Does Pittsburgh have enough two way forwards to win the Cup?

DearDiary

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Aug 29, 2010
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I said Kessel was in a bad situation and won't be a problem for the Penguins. My point is, he's not a solution.

The reason he Pens have struggled in the playoffs is because they lack any kind of playmaking from their wingers. It's easy to shut down Crosby/Malkin if they're the only ones who can get the puck up the ice and the only ones who can create scoring chances. Kessel is a gamechanger for their top 6, he can create space for his centers by getting defensemen to back off with his speed. He's also a great playmaker.

The Boston series is a good example. They shut Crosby down because they double teamed him to force an early pass. Then pressured Crosby's wingers to make a play. None of the Pens wingers could do anything other than drive the net or pass off the puck to an open area. Neal became a liability, he had no space because Malkin couldn't create any for him. Neal didn't do anything except give away the puck.

Pens fans here blame Bylsma but there's nothing he could do other than play to the strength of his forwards. That lack of playmaking didn't give Dan much to work with, and Pens fans will be kicking themselves when he wins the Jack Adams again
 

Machinehead

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The reason he Pens have struggled in the playoffs is because they lack any kind of playmaking from their wingers. It's easy to shut down Crosby/Malkin if they're the only ones who can get the puck up the ice and the only ones who can create scoring chances. Kessel is a gamechanger for their top 6, he can create space for his centers by getting defensemen to back off with his speed. He's also a great playmaker.

The Boston series is a good example. They shut Crosby down because they double teamed him to force an early pass. Then pressured Crosby's wingers to make a play. None of the Pens wingers could do anything other than drive the net or pass off the puck to an open area. Neal became a liability, he had no space because Malkin couldn't create any for him. Neal didn't do anything except give away the puck.

Pens fans here blame Bylsma but there's nothing he could do other than play to the strength of his forwards. That lack of playmaking didn't give Dan much to work with, and Pens fans will be kicking themselves when he wins the Jack Adams this upcoming season.

No question Kessel is going to help them produce and that top 6 is going to be scary. Arguably the best in the league.

My point is the Pens already never had any trouble with their top 6 with those two monsters on the ice.

What has been a problem is their bottom six centers and right now it's still Brandon Blackhole Sutter and we don't know.
 

#66

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The defense will have to stay healthy, Fleury if he plays the way he played last year were in good shape. He had a great season and gave the Pens a chance to win against the Rags in the playoffs. By far our best player last season.
Ability wise the defense is ok... not great but ok.

Systems and coaching can really help that out.

Dupuis and maybe Kunitz can really help that bottom six.
 

Ogrezilla

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Jul 5, 2009
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No question Kessel is going to help them produce and that top 6 is going to be scary. Arguably the best in the league.

My point is the Pens already never had any trouble with their top 6 with those two monsters on the ice.

What has been a problem is their bottom six centers and right now it's still Brandon Blackhole Sutter and we don't know.

the last three playoff series we've lost our biggest problem was scoring in the top 6. It has been a huge problem.
 

Koized

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Oct 8, 2005
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Their forwards are a strength. However, If they play a more offensive system then they did last year their defense will be exposed. Additionally, their team is extremely soft and would get physcially abused by quite a few teams in the playoffs.
 

Machinehead

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the last three playoff series we've lost our biggest problem was scoring in the top 6. It has been a huge problem.

Because good teams focus on shutting down the two big centers and there's nothing else. Lots of very good players fail to score in the playoffs, especially when they're huge targets.
 

DearDiary

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Aug 29, 2010
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No question Kessel is going to help them produce and that top 6 is going to be scary. Arguably the best in the league.

My point is the Pens already never had any trouble with their top 6 with those two monsters on the ice.

What has been a problem is their bottom six centers and right now it's still Brandon Blackhole Sutter and we don't know.


Their Top 6 has always been a big problem, I just explained that in the post you quoted.

Sutter isn't even that bad, he's a strong defensive player that likes to play run and gun. Dupuis and Kunitz should help his possession numbers instead of the usual 4th liners on his wing
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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No question Kessel is going to help them produce and that top 6 is going to be scary. Arguably the best in the league.

My point is the Pens already never had any trouble with their top 6 with those two monsters on the ice.

What has been a problem is their bottom six centers and right now it's still Brandon Blackhole Sutter and we don't know.

Perfectly honest question, given your take on Neal and the bolded above I gotta ask... Exactly how much of the Pens have you actually watched?
 

Ogrezilla

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Because good teams focus on shutting down the two big centers and there's nothing else. Lots of very good players fail to score in the playoffs, especially when they're huge targets.

Which is why we need a guy like Kessel who can score if that happens. In the same situation, Neal simply couldn't do it. His offense was completely reliant on his center. Kessel can do it on his own. That is why he's a better player than Neal.
 

Machinehead

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Their Top 6 has always been a big problem, I just explained that in the post you quoted.

Sutter isn't even that bad, he's a strong defensive player that likes to play run and gun. Dupuis and Kunitz should help his possession numbers instead of the usual 4th liners on his wing

Well like I said, when you put all your scoring on two guys and give teams a giant target to hit, it's gonna be a problem in the playoffs.

