Does Canada still have the best Defence?

[monster_bertuzzi]

Its a good thing Pavel didnt score too many goals on that GOOD Canucks team in 93.

60 goals from Bure that year isnt enough for you?

 

[someguy44]

Foppa is clearly the much better offensive player. Iginla can't compare. When healthy (comma - bad keyboard) I can only see Mario being better.

60 goals from Bure that year isnt enough for you?

Nope. 60 more the year after plus a 16 goal playoff performance is. Wait... That should be 18 goals and not 16. He should've scored at least 2 more goals for us in that last playoff game!

Iggy has done it at every level ..Memorial cup in Kamloops ,World Junior Gold for Canada ,Olympic Gold for Canada and took a much weaker team than the the Avalanche to within one game of a Stanley Cup .Iggy on all those championships wasnt a bystander either .
I can only imagine what Iggy would do with the likes of Sakic ,tanguay,and hejuk as teammates , there wouldnt be no 3 way tie for the Rocket Richard trophy thats for sure

41 goals to get the Richard is pretty weak. That's the lowest total I can remember in recent history (not counting the lockout year) and with a 82 game schedule(comma) that is pretty weak. Have you ever thought that the reason why those 3 were able to tie for the Richard was because certain other players had off years (Naslund and Hejduk for eg).

 

[arrbez]

41 goals to get the Richard is pretty weak. That's the lowest total I can remember in recent history (not counting the lockout year) and with a 82 game schedule(comma) that is pretty weak. Have you ever thought that the reason why those 3 were able to tie for the Richard was because certain other players had off years (Naslund and Hejduk for eg).

well, i would attribute that more to stifling defense around the league. iginla has scored more goals (52) in one season than either hejduk (50) or naslund (48) did in their best years...and every year he does it without nearly the supporting cast of those two

 

[someguy44]

well, i would attribute that more to stifling defense around the league. iginla has scored more goals (52) in one season than either hejduk (50) or naslund (48) did in their best years...and every year he does it without nearly the supporting cast of those two

That's bs. Stifling defense is one thing, but when was the last time you saw a guy win the goal scoring title with just 41 goals? We're not talking about the 50's or 60's here. Of course, I know Iginla is capable of scoring 50+. His 41 goals the past season could be consider an off year, but then again, he didn't even get 40 the year before. I just think that many of the quality snipers had off years (including Iginla cause the Flames weren't a bad team the past season).

 

[Lionel Hutz]

That's bs. Stifling defense is one thing, but when was the last time you saw a guy win the goal scoring title with just 41 goals? We're not talking about the 50's or 60's here. Of course, I know Iginla is capable of scoring 50+. His 41 goals the past season could be consider an off year, but then again, he didn't even get 40 the year before. I just think that many of the quality snipers had off years (including Iginla cause the Flames weren't a bad team the past season).

I just don't agree with that. goal scoring was down significanltly across the league this year, it was not b/c the "quality snipers" had off years.

Iginla is one of the top snipers in the league if anyone is, and Nash is getting there, or may be there already. Had the "quality snipers" you refer to not had off years, their scoring would likely have been similar.

There have been 2 50 goal scorers in the past 3 years, Iginla is one of them. How can you say it was low b/c he was the dude?

Jeez, I hope scoring gets better.

 

[someguy44]

I just don't agree with that. goal scoring was down significanltly across the league this year, it was not b/c the "quality snipers" had off years.

Iginla is one of the top snipers in the league if anyone is, and Nash is getting there, or may be there already. Had the "quality snipers" you refer to not had off years, their scoring would likely have been similar.

There have been 2 50 goal scorers in the past 3 years, Iginla is one of them. How can you say it was low b/c he was the dude?

Jeez, I hope scoring gets better.

Ah... no, it wasn't. Goal scoring was down from the previous two years, but it wasn't significantly down. It's been at this rate for the last several years. That 41 goal total to win the goal scoring title is the worst ever since 1963! That's the worst total in 4 decades!

There might have been only two 50 goal scorers in the past three years, but as least there were two. But that's not my point. There has always been someone in the modern NHL era to score around at least close to 50, if not more.

I only used Naslund and Hejduk as examples for having off years cause those popped into my head first... There are others. Bertuzzi is one (even if the incident didn't happen, it's questionable whether or not he could score 20). Bure (too injury proned and will never be back in form) is another. You can even make a claim for Iginla. If he was in his 2nd half season's form, he would've gotten 50 easy.

