Does Mike Gartner Belong in the HHOF?

[DitchMarner]

Gartner is fine as a member given the standard the HHOF has set. Ideally the standard would be higher, and Gartner would miss out, but that isn't the case. I don't see a big difference between Gartner and Marleau. Gartner has a small offensive edge, Marleau has a small defensive edge.

Would you keep McDonald as a member if the standard was what you think it should be?

He finished in the top for goals four times. He had a better peak than Gartner but didn't have the same level of consistency. His era adjusted stats aren't all that amazing, and even playing in a high-scoring era, he barely made it to 1000 career points.

 

[JackSlater]

Would you keep McDonald as a member if the standard was what you think it should be?

He finished in the top for goals four times. He had a better peak than Gartner but didn't have the same level of consistency. His era adjusted stats aren't all that amazing, and even playing in a high-scoring era, he barely made it to 1000 career points.

Nope. I think that he and Gartner are pretty similar as players. McDonald was an all star type player, but not someone who was one of the best players in the world.

 

[mrhockey193195]

In my ideal world? Gartner wouldn't make it. Neither would the most controversial inductees, like Housley, Andreychuk, Duff, Gillies, Cheevers, etc. But I also wouldn't let in players like Nieuwendyk, Anderson, Mullen, Lanny, etc. either.

The standard for goalies is a bit strict (and way too focused on team success), but it closer to the standard that I would employ for all players.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I don't know what I have said about this the last 10 times it has come up... but this time I'm going to go with yes he belongs in the HHOF.

I know people will say oh he was a compiler but scoring 30+ goals for 15 straight seasons is a crazy accomplishment no matter the era.

He kept right on doing it at an older age even when things had started clamping down. He still popped over 30 goals at the age of 37 in 96-97.

If not for the lockout he may have done it 18 seasons in row. It is insane to play at that level in the best league in the world for that time.

Not only that he is "famous" one of the fastest skaters ever.

 

[Killion]

I don't know what I have said about this the last 10 times it has come up... but this time I'm going to go with yes he belongs in the HHOF.

... its ok to change your mind from time~time, absolutely.... and I agree, Gartner should be in the HHOF. Started his pro-career with Cincinnati of the WHA as an underage Junior & was runner~up to Wayne Gretzky as Rookie of the Year. And while he never never won a Cup, never even played in a Finals (was traded by the NYR's in 94 at the Trade Deadline so like Maxwell Smart, "missed it by that much"), was never voted to an end-season All Star Team, never won any trophies (which I find amusing given how good he was, speaks to "luck of the draw" as to where someone might wind up playing out their career) at all, none, zero.... he was a Great Player, great Character Guy, Clean and as you stated one of the greatest skaters the games ever seen, consistently prolific in putting up the points. Type of player you'd want to honor, who should be held up as an example that even despite having never won anything of significance his play & career, comportment on & off the ice to be admired, honored, emulated.

 

[Dissonance]

I don't know what I have said about this the last 10 times it has come up... but this time I'm going to go with yes he belongs in the HHOF.

I know people will say oh he was a compiler but scoring 30+ goals for 15 straight seasons is a crazy accomplishment no matter the era.

He kept right on doing it at an older age even when things had started clamping down. He still popped over 30 goals at the age of 37 in 96-97.

If not for the lockout he may have done it 18 seasons in row. It is insane to play at that level in the best league in the world for that time.

Not only that he is "famous" one of the fastest skaters ever.

Yeah, agree with this. I get the case against inducting 'compilers,' but if you're going to induct ONE pure compiler (and why not have one?), induct Mike Gartner. What he did with those consecutive 30-goal seasons was nuts, and 700 goals is impressive no matter how long it takes to get there. He's a unique player, the sort of thing the HHOF should feature.

Unfortunately the HOF committee seems to think that Gartner being in means that guys like Ciccarelli and Andreychuk should also get in, when they really shouldn't. Having too many compilers in the Hall waters it down. Just stick with one.

 

[crobro]

700 plus goals gets anyone into the HHOF

 

[MS]

Yeah, agree with this. I get the case against inducting 'compilers,' but if you're going to induct ONE pure compiler (and why not have one?), induct Mike Gartner. What he did with those consecutive 30-goal seasons was nuts, and 700 goals is impressive no matter how long it takes to get there. He's a unique player, the sort of thing the HHOF should feature.

Unfortunately the HOF committee seems to think that Gartner being in means that guys like Ciccarelli and Andreychuk should also get in, when they really shouldn't. Having too many compilers in the Hall waters it down. Just stick with one.

Yeah, Gartner would be in my HHOF, albeit as one of the weakest members. Compiling 700 goals is a hell of a thing, and he was a fine two-way player, selected for Canada in Canada Cups, and as classy as it gets off the ice.

But he should have been the cutoff. Instead it's opened the door for worse compilers who were worse players, left off Canada Cups, and were worse people (at least in Ciccarelli's case) in Ciccarelli/Andreychuk/Housley to get in because compiling 640 goals or whatever doesn't seem that different. All of those selections are awful.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Yeah, Gartner would be in my HHOF, albeit as one of the weakest members. Compiling 700 goals is a hell of a thing, and he was a fine two-way player, selected for Canada in Canada Cups, and as classy as it gets off the ice.

But he should have been the cutoff. Instead it's opened the door for worse compilers who were worse players, left off Canada Cups, and were worse people (at least in Ciccarelli's case) in Ciccarelli/Andreychuk/Housley to get in because compiling 640 goals or whatever doesn't seem that different. All of those selections are awful.

This is almost exactly my thinking, assuming about as many players make the hall as are there now.

Also of note - now that the unusually strong early-sixties birth cohort has finished their careers and pushed him down somewhat, it's easy to forget just how high up Gartner was on the goals leaderboard when he retired. Part of that is somewhat illusory - he (along with Mullen) is the rare late fifties birth that kept scoring into his thirties, giving him a head start on guys like Brett Hull and (later on) Jagr. But he came up 9 goals short of Phil Esposito, and just one more strong season away from Marcel Dionne. That would have put him just behind Gordie Howe for a time. Gordie Howe. To me, that's worth remembering in much the same way that it's worth remembering that Nels Stewart held the goal title before the Rocket - I'd never put Stewart in the same class as a Morenz, or a Conacher, or a Dennenny, but a hockey history buff should know that fact, right?