Speculation: Does Green last the season?

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Bad Goalie, Jan 8, 2021.

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  1. Izzy Goodenough Registered User

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    But it is apparently part of the GM's and Owner's grand plan: so stealthy and under the radar, it is inscrutable to even the most discerning observers.
     
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  2. NoRaise4Brackett But Brackett!!!

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    What impact should any of this really have on guys not scoring, though? Gaudette, Virtanen, MacEwen, Sutter, Roussel -basically our whole bottom six has dried up almost completely (aside from Sutter's hat-trick game), and those players that were let go, really weren't guys that helped any of them score last year. Pettersson didn't need Toffoli to put up points either, as Toffoli essentially only replaced injured Boeser for a bit. Any Offense from Stecher and Tanev are being replaced by Myers' 10 points in 21 games so far. Schmidt moves the puck well and should have more points. I haven't really cared for Horvat's or Pettersson's play this year, Miller too.

    If we were going to regress due to the players we lost, it really should only have been on the defensive side of things. Now I understand it can be harder to score when trailing, but there are just too many guys on extended cold streaks for me to believe that Green is getting the most out of what he has to work with. FWIW, the Flames are actually worse now that they have Tanev and Markstrom.
     
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  3. 50 Sheas of Grey Pettersson for Selke

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    That @GetFocht guy was claiming this team was better than last season even before Hoglander made the team.
     
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  4. Luckylarry Registered User

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    We have given up a lot of goals. Plus, offence comes often in transition from defensive play or a great save.
    No, Benning/Brod screwed over the core by allowing three extremely important players to just leave, with (it seems) little to no effort to keep them.
    This is perhaps the worst off season ever for us. I can’t remember ever losing our MVP Vesina level goalie, top line RW, Top pair RSD, and very good #5 D like that - all at once.
     
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  5. VanJack Registered User

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    When you completely mismanage the salary cap like the Canucks have done, an off-season like last year is the price you have to pay.

    Would the Canucks have preferred to allocate Eriksson's money ($6m) and Baertschi ($3.2m) to bring back Tanev, Markstrom and Tofoli? Ya think? But with some of the worst contracts on the books for bottom-six forwards in the entire league, incompetence comes with a heavy price.
     
  6. hoglanderisbeast Registered User

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    maybe we would be closer to an 8th seed playoff team that gets knocked out in the 1st round or makes a lucky run like last year (remember golden knights and us never leaving our own zone) yea i dont want more of that im glad we made changes. we have more cap space when holtby contract runs out (its only 2 years instead of 6) we even have the option to trade schmidt even though hes been good. markstrom is nmc cant trade that. ok we can play games and say well what if we traded markstrom before letting him go well thats what if it never happened. its not about defending benning its about this is better then having markstrom and tanev signed. we would just be bubble crap and no better off for our future.
     
  7. Luckylarry Registered User

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    And yet our owner comes out publicly with the stamp of approval. Does he not understand the team’s fans are leaving, and not soon coming back? There will be a huge group of young fans that he loses over these seven years, and counting. These younger fans are making attachments to other cities’ teams.
     
  8. StreetHawk Registered User

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    Do fans expect to see an outsider come in to take over for Green? Don't see that happening if they let Green go. You think either Gaumgartner or Brown does any better?
     
  9. Luckylarry Registered User

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    I think you’re likely correct. Benning/Brod (Jethro/Jthrine) will be gone, and their replacemts will decide the fate of ?Green. Green is here until the next ?GM decides his coaching staff.
     
  10. StreetHawk Registered User

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    Right, so if they miss, then I fully expect Benning and co. to be let go, along with Green and his staff.

    Pitt needed to maximize the remaining years that Crosby and Malkin have together, which is until 2022 when Malkin's contract expires at age 36. So, they had to bring in someone when Rutherford stepped down (does that mean he doesn't get paid out the balance of his contract?).

    Plus, more potential GMs are living in the US than in Canada, so much larger pool to draw from mid season.

    Might as well do the reset in the off-season when the pool of candidates opens up. Once the regular season is over, then teams that make the playoffs will be able to allow their executives the opportunity to interview for a higher role.
     
  11. canuckking1 Registered User

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    Fully except Green to get replaced by another rookie coach because FA is cheap. Ever since Torts Canucks have cheated out on coaches.
     
  12. NoRaise4Brackett But Brackett!!!

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    I respect your opinion, but even though Calgary acquired a Vezina-level goalie and top pairing D, they aren't moving the needle for them. I'm not disagreeing that with better defensive play and great saves, it leads to more offense in transition, but then why is someone like Tkachuk sucking? By your (fair) reasoning, the Flames should be better than last year - but they aren't, they are worse. They have pretty much played just as ugly as we have.

    To me, it's the coach's job to get as much as he can out of what he has. I don't think Green has done an adequate job of that this season. Forget about wins and losses for a minute, are you satisfied with the way the players are performing on an individual basis? Like why is Jake so uninspired? Why can't Gaudette hit the side of a barn this year? How come Pettersson forgot how to shoot? Why is our captain nearly invisible aside from that bumper shot on the PP? Eriksson does zilch offensively and gets scored on because he can't backcheck anymore, so why keep giving him icetime over MacEwen?

    Fire Benning out of a canon for all I care, but I think Green is simply not getting enough out of the players he has.
     