41 goals just doesn't seem right to win the Richard. I seriously doubt that Naslund wouldn't get more than 40 if he didn't have an off year (by his standards). He's scored over 40+ goals for the last 3 or 4 seasons (not including this one cause injuries and the incident got in the way). Hejduk would probably score more than 41 if Foppa wasn't injured so much.

Year-by-Year Goal Scoring Leaders SEASON PLAYER TEAM GP GOALS

2003-2004 Jarome Iginla Calgary Flames 41
TIE Ilya Kovalchuk Atlanta Thrashers 41
TIE Rick Nash Columbus Bluejackets 41
2002-2003 Milan Hejduk Colorado Avalanche 50
2001-2002 Jarome Iginla Calgary Flames 52

This list includes games played stat.
2000-2001 Pavel Bure Florida Panthers 82 59
1999-2000 Pavel Bure Florida Panthers 74 58
1998-1999 Teemu Selanne Mighty Ducks 75 47
1997-1998 (T) Teemu Selanne Mighty Ducks 73 52
1997-1998 (T) Peter Bondra Capitals 76 52
1996-1997 Keith Tkachuk Phoenix 81 52
1995-1996 Mario Lemieux Pittsburgh 70 69
1994-1995 Peter Bondra Washington 47 34
1993-1994 Pavel Bure Vancouver 76 60
1992-1993 (T) Alexander Mogiliny Buffalo 77 76
1992-1993 (T) Teemu Selanne Winnipeg 84 76
1991-1992 Brett Hull St. Louis 73 70
1990-1991 Brett Hull St. Louis 78 86
1989-1990 Brett Hull St. Louis 80 72
1988-1989 Mario Lemieux Pittsburgh 76 85
1987-1988 Mario Lemieux Pittsburgh 77 70
1986-1987 Wayne Gretzky Edmonton 79 62
1985-1986 Jari Kurri Edmonton 78 68
1984-1985 Wayne Gretzky Edmonton 80 73
1983-1984 Wayne Gretzky Edmonton 74 87
1982-1983 Wayne Gretzky Edmonton 80 71
1981-1982 Wayne Gretzky Edmonton 80 92
1980-1981 Mike Bossy Islanders 79 68
1979-1980 (T) Charlie Simmer Los Angeles 64 56
1979-1980 (T) Danny Gare Buffalo 76 56
1979-1980 (T) Blaine Stoughton Hartford 80 56
1978-1979 Mike Bossy Islanders 80 69
1977-1978 Guy Lafleur Canadiens 78 60
1976-1977 Steve Shutt Canadiens 80 60
1975-1976 Reggie Leach Philadelphia 80 61
1974-1975 Phil Esposito Boston 79 61
1973-1974 Phil Esposito Boston 78 68
1972-1973 Phil Esposito Boston 78 55
1971-1972 Phil Esposito Boston 76 66
1970-1971 Phil Esposito Boston 78 76
1969-1970 Phil Esposito Boston 76 43
1968-1969 Bobby Hull Chicago 74 58
1967-1968 Bobby Hull Chicago 71 44
1966-1967 Bobby Hull Chicago 66 52
1965-1966 Bobby Hull Chicago 65 54
1964-1965 Norm Ullman Detroit 70 42
1963-1964 Bobby Hull Chicago 70 43
1962-1963 Gordie Howe Detroit 70 38

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Ah... no, it wasn't. Goal scoring was down from the previous two years, but it wasn't significantly down. It's been at this rate for the last several years. That 41 goal total to win the goal scoring title is the worst ever since 1963! That's the worst total in 4 decades!

Those my friend, are semantics. Goal scoring is down, significantly, period. If I gave you the impression I meant a one-year drop, I apologize. Every year, goal scoring has been decreasing, to the point that it is significantly down now. That is a truth only Gary Bettman could try to dispute.

I'd like to see guys racking up the points as much as the next guy, but don't blame them if they can't. Its the defensive game. The fact that there was no 50 goal scorer is b/c of the way the game is being played.

 

[someguy44]

Those my friend, are semantics. Goal scoring is down, significantly, period. If I gave you the impression I meant a one-year drop, I apologize. Every year, goal scoring has been decreasing, to the point that it is significantly down now. That is a truth only Gary Bettman could try to dispute.

I'd like to see guys racking up the points as much as the next guy, but don't blame them if they can't. Its the defensive game. The fact that there was no 50 goal scorer is b/c of the way the game is being played.

What semantics? What are you talking about? Do you even know what you're talking about? Actually, do you even know what I'm talking about? Goal scoring hasn't been so bad that we're back to the 40's and 50's.