Kessel helps, but you're still going to be able to shut down Kessel by shutting down Crosby.

Perfectly honest question, given your take on Neal and the bolded above I gotta ask... Exactly how much of the Pens have you actually watched?

Plenty.
 

Perfect_Drug

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Crosby and Malkin are not producing in the playoffs.

Crosby hasn't been a PPG player in the playoffs for 4 seasons now, and was barely a PPG since his cup win.

Malkin was completely shut out last year.

Boston completely shut them out during one of the most dominant sweeps a couple years ago.



Kessel will be instrumental in being able to generate some offense from the wing with SPEED. His acquisition IMHO was a move geared towards sparking their offence in the playoffs.

Anyone that thinks Kessel is comparable to Neal is out to lunch.
Kessel is comparable with Patrick Kane.



And I'm neither a Kessel fan or a Leaf fan.
 

Big McLargehuge

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How do the Pens not have secondary scoring? They have a Crosby whomever line and a Malkin Kessel line (or vice versa).

Why the hell do you think we needed to make a trade for a guy like Kessel. Kessel can create on his own and will demand attention, we haven't had that.

The Pens had basically no production from the bottom six all of last year, which is why basically the entire bottom six was jettisoned, and had only one real quality winger in Hornqvist (Perron can be one, but he was total ass the final ~30 games). The Pens' problems in the playoffs is scoring goals, not keeping them out of our net. Kessel is a huge step towards fixing that. Swapping Geno out for Kopitar (laughable) would only compound our problem.
 

Machinehead

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Kessel has made himself a top goal scorer in the league. He is not a guy who relies on his center to score.

He can score on his own but I don't think he's a guy who's going to dictate play on his own.

Regardless, I see Kessel as a good move for the Pens overall. But they need more. Everyone's talking about this team as a Cup contender and looking at the Metro I don't see a team as deep as Washington or the Islanders here.
 

Ogrezilla

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He can score on his own but I don't think he's a guy who's going to dictate play on his own.

Regardless, I see Kessel as a good move for the Pens overall. But they need more. Everyone's talking about this team as a Cup contender and looking at the Metro I don't see a team as deep as Washington or the Islanders here.

we need kids to step up. We haven't given them a chance to do that for way too long. I certainly wouldn't call us a favorite, but we're in a significantly better spot than we were a month ago. If the young guys step in and do well, we should be a contender. If not, well its not like we've done any better signing vets for those roles.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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And you drew the conclusions that Neal was this puck possession monster and that their top six was never a problem because they had Crosby and Malkin?

That's literally the exact opposite of reality. You will be hard pressed to find many who share your opinion, but to each their own.
 

Machinehead

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we need kids to step up. We haven't given them a chance to do that for way too long. I certainly wouldn't call us a favorite, but we're in a significantly better spot than we were a month ago. If the young guys step in and do well, we should be a contender. If not, well its not like we've done any better signing vets for those roles.

I can agree with this.
 

Nakawick

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Apr 5, 2010
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Not even close.

Goals per game:

Neal - 0.38
Kessel - 0.36

Points per game

Neal - 0.73
Kessel - 0.77

Production is comparable, and Neal is irrefutably a better all-around player aside from scoring.

Also on pace for 28 goals and a 58% possession player. Yeah that guy.

I am going to predict that Perron outscores Neal this season. Take that for what it is.

Neal playing for strong teams with world class centers and/or Dmen versus Kessel playing with not much of anything. James Neal does not average a PPG for three straight seasons playing in place of Kessel on those leaf teams. And his CORSI would be ****.

I am not going to suggest that the Pens are the cup favorites or division favorites or whatever in July, but their forward group has a significantly better top 6 and a significantly better bottom 6 than they have in the past few years and potentially the deepest in the Crosby/Malkin era.
 

gordie

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we need kids to step up. We haven't given them a chance to do that for way too long. I certainly wouldn't call us a favorite, but we're in a significantly better spot than we were a month ago. If the young guys step in and do well, we should be a contender. If not, well its not like we've done any better signing vets for those roles.

What kids??? Bennett, Sundqvist, Dumoulin ? Pretty thin ranks to depend on.
 

sessiroth

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Jan 21, 2010
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Kessel has proven he doesn't need elite linesman to put up numbers.

If bottom 6 depth became a problem, especially in the playoffs, I could see kessel, malkin and crosby on all different lines.

Makes the match ups a living hell for the opposing team.
 

Lebowski

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Dec 5, 2010
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Not even close.

Goals per game:

Neal - 0.38
Kessel - 0.36

Points per game

Neal - 0.73
Kessel - 0.77

Production is comparable, and Neal is irrefutably a better all-around player aside from scoring.

Are you really arguing Neal is comparable, or even better, than Kessel?
 

Machinehead

GoAwayKakko
Jan 21, 2011
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Are you really arguing Neal is comparable, or even better, than Kessel?

I don't know if I'm ready to commit to that because Kessel hasn't gotten a fair shake being on a trash team most of his career, but I don't think it's as far off as people would have you believe. FWIW, the Pens were a scary team most of the years they had James Neal.
 

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