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  13. RobertKron Registered User

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    Huh? They allowed more shots against per game last season than they have so far. The team D was horrible last season.
     
  14. Hit the post I have your gold medal Zippy!

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    Not to say goaltending has been a problem this season (it hasn't by & large) but we had Vezina like goaltending last season. Makes all the difference in the world. That and a healthy Tanev.
     
  15. VanJack Registered User

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    Even the staunches defender's of Green would have to concede that defensively at least, this team hasn't really improved one iota in three years.

    Youngsters like Pettersson, Hughes and Boeser have added to their games individually.....but team defense remains a huge problem going forward.

    I have no idea if a new voice behind the bench will make any difference in this team's defensive woes, but at this point it can't hurt.
     
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  16. Luckylarry Registered User

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    Our three men deep forecheck is junior hockey. NHL players, with head up puck on stick too often make good plays, and trap our three forwards behind the puck. Teams with speed and skill up front attack us with speed through the neutral zone and we have no back pressure, because our forwards are trapped behind the play. Our D back up, because the have to, or they get beat wide. It’s a friggin’ stupid forecheck system at this level.
     
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  17. Orca Smash Registered User

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    I think the only thing i agree on is his forecheck system is stupid, but typically we send in one forechecker under green and we are outnumbered with very little sustained offensive zone pressure.

    I wish we played 2-3 forecheckers, maybe you watched a bit against the jets and seen that because they were desperate for a goal, but its not the norm and we typically have trouble sustaining any lengthy offensive zone time due to our lack of forwards pressuring.

    Most good teams send in 2 or 3 forecheckers aggressively to win the puck or they are outnumbered against the other team's d and forwards and the play is going back the other way. The key is the forwards need to skate hard back as well. Which you see on teams like vegas and the avs, with green I often see one forward go in outnumbered with the other two forwards floating behind, and if they do turn the puck over, they dont often skate back hard as a unit on the backcheck. My entire issue with green's system is everything seem's passive, waiting for the game to come to them instead of making an impact on the game, the forecheck, the back check, ect... and against aggressive defensive or offensive team's, you often see us struggle.
     
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  18. Orr4Norris Registered User

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    My biggest concern is other than Motte I honestly cannot think of a young player that has progressed. And whatever gains JV made seem to have been lost this season. On D none of the young guys really progressed. Hutton, Stecher both stagnated and were let go. It’s early with Hughes but he is playing worse than last season. You could probably explain that away as it being a sophomore slump for Hughes and Hutton and Stecher just weren’t good enough. And I’d buy that but it’s the same story up front.

    Has Gaudette gotten any better since he joined the team? No. Big Mac? No. JV? Not really. Brock? We seem super excited he looks as good as he did as a rookie. Petey? Kinda looks the same as his rookie year. Horvat? Has gotten bit better offensively but worse defensively.

    Ultimately the top guys will be fine. But I think Greens inability to find roles for the younger guys is alarming. And the fact none of them seem to be progressing is cause for concern. Especially as the vets’ contracts run out.
     
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  19. Luckylarry Registered User

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    NHL teams do not forecheck at all if the opponent has puck on stick and head up control. Every team, except us, fall back to a neutral zone trap of some kind. It’s suicide to forecheck aggressively against puck on stick head up control. Green’s forecheck is junior hockey.
     
  20. RobertKron Registered User

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    Well, yes. But OP said claimed that the D was adequate in the Pacific, but it's being exposed now in the North, which is insane because the D was so obviously not adequate.
     
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  21. Hit the post I have your gold medal Zippy!

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    The thing is, the place for proper development is in the AHL (at least for these guys that require alot more polishing). They're put in this position because the Canucks have nobody better (and need guys on cheap contract to fill out the roster). I don't blame Green for protecting his own skin and playing the vets vs taking lumps (and even more losses) by playing prospects.
     
  22. Pastor Of Muppetz Registered User

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    I never read his comment, but that would be a bit of a hot take. The initial poster making the claim, said there was a contingent of Canuck fans who said the team was 'better off without Markstrom, Toffoli,and Tanev..?..There was no debate ( in the media or anywhere) that the team didnt take a hit (especially with Markstrom).
     
  23. Canuck86 Registered User

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    My under the radar Head Coach replacement is: Martin Gelinas

    Gelinas has been an assistant coach of the Lames for 8 years now, a former long time NHLer including the Canucks.

    It is yet another rookie HC hire, but he does have 8 years coaching in the league. I would bring in an experienced pair of assistant and can our current duo.
     
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  24. Orca Smash Registered User

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    Again i agree on the last sentence, but I am not speaking about when the opposing player has the puck. If you consider green's forecheck to aggressive in general, then i dont think we are watching the same team.
     
  25. Luckylarry Registered User

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    All teams forecheck hard on free pucks. Watch us. We have two guys (sometimes three) deep when the opponent D has puck on stick, and head up control. It’s a juvenile approach. Yes there will be the odd turnover (there are D like Gudbranson in the league) but in most cases we get trapped, and it causes a cascading series of events that lead to high quality scoring chances (against) off the rush. No NHL teams forecheck like us. And they don’t, because it’s a certain recipe for failure. They trap, because the 1-2-2 has worked in hockey since we went to 5 skaters from 6.
     

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