Does Jimmy retire or go to the minors?

[Red Stanley]

how is Howard "overrated"?

he never got any respect around here even when he was one of the best Goalies in the league,if anything historically he's been incredibly underrated(and is pretty appropriately rated nowadays)

Spot on.

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

Looking at Jimmy’s regular season stats he had one elite season at age 25, 3 good seasons (one where he only played 20 games), and I’ll give him another average season. After that there’s 6 bad seasons which you can chalk up to whatever you want. Jimmy Howard Stats | Hockey-Reference.com Edit: I’ll revise that the lockout season of those good seasons should be added to the great/elite column. He’s got two to three years as a top 5-10 regular season goalie in the league. My issue with Howard is there’s no middle ground. When he’s bad he’s awful and there’s more bad than good.

 

[Red Stanley]

Maybe not here. Go to reddit and criticize him.
Before this year, you'd have been downvoted to hell.
Lots of fans love Jimmy Howard.

God forbid some RW fans would love a life-long Wing who's been nothing but professional his entire career and managed to put together pretty good stats despite playing on a team that has gotten progressively worse.

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

God forbid some RW fans would love a life-long Wing who's been nothing but professional his entire career and managed to put together pretty good stats despite playing on a team that has gotten progressively worse.

He really hasn’t though. His pretty good stats all came with a great defensive team in front of him Datsyuk-Zetterberg Lidstrom-Rafaski-Kronwall (holy moly). While his play never elevated in the playoffs like Osgood did with the same core.

 

[Red Stanley]

He really hasn’t though. His pretty good stats all came with a great defensive team in front of him Datsyuk-Zetterberg Lidstrom-Rafaski-Kronwall (holy moly). While his play never elevated in the playoffs like Osgood did with the same core.

Simply false. His best stats are from '16-'17 and his third best statistical season is after Lids retired. He was also pretty damned good last year, if you watched the games. Howard never played for a team as good as those Osgood played on. That's revisionist history.

 

[MBH]

God forbid some RW fans would love a life-long Wing who's been nothing but professional his entire career and managed to put together pretty good stats despite playing on a team that has gotten progressively worse.

Case in point.

 

[MBH]

Simply false. His best stats are from '16-'17 and his third best statistical season is after Lids retired. He was also pretty damned good last year, if you watched the games. Howard never played for a team as good as those Osgood played on. That's revisionist history.

In 16-17 he started 24 games so he never had the chance for his annual collapse.

 

[ShelbyZ]

how is Howard "overrated"?

he never got any respect around here even when he was one of the best Goalies in the league,if anything historically he's been incredibly underrated(and is pretty appropriately rated nowadays)

Yea, seeing Howard described as "overrated" is absolutely bizarre... I still remember when fans reacted negatively to Holland simply plugging Howard behind Osgood behind he was no longer waiver exempt and the team didn't even have enough cap space to sign a bargain bin UFA goalie, let alone extend Ty Conklin...

Peak Jimmy Howard fandom was when he put his glove in Sidney Crosby's face late in the 09-10 season. Then it dropped and never reached that level ever again since the Wings were eliminated in 2010 playoffs. The photoshopped picture of Howard standing in front of the goal with a beachball in it and nicknames like "Jimmy 5-hole" have been common place on various forms of social media for almost 10 years. Even after he had a career year and solid playoff run behind a top 4 that included studs like Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl, earning him a very market value contract extension, there were a bunch of Red Wings fans ridiculously clamoring for a Gustavsson/Mrazek combo (which would've ended up a Mrazek/McCollum combo LMAO).

I would argue that if it weren't for Howard playing well in his pre-extension years, the team likely would've been less competitive as Holland would've had to dismantle the team even more to bring in a starter via trade or free agency.

If you were to chart Howard's "approval rating" among Red Wings fans, it would probably look something like this:

 

[Red Stanley]

In 16-17 he started 24 games so he never had the chance for his annual collapse.

