Does the 35 or over contract count if the player dies

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Roomtemperature, Dec 31, 2010.

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  1. Roomtemperature

    Roomtemperature Registered User

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    God forbid but still does it count against the cap
     
  2. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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  3. Sybil227

    Sybil227 Registered User

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    Can you put him on LTIR then?
     
  4. Tommy Hawk

    Tommy Hawk Registered User

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    I do not think the salary would count because there would be no contract. The contract is considered null and void at the time of death. The player no longer exists. The deceased player would not fit into any of the categories identified in the agreement (active roster, injured roster, non roster, etc.).


    Per the CBA 50.5(d)(i)(b)

    From the day following the last day of Training Camp until and including June 30 of each League Year, "Averaged Club Salary" for each Club shall be calculated as the sum of the following amounts:

    (1) The Averaged Amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses for that League Year for each Player on the Club's Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster and Non Roster; plus

    (2) All amounts earned in that League Year by the Players on account of Deferred Salary and Deferred Bonuses (in accordance with Section 50.2(a) and Section 50.2(b), respectively); plus

    (3) All Ordinary Course Buyout Amounts paid in that League Year (in accordance with Section 50.9(i));plus

    (4) To the extent not counted in (1) above, any amount offered in that League Year by the Club in an Offer Sheet to a Restricted Free Agent from the date of such Offer Sheet until the earliest of the following:
    (A) the Restricted Free Agent signs an SPC with the Club; or (B) the Restricted Free Agent signs an SPC with another Club; plus

    (5) All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older (as of June 30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective), but which Player is not on the Club's Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster or Non Roster, and regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Averaged Club Salary;
     
  5. invictus

    invictus Registered User

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    This could be a great setting for some fan fiction. Pick the most monetarily heavy 35+ player, write it that his play drops off the edge of the earth, and the owner is left wondering whether it is worth it to put in a hit since a professional assassin would surely cost less than paying out the rest of the contract!
     
  6. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    Section 5 doesn't require the player to fit into a category, rather it says the 35+ rule applies if the player doesn't fit into the listed categories.

     
  7. Shawa666

    Shawa666 Registered User

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    Yeah but if the player dies of a non hockey related cause, is he defaulting on his SPC? especially if he dies during the season?
     
  8. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    Technically, according to the wording of Article 50 the cap hit would remain - but you can bet that the NHL/NHLPA would quickly come up with a Cherepanov-like rule change to make the hit go away.
     
  9. Tommy Hawk

    Tommy Hawk Registered User

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    But the player does not exist anymore therefore how can anything still be applicable. There is no "he" or "player" any more therefore all the articles of the CBA that reference "player" would no longer apply.
     
  10. mouser

    mouser Business of Hockey

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    "Player" is a CBA legal definition, not an existential description of whether an individual is alive or dead.

     
  11. terex

    terex Registered User

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    I did not know that a dead person could be party to a contract. Are you sure this is the case?
     
  12. metalfoot

    metalfoot Karlsson!

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    IANAL, but I would think that death typically ends most contracts. Just because there's nobody there to legally contract with.
     
  13. Kimi

    Kimi Registered User

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    The contract to pay someone for playing hockey would be broken; however the cap hit isn't part of that contract, but a result of it in a different legal document. It's the same as a player retiring due to injury, that would end the players contract and still leaves the cap hit for the team.
     
  14. Tommy Hawk

    Tommy Hawk Registered User

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    The person no longer exists and therefore is not party to an SPC, rookie etc.


    True but the player still exists if he retires and would still be a party to the CBA. If he dies, not a party to either agreement.
     
  15. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    FWIW, as the Canucks got a cap exception for Rypien (out for personal reasons), pretty sure a request to remove the cap hit of a deceased player would be approved by all parties.
     
  16. bcrt2000

    bcrt2000 Registered User

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    I think the Cherepanov thing has indirectly set precedent for this. It'd likely not count.
     
  17. Kimi

    Kimi Registered User

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    If they were going to look at it, there's no reason anyone could want a dead player to count. The players want more money going to the players, and the GMs will want to be able to spend to the cap. Both sides want the cap hit gone, so it would be. Only reasons to keep them there is if you don't care about the cap (internal budget), but you're indifferent there and would want to remove for possible deadline deals. The other is a team like the Islanders, who are against the cap minimum and don't like spending money, but chances are there's only one or two of them in the league and the rest are voting against them so it won't matter.
     
  18. King Woodballs

    King Woodballs Captain Awesome

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    you dont want to kill Chris Pronger do you :sarcasm:
     
  19. Skobel24

    Skobel24 #Ignited

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    Quote of the day.
     
  20. sh724

    sh724 Registered User

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    If the players salary would still count couldn't the team just wave them since they would never report to the minor league team voiding the contract
     
  21. kasper11

    kasper11 Registered User

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    I would like to think that the league and union could reach an agreement that it wouldn't count, but....

    the only comparable situation I can think of was Reggie Lewis of the Boston Celtics. He counted against the cap for a couple of years after his death.
     
  22. Hockey Team

    Hockey Team Hunger Force

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    There'd be some concerns about it voiding the cap hit..

    namely some crazy fan killing an underperforming player on a 35+ contract

    It's more likely then you'd think for something like that to happen. Didn't some guy get shot on his way home after scoring an own goal in the world cup?
     
  23. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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  24. Hockey Team

    Hockey Team Hunger Force

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    Well, the description of the incident sounds exactly like what psychopath fans (or people who are losing money as a result of a player) would do. A confrontation that ends up in someone getting shot.
     

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