Kadri "sticking up for his teammates". Apparently they've already forgotten that the NHL had suspensions ready for every incident. Isn't it funny that Kadri hasn't taken a suspension in Colorado?

No one sticks up for other teammates on this team because any attempt TO stick up for a teammate leads to the NHL coming down on the team like a ton of bricks. Every time.

 

[Cobra777]

This Leafs team, despite the newfound "toughness, grit, and character" approach still seems as soft and unengaging as ever, and I'm starting to believe it's an intentional message from the coaching staff and management, and not solely on the players.

Take the games against Calgary a little bit ago. Holl absolutely crushed Gaudrea and the Flames did not forget it. Tkachuk fought Holl to send a message, and Lucic and Tanev went after Matthews in response. Hyman got injured on a dirty play and what did the Leafs do? Nothing. This isn't the first time Edler has tried to injure a Leaf as in a game earlier this season he tried to take out Spezza, but of course no one did anything about it. Jordie Benn on the Canucks however was quick to challenge Simmonds after the latter layed out Quinn Hughes, young star defenseman on the Canucks.

The last time the Leafs engaged in any sort of brouhaha as a response to a perceived slight that you see teams across the league engage in was back in 2016 against these same Canucks when the game was getting out of hand, Martin went after a rookie, Miller after Martin, and Andersen even joined in. Earlier that game Burrows went after Rielly, a tough guy went after Komarov, and Martin did what he did in response. Despite Martin remaining on the team for another two years (along with agitators in Kadri and Komarov, and another tough guy in Polak) nothing of the sort ever really happened again. There've been a couple of other multi-player fights and scrums but never in response to one of our players getting laid out or hurt. Not when Andersson shoved Matthews into the boards and aggravated his wrist, not when Robertson was hurt in his first game of the season, and certainly not tonight when Hyman was kneed. You look up Leafs brawls on YouTube and there hasn't really been one since 2017.

Now I'm not asking this team to go out and have a line brawl every night, far from it. I don't want my thread to come off like that. My main point is that this team, despite added emphasis on protecting the goalies, does not truly stand up for themselves when they've been wronged or one of their own teammates has been targeted or hurt. But why? It's not like some of the guys we've brought in haven't played that way before or done that themselves. Muzzin has fought in response to a teammate getting hit. So has Simmonds. And Bogosian. Thornton has done it not once, but twice, though it was in response to he himself getting done dirty but he's participated in scrums to defend his teammates.

My question is why, now that all of these guys are here on the Toronto Maple Leafs, is this willingness to stand up for their teammates and themselves all of the sudden gone? Why does no one do ANYTHING when Matthews gets crosschecked hard in the back? Or Tavares gets run? It's not like these guys haven't done it before, and the incoming Foligno has certainly stood up for his teammates, is he going to be looking the other way now himself when he gets here and one of his new teammates is laid out?

It's infuriating to watch our players time and time again have liberties taken on them and our team just skate away. What is our revenge supposed to be the powerplay? Fat lot of good that's done us in the past month. I'm not saying if someone had done something to Edler earlier in the season after he tried to do Spezza it would've been deterred from injuring Hyman, but it might've.

Why is this franchise going out of their way to add toughness and grit if they aren't going to allow the players they acquire to actually play that way? Why don't they want them to play that way? Are they afraid of retribution? Yeah our pacifist approach has really protected our guys. Do they just not want the media drama? Are they afraid the league would come down harder on us than other teams for any hypothetical brawls or revenge hits?

Only guy that can fight on this team is Simmonds and he broke a bone in his hand or wrist and was out 6 weeks, cut the guy some slack, Bogo is a physical body checker but cannot fight as I watched numerous vids on that that while the rest are just plain disappointing in that department and Muzzin turtled against Tkachuck, Thorton was brought in because he is a play maker passer and for experience, a big body that won't get easily pushed off the puck but at his age he is in no way added grit or toughness and 3 guys in Hyman, Bogo, Simmonds who just came back from 6 weeks injury and Foligno has not even played a game yet and all of a sudden this is supposed to be some bad hombre team? When we had Orr, McClaren, Mark Frazer, Uncle Leo, Kadri, big Cody Franzen etc that team was tough and for a 1st time led 4-1 in game 7 against Boston and Carlyle benched his 4th line most of the second half of the 3rd so we had no push back and well you know the result of that one. Boston fans were leaving in Exodus half way through the 3rd go figure.

But then people bitched and complained about having too many face punchers or goons or whatever so seems like nobody is happy either way.

 

[Captain14]

When it’s a close or tied game you take down the # and deal with it later. You don’t squander a PP opportunity

While I agree with this, I wouldn’t necessarily worry about squandering PP opportunities anymore. Our PP now gives up better scoring chances to the team a man short.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Only guy that can fight on this team is Simmonds and he broke a bone in his hand or wrist and was out 6 weeks, cut the guy some slack, Bogo is a physical body checker but cannot fight as I watched numerous vids on that that while the rest are just plain disappointing in that department and Muzzin turtled against Tkachuck, Thorton was brought in because he is a play maker passer and for experience, a big body that won't get easily pushed off the puck but at his age he is in no way added grit or toughness and 3 guys in Hyman, Bogo, Simmonds who just came back from 6 weeks injury and Foligno has not even played a game yet and all of a sudden this is supposed to be some bad hombre team? When we had Orr, McClaren, Mark Frazer, Uncle Leo, Kadri, big Cody Franzen etc that team was tough and for a 1st time led 4-1 in game 7 against Boston and Carlyle benched his 4th line most of the second half of the 3rd so we had no push back and well you know the result of that one. Boston fans were leaving in Exodus half way through the 3rd go figure.

But then people bitched and complained about having too many face punchers or goons or whatever so seems like nobody is happy either way.

