Does Letang deserve any HoF discussion when his career is over?

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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And just 11 male dmen in that period. Pretty much all of them have at least 1 Norris or Conn Smythe, save for Housley.

So yeah. Norris or Conn Smythe. Although I guess if he's unexpectedly long lived and gets another ring, maybe he sneaks in. Or if he somehow finds his way onto a Canadian gold medal team.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Crosby, Malkin, and Flower all HoF locks. Meanwhile we are talking about Letang even being in the discussion. So this is admitting he was the weakest link of the core and didn't live up to his full potential like the other 3?

Full potential?

He was a third round pick, not a top two pick like the others. Now people are now debating if he can be a HOF.... I’d say he more than lived up to his potential and well exceeded it.
 

bathroomSTAAL

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Mar 15, 2007
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I don't like Fleury much more than most of this thread, but you have to give him credit for the 2017 run too - we don't get past the Caps without him. He even got a shutout in the ECF before Murray took over. So it's like 3.5 Finals and 1.5 Cups as a starter.
 

RSPens

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May 25, 2015
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Fluery = Chris Osgood to me. Good goalie for a long time, has some cups, but isn't a HOFer.

His win totals are inflated by the fact that he played with Sid and Geno on a team that didnt miss the playoffs for over 1o seasons and he plays in the shootout era, meaning no more ties. Take away his shootout wins that would have counted as ties and he doesn't look so hot.

I love the guy and wish him the best, but he needs to win a Cup with Vegas or keep up his level of play into his late 30s to have a chance at the hall.

It's funny that you are comparing Fleury to Osgood. Fleury had some mental issues at times in his career, but he never gets any credit for his play because he had Crosby and Malkin, so he should have lots of wins. The funny thing is Osgood had Lidstrom and as good as Letang is (at times) he is no where near Lidstrom's level. Fleury has never had the quality of defensemen that Roy or Brodeur had. For large chunks of Fleury's career the best defensive defensemen he had were Scuderi, Hal Gill and Ben Lovejoy. I don't care who you are as a goalie, but good luck racking up the wins with those guys as you best defenders. Even going back to Gonchar's playing days, Gonchar was basically a 4th forward on the ice. The Pens used to control the play and Fleury had to be sharp with the few chances the other team had. Also 2009 and 2017 without Fleury there are no Cups.
 

UnrealMachine

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It's funny that you are comparing Fleury to Osgood. Fleury had some mental issues at times in his career, but he never gets any credit for his play because he had Crosby and Malkin, so he should have lots of wins. The funny thing is Osgood had Lidstrom and as good as Letang is (at times) he is no where near Lidstrom's level. Fleury has never had the quality of defensemen that Roy or Brodeur had. For large chunks of Fleury's career the best defensive defensemen he had were Scuderi, Hal Gill and Ben Lovejoy. I don't care who you are as a goalie, but good luck racking up the wins with those guys as you best defenders. Even going back to Gonchar's playing days, Gonchar was basically a 4th forward on the ice. The Pens used to control the play and Fleury had to be sharp with the few chances the other team had. Also 2009 and 2017 without Fleury there are no Cups.

In that case you should compare Fleury's career sv% to those of his teammates over the course of his career? Prepare to be unimpressed, to say the least.
 

AquaticBirdman

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Sep 25, 2007
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The 3 cup wins will definitely help his cause, as will the franchise d-man records. Still, without a Norris win it will be very difficult for him to get any real consideration imo. A lot will also depend on how well he performs in the later years of his career.
 

Pancakes

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I think he should get serious consideration. Three cups, and was dominant in our most recent one. He doesn't have a Smythe or a Norris, which does hurt him.

Two comparable defensemen Rob Blake and Scott Niedermayer both finished with 700+ points and each had a norris with Niedermayer also having a smythe. Assuming Letang can average 50 points a year for 4 more years (why not?) he'd be close to 700 points and that's saying nothing of his age 35+ seasons where he could accumulate some more points.

So the point totals are there and so are the cups. The only thing missing is a norris. If he had that, and manages 700+ points, he's a slam dunk. Without it? I'd say he still should be, but who knows how the voters think.
 

Pancakes

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The counterpoint would be Sergei Zubov is not in the hall of fame and Letang might have similar numbers to him. However, Letang does have the Cups.

I dunno like I said I think he needs a Norris or Smythe to really cement his case. Without those, I still feel like he might be probable, but it's more up in the air.
 

madinsomniac

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Jul 3, 2012
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All hall of fames should have three wings, the hall of fame, the hall of greats, and the hall of shame

The Hof should be just what it is now, the best and most accomplished from every era

The hall of greats should be exceptional HOF individuals that transcended the sport and dominated their eras. This should be resrved for the best of the best and should have a ridiculously stringent voting criteria like 90 or 95% of voters have to agree...

The hall of shame should be for clear hof guys that had personal off the field issues but really do belong in there due to on the field play

Under this Tanger would be a possible hof r but barely
 

SouthGeorge

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May 2, 2018
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Full potential?

He was a third round pick, not a top two pick like the others. Now people are now debating if he can be a HOF.... I’d say he more than lived up to his potential and well exceeded it.