With a star-studded defense padding his numbers.

 

[Red Stanley]

Yea, seeing Howard described as "overrated" is absolutely bizarre... I still remember when fans reacted negatively to Holland simply plugging Howard behind Osgood behind he was no longer waiver exempt and the team didn't even have enough cap space to sign a bargain bin UFA goalie, let alone extend Ty Conklin...

Peak Jimmy Howard fandom was when he put his glove in Sidney Crosby's face late in the 09-10 season. Then it dropped and never reached that level ever again since the Wings were eliminated in 2010 playoffs. The photoshopped picture of Howard standing in front of the goal with a beachball in it and nicknames like "Jimmy 5-hole" have been common place on various forms of social media for almost 10 years. Even after he had a career year and solid playoff run behind a top 4 that included studs like Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kindl, earning him a very market value contract extension, there were a bunch of Red Wings fans ridiculously clamoring for a Gustavsson/Mrazek combo (which would've ended up a Mrazek/McCollum combo LMAO).

I would argue that if it weren't for Howard playing well in his pre-extension years, the team likely would've been less competitive as Holland would've had to dismantle the team even more to bring in a starter via trade or free agency.

If you were to chart Howard's "approval rating" among Red Wings fans, it would probably look something like this:

View attachment 308147

Looks like I joined too late and missed the average ol' times on the Howard approval curve.

 

[kliq]

Its hard for me to have hatred towards Howard. I remember when many people gave Franzen a similar hard time, however with him it was for being "lazy", and I can remember debating with many posters arguing that Franzen has suffered numerous times from brain trauma, and that most likely that "laziness" has something to do with that. Knowing what we know now, thank god most fans have shut the f*** up about it and understand what he has gone through for 10 years.

Howard doesnt have brain trauma, but like Franzen his career has been derailed but injury. Every year his trajectory is almost always the same. Plays great, gets injured, plays like crap. When a guy is giving it his all, and gets injured in the process, I'm sorry, but I cant be mad him, or name call him like many do. Jimmy is far from perfect, but IMO he has shown that when fully healthy, he is an above average starter. Not anymore, but for the majority of his career when healthy that's what he has been. I'm not going to dismiss a guys talent because of injuries. If Jimmy never suffered an injury in his career, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have been a top 10/15 player year in, year out.

 

[TatarTangle]

Ah, the ol' Jimmy Howard sucks train.

When he was healthy he was a fantastic goalie and a reason why the Red Wings during their obvious decline were somewhat relevant, especially considering his salary fell in the middle of starting goalies. But his problem always has been not staying healthy, and when he came back was never the same.

Overrated? Go play the position. Go play it with the equivalent D league beer leaguers that can only do crossovers one way.

His time has passed and it is time to move on but considering this season is for naught let him have 20-30% of the starts when Bernier comes back and let him ride off into the sunset.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I do agree that it seems Howard is no longer capable of NHL caliber play and needs to go. However, the mantle of most overrated Red Wings goalie of all time is Osgood and there's nobody that will be dethroning him in that regard. Osgood was a very average NHL goalie with some all-time great teams playing in front of him. Take him in his prime and put him in front of this Wings team and he'd look like garbage too.

Yes Osgood was overrated but AT LEAST he won a few cups. I know his teams were stacked but he at least won. Howard has not absolutely nothing in the NHL to be "unmovable" all these years.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Ah, the ol' Jimmy Howard sucks train.

When he was healthy he was a fantastic goalie and a reason why the Red Wings during their obvious decline were somewhat relevant, especially considering his salary fell in the middle of starting goalies. But his problem always has been not staying healthy, and when he came back was never the same.

Overrated? Go play the position. Go play it with the equivalent D league beer leaguers that can only do crossovers one way.

His time has passed and it is time to move on but considering this season is for naught let him have 20-30% of the starts when Bernier comes back and let him ride off into the sunset.