I am not looking for fighters, I am looking for some physical play. When was the last time Muzzin laid someone out? OR hit someone really hard? When was the last time Simmonds did that? Simmonds skates around out there like he thinks he is some skilled player. Doing nothing out there. When was the last time Bogo laid someone out? Or Holl? I still think it's way too easy to play against this team. Still not sure if this is a team or just bunch of individuals looking out for their own brand.

 

[Torontonian]

When it’s a close or tied game you take down the # and deal with it later. You don’t squander a PP opportunity

If its a playoff game I understand the importance of a power play, but when its game 42 of the regular season and you are 20 points ahead from the last playoff spot I don't think that powerplay opportunity is a big deal.

This isn't the first time for this kind of stuff, we have seen multiple times through out the years of dirty hits or a questionable hit on one of our star players to have the team have 0 reaction.

 

[Cotton]

This might help explain.

 

[PromisedLand]

This is might help explain.

LMAO This is freakin amazing

 

[HolyCrap]

This is might help explain.

Hahaha. So true.

 

[Stonehands1990]

If its a playoff game I understand the importance of a power play, but when its game 42 of the regular season and you are 20 points ahead from the last playoff spot I don't think that powerplay opportunity is a big deal.

This isn't the first time for this kind of stuff, we have seen multiple times through out the years of dirty hits or a questionable hit on one of our star players to have the team have 0 reaction.

But the player we’re supposed to go after was ejected from the game

 

[Leafs87]

I really wondered why everyone is playing so soft this year.
we’re a soft team but now even Muzzin and Simmonds aren’t engaging physically

 

[Leaftors]

You must have played hockey or other team sports
Almost always you can tell people’s ages here and if they played team sports especially hockey or lacrosse
Almost always , ....

I’m not very old and grew up playing hockey, and there was bench clearing brawls, parent fights, kids getting sticks smashed over their heads... the list goes on. As I grew up, and started playing higher level hockey those things started to disappear as winning and the fact that refs only penalize the retaliation had an affect on taking out players. I do agree with standing up for your team, but as long as the time is right, and if it doesn’t jeopardize the team being able to win.

 

[Leaftors]

But the player we’re supposed to go after was ejected from the game

I had this argument in the PGT. Specifically posters asking why simmonds didn’t go after him. He wasn’t on the ice, and then Edler was gone.

 

[egd27]

I am sure their immense amount of skill, disciplined team game, and excellent goaltending would say they play a much larger part in their success, as it does for literally every contending team.

Let's also not pretend like we never stand up for guys. We do and we will. We just are smart about it. If we, for example, went after Edler right away, we would have lost a prime scoring chance that Kerfoot generated right after that play happened. I would rather have that scoring chance or not take a penalty than go after Edler in that situation.

Every team in the league sees they can liberties without repercussions but wow, we got a scoring chance.

Pretty small picture thinking.

 

[authentic]

Our "tough guys" become neutered when they get to the Leafs. Simmonds got a hand injury so I can forgive not fighting but dude doesnt even finish his checks. Muzzin, remember when he first came to the Leafs and he was hitting everything in sight? Clifford, neutered. Martin, neutered.

I just don't get the point in acquiring those types of players to have them turn soft...?

 

[67leafs]

It’s all about the playoffs.......pretty sure these guys are all in protection mode in order to stay healthy.

 

[OVO16]

Im convinced if Tom Wilson wears a Leaf Jersey...he'll have 2 total hits combined for the Season.

 

[OVO16]

Its def a cultural thing.

Coaching/Management has instilled a "Just take the Power Play and make them pay on there" attitude.

 

[PromisedLand]

Its def a cultural thing.

Coaching/Management has instilled a "Just take the Power Play and make them pay on there" attitude.

what powerplay?

 

[Cobra777]

I am not looking for fighters, I am looking for some physical play. When was the last time Muzzin laid someone out? OR hit someone really hard? When was the last time Simmonds did that? Simmonds skates around out there like he thinks he is some skilled player. Doing nothing out there. When was the last time Bogo laid someone out? Or Holl? I still think it's way too easy to play against this team. Still not sure if this is a team or just bunch of individuals looking out for their own brand.

I am the 1st one to say this team is too easy to play against, been sayin for a couple seasons now and theres nothing wrong with fighters providing they can also play and contribute, it keeps other teams honest when you have them. Obviously you missed the part of my post which stated Simmonds broke his hand or wrist and just came back from a 6 week injury and everyone is piling on the guy because he is not up to game speed and because with that injury not going out punching someones face in. For the life of me I can't understand that. It would be like expecting you to move heavy rocks if you had a bad back injury that you just came back from.

 

[PromisedLand]

Jake freakin Gardiner dropped the gloves in the game tonight; heck he went after Killorn and started the fight.

It is definitely a culture thing.

Who would have thought that Gardiner would drop the gloves and start a fight? Leafs need to man the F up and not wuss around. Show opposition they mean businesses and won't be pushed around; if not then you will be pushed around - while your whining to the ref will fall on deaf ears

 

[Antropovsky]

Jake freakin Gardiner dropped the gloves in the game tonight; heck he went after Killorn and started the fight.

It is definitely a culture thing.

Who would have thought that Gardiner would drop the gloves and start a fight? Leafs need to man the F up and not wuss around. Show opposition they mean businesses and won't be pushed around; if not then you will be pushed around - while your whining to the ref will fall on deaf ears

It was Gardiner who through the suicide pass to Necas. It was not much of a fight... Gardiner throws punches like Semin.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I just don't get the point in acquiring those types of players to have them turn soft...?

There’s the sticky wicket of it all right here. Why are the Leafs bothering to go out of their way to get these tough and gritty guys if they won’t allow them to play that way at all?