Speculation: Does the Horton Contract Change the Perspective of Salary Retention?

[Drew75]

Not sure if this will get merged - but thought it warranted a separate discussion ...

If Phaneuf can bring a solid return with some salary retention (no more than say $2mil) - normally, we'd not be in favor of that - but I'm wondering how the Horton Contract impacts that?

Essentially, even if we retained $2mil on Phaneuf, because of the Horton Contract we can still go up to $5.3 mil over the cap. We probably wouldn't use it in the next couple of years - but the retention on Phaneuf would essentially be covered by that for 5 of the next 6 years - does that change our willingness to do it?

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[egd27]

Not sure if this will get merged - but thought it warranted a separate discussion ...

If Phaneuf can bring a solid return with some salary retention (no more than say $2mil) - normally, we'd not be in favor of that - but I'm wondering how the Horton Contract impacts that?

Essentially, even if we retained $2mil on Phaneuf, because of the Horton Contract we can still go up to $5.3 mil over the cap. We probably wouldn't use it in the next couple of years - but the retention on Phaneuf would essentially be covered by that for 5 of the next 6 years - does that change our willingness to do it?

Yes and no.

We still have to ice a full team within the confines of the cap, it's not like we get to spend and extra $5.3 mil on the "active" roster.

 

[The Missing Piece]

The Horton deal makes it hard for us to fit under the cap in the offseason. Other than that we are good.

 

[Canada4Gold]

The Horton deal essentially erased Clarkson's cap hit, if we ignore Horton, our 23 man roster + retention + whatever must be within the cap. Whether getting rid of Clarkson helps that or not, it might.

 

[Grant]

The Horton deal makes it hard for us to fit under the cap in the offseason. Other than that we are good.

You can go 10% over the cap in the offseason. Horton's contract is a non issue.

 

[headwire]

You can go 10% over the cap in the offseason. Horton's contract is a non issue.

Horton's contract IS basically the 10% in the offseason. You then have to be cap compliant before the season starts before you can put Horton on LTIR.

 

[DJIncognito]

If the Leafs spend to the cap and then Horton somehow recovers and returns to play - what would happen to the cap hit? Would we be allowed to remain over the cap because he was on LTIR or would a trade need to be made or a buyout happen in order to stay below the cap.

 

[indigobuffalo]

The Horton deal makes it hard for us to fit under the cap in the offseason. Other than that we are good.

You can go 10% over the cap in the offseason. Horton's contract is a non issue.

Horton's contract IS basically the 10% in the offseason. You then have to be cap compliant before the season starts before you can put Horton on LTIR.

This is bang on. The Horton contract isn't without it's own issues but I'll take $5.25M cap space in the regular season versus an extra $5.3M in the off-season any say of the week.

Horton's deal is 7.6% of today's salary cap max, so the Leafs can only go 2.4% over the cap in the off-season now, thanks to Horton.

If the Leafs spend to the cap and then Horton somehow recovers and returns to play - what would happen to the cap hit? Would we be allowed to remain over the cap because he was on LTIR or would a trade need to be made or a buyout happen in order to stay below the cap.

It depends when he comes back. If we're talking during the regular season, then the Leafs would have to move out salary to make room for Horton, as once he joined the roster he would be off LTIR and then would count against the cap.

UNLESS it happens during the playoffs, as there is no cap during the playoffs.

That is why CHI went so crazy after Vermette etc. because Patrick Kane is on LTIR, and he won't be back until the playoffs, so the Hawks were able to add Kane's contract in rentals and then they still get Kane back for the playoffs, basically giving them a $6.3M bonus on the cap.

IF Horton were able to return in the off-season, then it wouldn't matter because players can only be placed on LTIR once the season starts, so that $5.3 cap hit counts the same against the off-season cap one-way-or-the-other.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Not sure if this will get merged - but thought it warranted a separate discussion ...

If Phaneuf can bring a solid return with some salary retention (no more than say $2mil) - normally, we'd not be in favor of that - but I'm wondering how the Horton Contract impacts that?

Essentially, even if we retained $2mil on Phaneuf, because of the Horton Contract we can still go up to $5.3 mil over the cap. We probably wouldn't use it in the next couple of years - but the retention on Phaneuf would essentially be covered by that for 5 of the next 6 years - does that change our willingness to do it?

I don't think OP, that you understand what the Horton contract does.

LTIR isn't a cap credit.

The Leafs didn't free up $10M on the cap with this trade (Clarkson's $5.25+Horton's $5.3M).

If the Leafs retained salary on Phaneuf the retained salary would still count against the Leafs' cap irrespective of Horton's contract being on LTIR.

So the answer is that it has zero impact for salary retention.

 

[Tak7]

The Leafs don't just have a free $5.3 million in cap space now, or in the off-season, even with Horton on LTIR.

Things get complicated in the off-season with LTIR contracts - ask Boston and Philly. But basically Horton's deal still counts against the Leafs cap during the off-season, but comes of the books when teams need to be cap complaint (first week of October, I think)

 

[Morguee]

Does LTIR count if a team is below the cap basement?

 

[Ricky Bobby]

You can only retain cap space on 3 players in a season.

Phaneuf has 6 more years left on his deal. 6 years is a very very long time when it comes to building a team. To put 6 years into perspective it'll be 6 years ago this June that we drafted Kadri and dealt for Kessel.

Retaining space for 6 years on Phaneuf is non-starter in my eyes. What's very likely is we take back a bad contract with 2 or 3 years left on it. Think guys like Weiss, Vinny, Hemsky, Richards, etc.

 

[PuckMagi]

Not sure if this will get merged - but thought it warranted a separate discussion ...

If Phaneuf can bring a solid return with some salary retention (no more than say $2mil) - normally, we'd not be in favor of that - but I'm wondering how the Horton Contract impacts that?

Essentially, even if we retained $2mil on Phaneuf, because of the Horton Contract we can still go up to $5.3 mil over the cap. We probably wouldn't use it in the next couple of years - but the retention on Phaneuf would essentially be covered by that for 5 of the next 6 years - does that change our willingness to do it?

we have more cap space because we don't have clarkson. i don't think we should waste that space just retaining salary.

for people who don't understand the Horton contract... just pretend like he's not on the team. it literally doesn't matter at all. just pretend like we traded clarkson for nothing.

 

[indigobuffalo]

You can only retain cap space on 3 players in a season.

Phaneuf has 6 more years left on his deal. 6 years is a very very long time when it comes to building a team. To put 6 years into perspective it'll be 6 years ago this June that we drafted Kadri and dealt for Kessel.

Retaining space for 6 years on Phaneuf is non-starter in my eyes. What's very likely is we take back a bad contract with 2 or 3 years left on it. Think guys like Weiss, Vinny, Hemsky, Richards, etc.

I believe it's at a time not in a season.

i.e. If the Leafs retain on Kessel Phaneuf and Bozak then they would be able to retain salary till Bozak's deal ended instead of three more times the next year.

 

[therealkoho]

Does LTIR count if a team is below the cap basement?

you can take the player off of the LTIR list and get over the bottom line

Dave Nonis also said that the Leafs haven't decided if they'll use the Horton's LTIR money to move pieces in the summer but will consider it if the deals right

 

[Morguee]

you can take the player off of the LTIR list and get over the bottom line

Dave Nonis also said that the Leafs haven't decided if they'll use the Horton's LTIR money to move pieces in the summer but will consider it if the deals right

Thank you.

 

[McMatthews]

Big fan of Nathan Horton now.