He was a decent goalie in his prime. Nothing more nothing less. He never had the "it" factor and would always fold under pressure.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

In 16-17 he started 24 games so he never had the chance for his annual collapse.

Oh that's fair. He didn't play enough to eventually suck, so even though he played well, we just know that he was going to suck, so basically he sucks.

Yes Osgood was overrated but AT LEAST he won a few cups. I know his teams were stacked but he at least won. Howard has not absolutely nothing in the NHL to be "unmovable" all these years.

He also did nothing that necessitated him being moved. He was perfectly above-average to average on his down years until this year. It wasn't that he was "unmovable", it is that they didn't have a strong argument to force him out either. If you want to go down the path, he probably shouldn't have gotten 6x5.3. Even though he was above average at time of deal and it was an average salary, he wasn't SO good that you needed to have him signed with huge term. I won't fight you on that. Teams don't tend to shuttle off guys who are perfectly capable pieces... especially when there are other parts of the roster that were quickly developing into gaping talent black holes.

He was a decent goalie in his prime. Nothing more nothing less. He never had the "it" factor and would always fold under pressure.

Guys who have this "it" factor you talk about are guys like Carey Price or Henrik Lundqvist who made 50-100% more on their AAV than Howard. And fold under pressure? Name me a goalie who hasn't?

Holtby?
Fleury?
Price?
Lundqvist?
Crawford?
Thomas?
Rask?
Bobrovsky?

ALL goalies fold under pressure. It's why the position has such little value in trades in comparison to its importance. Goalies are mercurial beasts. Did you see Jordan Binnington coming in and backstopping a team to a title? Neither did I. Curtis Joseph is among the best goalies to ever wear the Winged Wheel, and he was blamed for Detroit losing a sweep in which they scored 6 goals. And then again in 03-04 when he had a .939 sv% and 1.39 GAA.

This just tells me that average fan will default to blame the goalie and rake him over the coals no matter what.

Now, this year? Howard is ass. He's not making saves he should be making. Bernier is playing well but his bad games are where his defense lets him down like crazy. Howard? It's mostly him this year, even though the defense is bad.

 

[Red Stanley]

Its hard for me to have hatred towards Howard. I remember when many people gave Franzen a similar hard time, however with him it was for being "lazy", and I can remember debating with many posters arguing that Franzen has suffered numerous times from brain trauma, and that most likely that "laziness" has something to do with that. Knowing what we know now, thank god most fans have shut the **** up about it and understand what he has gone through for 10 years.

Howard doesnt have brain trauma, but like Franzen his career has been derailed but injury. Every year his trajectory is almost always the same. Plays great, gets injured, plays like crap. When a guy is giving it his all, and gets injured in the process, I'm sorry, but I cant be mad him, or name call him like many do. Jimmy is far from perfect, but IMO he has shown that when fully healthy, he is an above average starter. Not anymore, but for the majority of his career when healthy that's what he has been. I'm not going to dismiss a guys talent because of injuries. If Jimmy never suffered an injury in his career, there is no doubt in my mind that he would have been a top 10/15 player year in, year out.

Franzen used to make me so mad with his seeming lack of effort before I learned about the extent of his head injuries. Now I'm surprised he did as well and played for as long as he did despite the concussions.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

I don't see a way back for Jimmy this time. I would suggest they put him on waivers and send him t0 GR, in one last bid to see if he can get it together (similar to what they did with Erickson earlier) after Bernier is back... and after we acquire Georgiev

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I don't see a way back for Jimmy this time. I would suggest they put him on waivers and send him t0 GR, in one last bid to see if he can get it together (similar to what they did with Erickson earlier) after Bernier is back... and after we acquire Georgiev

Hopefully Edmonton claims him.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Hopefully Edmonton claims him.

Edmonton isn't going to claim him. You can't deride a guy as being five tons of crap and then hope another team wants him. Howard in 2019-2020 is bad. Nobody is taking him. That does not mean he was bad or a waste in the prior years. This year, he sucks, and should probably be on the route to retirement after this contract. Prior years, he was a perfectly above average goalie who didn't deal with injuries super well.