I don't care what pick he was. Yeah, he lived up to that. I'm talking about how he's been treated by the organization. He's been treated like a main piece of the core just like Crosby, Malkin, and Flower(if not for expansion) untradable. So I think it's fair to compare him to them and they are all HoF locks and he isn't. Very telling.
 

gopens66

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May 25, 2006
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The problem with most of the Penguin's franchise stars is that almost all of them have had "something else" in their careers. Jagr is pretty much the only one who had a dominant, healthy, and long career. Sid and Mario are the two with top-5 hockey sense and talent, but have dealt with lots of injuries/sickness during their career/primes. Obviously, none of that will stop them from the HoF. Barrasso should be, but was such an ***hat that apparently no one could stand him. Geno and Letang have both dealt with many games lost to injury and are notorious for being easily egged into losing their minds and taken off their game. Fleury is maybe the weakest minded goalie to even be considered for the HoF. Fifteen years from now, when the Pens bring the old-timers back to recognize cup teams or whatever, I'll be right there chanting "Fleury....Fleury!" with the rest of the yinzers. He's likeable and was an important part of three cups. But, if he had Tommy B's stones, we may have had 5-6. In '08 Game 1 of the finals, when Fleury tripped onto the ice before the game, you knew right then we were gonna lose. Fleury may get in because he's likeable, and voters are human. But, he probably shouldn't. Letang needs something more to get the votes.
 
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Ogrezilla

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I don't care what pick he was. Yeah, he lived up to that. I'm talking about how he's been treated by the organization. He's been treated like a main piece of the core just like Crosby, Malkin, and Flower(if not for expansion) untradable. So I think it's fair to compare him to them and they are all HoF locks and he isn't. Very telling.
The fact that you are lumping Fleury with Sid and Geno really gives away your agenda here.

Fleury likely makes the HoF based on team stats. At no point in his career has he been a top goalie. But he's been a good goalie for a really long time, and he's been on really good teams.
 
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Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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I don't care what pick he was. Yeah, he lived up to that. I'm talking about how he's been treated by the organization. He's been treated like a main piece of the core just like Crosby, Malkin, and Flower(if not for expansion) untradable. So I think it's fair to compare him to them and they are all HoF locks and he isn't. Very telling.

It’s not telling at all. Those three came with great expectations, Letang didn’t. Talking about a third round pick maybe being a HOFer is a massive homerun for both him and the org.

Dude has become their all time best defenseman and one of the best defenseman of his era. Only people with agendas that he’s made to look like fools can’t see that.
 

SouthGeorge

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May 2, 2018
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The fact that you are lumping Fleury with Sid and Geno really gives away your agenda here.

No agenda. It's a fair question. He's apart of the core. Comparing him to his peers. He's been with them the whole time and treated just like them. Supposedly he's a top defensemen every year. Yet, he's the only one out of the 4 that isn't a HoF lock. Why is that?
 

SouthGeorge

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May 2, 2018
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It’s not telling at all. Those three came with great expectations, Letang didn’t. Talking about a third round pick maybe being a HOFer is a massive homerun for both him and the org.

Dude has become their all time best defenseman and one of the best defenseman of his era. Only people with agendas that he’s made to look like fools can’t see that.

St Louis was undrafted. Reechi 4th round. Fedorov 4th round. Rob Blake 4th round. Hasek 10th round. Lidstrom 3rd round. Just to name a few over the years. Where you are drafted and living up to that potential means nothing when talking HoF.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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St Louis was undrafted. Reechi 4th round. Fedorov 4th round. Rob Blake 4th round. Hasek 10th round. Lidstrom 3rd round. Just to name a few over the years. Where you are drafted and living up to that potential means nothing when talking HoF.

You said he’s disappointed and didn’t live up to his potential... if he had HOF potential wouldn’t he have been a top five pick? Or likely higher?

Why yes, he would have. That’s the logic you keep conveniently over looking.

For a third rounder to become a team’s all time best blueliner, win two cups, and be one of the best of his generation, it’s quite obvious he more than surpassed any expectations scouts had of him.

There is literally no way around that reality.
 

Ogrezilla

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Jul 5, 2009
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No agenda. It's a fair question. He's apart of the core. Comparing him to his peers. He's been with them the whole time and treated just like them. Supposedly he's a top defensemen every year. Yet, he's the only one out of the 4 that isn't a HoF lock. Why is that?
because Sid and Geno are generational players, and because Fleury will get in thanks to Wins despite it being a team stat. Letang is better compared to his peers (other top D-men) than Fleury is compared to his. But when you're the starter on a winning team, you get the credit for that regardless of never actually being a top goalie in the league. Fleury is a good goalie. Letang is a better d-man.
 
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madinsomniac

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Jul 3, 2012
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Tanger was a third round pick because idiot GMs didn’t see how the game was about to change... in this day and age Letang would probably have been a first rounder... people didn’t value great skating puck movers enough in the clutch and grab nhl...
 

cheesedanish87

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Jun 27, 2012
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Hes not close to a HOF IMO.

Letang has been so inconsistent during his career.

When hes on hes one of the best def in the league, when hes not on hes been pretty bad.

HOF players are consistently good year after year til they start to get older.
 

Pengwins

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Jun 13, 2017
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he should finish top 3 in the Norris this year. what are the chances he wins Norris, 30%? If he can win a Norris and keep compiling points for several years I say yes to HoF
 

Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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he should finish top 3 in the Norris this year. what are the chances he wins Norris, 30%? If he can win a Norris and keep compiling points for several years I say yes to HoF

I’ll think he’ll just miss a nomination if things stay the same as now...probably be 4th or 5th...I expect Burns, Gio and Reilly to get nominated unless things change
 

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