I don't care if we didn't have a 50 goal scorer this past season. Selanne didn't have one when he won it in 99 and I don't ***** about that. However, I am *****ing about the weak Richard trophy winners this past season (I'm calling the goal totals weak and not the players) cause none of them had more than 41 goals.

Selanne's 47 goals is much higher than the 3's 41 goals. That 6 goal difference is a lot you know? I just wanted someone to have at least 45 goals to make the Richard trophy more respectable.

Who said anything about a one-year drop? You didn't give me that impression and I thought I clearly stated that in my previous posts by saying that goal scoring has been at last season's rate for the last several years. It hasn't decreased to the point there it's impossible for no 50 goal scorer or someone around that mark. In fact, if Iggy played the 1st half the same way he played in the 2nd half of the season, he would be a 50 goal and the Richard trophy winner(s) wouldn't look as bad!

 

[SChan*]

Can we please get back on topic? This is NOT a Iginla vs Forsberg thread. Let's just say that Forsberg has been more consistant than Iginla over the years. Because it's true.

Back on topic. Canada still has the best D this world Cup. Sweden is 2nd.


Canada will win. They always perform great under pressure.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

What semantics? What are you talking about? Do you even know what you're talking about? Actually, do you even know what I'm talking about? Goal scoring hasn't been so bad that we're back to the 40's and 50's.

First off, remove the chip from your shoulder. If you can't debate with someone without shooting off like that, then just don't bother. And for the record, I know what I'm talking about, but your inconsistency leaves me curious as to what you are talking about.

Secondly, this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1730545&type=story

Says the goals per game in the NHL is down to 5. Thats .27 gpg less than when Salami scored 47, and its down considerably over the past several years. Thats why there is nobody scoring your threshold of 45 goals. If you do a quick google search, you'll find a dozen corrobaorating sources.

 

[someguy44]

First off, remove the chip from your shoulder. If you can't debate with someone without shooting off like that, then just don't bother. And for the record, I know what I'm talking about, but your inconsistency leaves me curious as to what you are talking about.

I would, but since I'm talking apples and you're talking oranges, it's kind of hard to do so. What inconsistency? It's clear that you're trying to reason that 41 goals scored is reflective of the drastic drop in league scoring, which isn't true.

I've been trying to tell you that it's been at the same rate and that Iginla is the perfect example of why there should've been a 50 goal scorer the past season (had he not struggle in the 1st half). Kovalchuk is another great example. He was going at a rate of scoring 60 goals in the 1st half before he totally fell off in the 2nd. Is this indicative of your self proclaimed "not possible for a 50 goal scorer the past season cause of the defensive mind trap?" If Kovalchuk was so great in the 1st half and Iginla was so good in the 2nd, does it not make you think that certain snipers struggled at some point during the season?

If anyone's inconsistent, it's you. You keep going around in circles trying to convince me that the low scoring Richard winners are due to a fact of the defensive play (which in a part is true), but it still doesn't hold water cause it's been at the same scoring rate for several years now.

Secondly, this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1730545&type=story

Says the goals per game in the NHL is down to 5. Thats .27 gpg less than when Salami scored 47, and its down considerably over the past several years. Thats why there is nobody scoring your threshold of 45 goals. If you do a quick google search, you'll find a dozen corrobaorating sources.

Ok, I don't have time for this anymore and Section X is right. We shouldn't hijack this thread so this will be my last response to you no matter what you say. Yes, it's true that they're are less and less 50 goal scorers, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Even in today's defensive minded game, there are still great players out there capable of reaching 50, if not close to it.

As for that .27 goals, it's a matter of opinion to be honest. To you it's not a lot, but to me, it is. A 41 goal scorer is only a 40 goal sniper and would be pay by that certain amount of goals while a 47 goal scorer would be paid around the 50 goal mark. At least, that's how I feel.

And if anyone should do a google search, it's you. At least I've done my research and posted up all those goal scorers to prove my point, but you just boast about it or make self proclaimtions without backing it up. That article about goal scoring being down is not one I count cause everyone knows goal scoring is down ( but around the same rate for the last several years as I stated before). And that article just proves there are less and less 50 goal scorers, but not none. That's all and I won't reply anymore cause I don't think you understand where I'm getting at.

Section X - What Iginla vs Forsberg??? I can care less about either of them, though I admire Iginla a bit more cause he doesn't dive. We were never debating about Iginla vs Forsberg and even the quacky lawyer would know about that.

Anyway, I won't hijack this forum anymore. Bye all.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

.... and even the quacky lawyer would know about that.

Grow up.

 

[Sotnos]

Enough

You both need to make an effort to keep things on topic in the future.