 

[MBH]

Oh that's fair. He didn't play enough to eventually suck, so even though he played well, we just know that he was going to suck, so basically he sucks.

Well..
Since 13-14, every single season until this year, he had a worse GAA and SV pct after Dec. 1 than before Dec. 1.
And since 13-14, that season was a major statistical outlier. He always was between .906 and .910 - expect that year he played only 26 games.

So it's completely fair.

 

[14ari13]

Then what the hell are we even talking about? I'm not campaigning Howard as the greatest of great goalies who never did anything wrong and never had a bad game in that series.

Here is the problem.
Greatest? Great?
Howard is not a very good or a good goalie
When all is said and done I do not think he can be described as a good one.

Howard is extremely overrated. Howard is probably liked by 90% of the posters on this board. It is max 5% of the posters who criticise him.
I am probably the lone poster who have criticised and bashed Howard the last 3-5 years.

I apologise to all the posters, it seems like 90% of the board love the guy. I am not a d,,head. But there is no way around it. He is the worst starter in the league

Maybe I should just let it go.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Here is the problem.
Greatest? Great?
Howard is not a very good or a good goalie
When all is said and done I do not think he can be described as a good one.

Howard is extremely overrated. Howard is probably liked by 90% of the posters on this board. It is max 5% of the posters who criticise him.
I am probably the lone poster who have criticised and bashed Howard the last 3-5 years.

I apologise to all the posters, it seems like 90% of the board love the guy. I am not a d,,head. But there is no way around it. He is the worst starter in the league

Maybe I should just let it go.

Being liked isn't being rated in any way shape or form.

You can like a player/goalie who isn't great at anything. You can like them for a variety of reasons. I don't know of many Detroit fans who called Howard a HoFer or the best of the best, or even a top-5 starter most seasons. More people criticized him than praised him.

 

[14ari13]

Being liked isn't being rated in any way shape or form.

You can like a player/goalie who isn't great at anything. You can like them for a variety of reasons. I don't know of many Detroit fans who called Howard a HoFer or the best of the best, or even a top-5 starter most seasons. More people criticized him than praised him.

Come on. I am the only poster who have criticised him. I do not remember one poster who have criticised him.

Howard was developing and progressing till the sharks series. After that series he stagnated and started declining.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Come on. I am the only poster who have criticised him. I do not remember one poster who have criticised him.

Howard was developing and progressing till the sharks series. After that series he stagnated and started declining.

Wait, what? Are you sure that you are able to read, ari? Look at 95% of the posts in this topic. They are criticizing the HELL out of Howard for a series in which he gave up 15 goals in 7 games against the eventual Stanley Cup champs with a loaded roster. People criticized him all the time. Bitching about his "untradeable/unmovable" contract and saying that we should sign Mrazek forever and jettison Howard into the sun. Howard was an above average starter with an average starter's salary. Then, he turned into an average starter once he started dealing with injuries every season and trying to fight off Mrazek for the role. Now, he sucks. Through all of this, Howard has fallen "victim" to the same goalie angst Detroit has had forever. How many times were Vernon and Ozzy and Hasek and CuJo and Legace and Conklin and Monster derided for sucking? No Detroit goalie is or has ever been a good player until they're so long gone it doesn't matter anymore.

Howard was treated as a worthless piece of garbage almost as soon as the ink dried on his 6 year contract because Petr Mrazek had been drafted and had a dynamite WJC.

 

[ricky0034]

Come on. I am the only poster who have criticised him. I do not remember one poster who have criticised him.

Howard was developing and progressing till the sharks series. After that series he stagnated and started declining.

yeah nothing but stagnation and decline

not like he lead the entire league in even strength save percentage over the two seasons after that or anything

Howard was a very good Goalie at one point and it's honestly a little sad just how dedicated some people are to pretending he wasn't