Does Canada have their best group of forwards ever?

[Seanaconda]

hull and Lafontaine are americans

Hull is both. I guess for hockey he is American but he could have played for either. Just Google him it shows up as canadian -american ice hockey player.

 

[tony d]

We have an amazing group of players right now for sure, but those 80's Team Canada lineups were better IMO.

 

[86Habs]

I've always thought that if we could have sent NHL players to any previous Olympics, our best team would have been either 1988 or 1992. Gretzky, Lemieux and Messier would be your 1-2-3 centers for either team, all at or near their peak (its noteworthy that we wouldn't have gotten Lemieux in 1994 due to injury). Assuming this team is NOT coached by Mike Keenan, peak Yzerman also gets moved over to the wing or slotted in at 4C for either team. Those are four of your top ~15 centers of all time. Then, you have:
- Savard, Hawerchuk, Francis, Smith and Gilmour as options at center in 1988,
- Lindros, Hawerchuk, Francis, Gilmour, Nieuwendyk Oates, and Sakic as options in 1992.

With Messier on the team you wouldn't need a checking line center, but if you wanted to go down that route guys like Guy Carbonneau, Brent Sutter or Dave Poulin would be options (or the aforementioned Gilmour).

The wingers certainly aren't quite as good as the centers obviously, but you would still have options like (not exhaustive, and in no particular order):

- Muller, Dineen, Goulet, Gartner, Neely, Verbeek, Propp, C Lemieux, Larmer, and Anderson in 1988

- Shanahan, Recchi, Damphousse, Linden, Larmer, Robitaille, Fleury, Roberts, Gartner, Nolan, and Andreychuk in 1992

...in addition to any centers the coaching staff felt they could move over to the wing.

I think either of those forward groups are substantially stronger than Canada's current forward group.

 

[jj cale]

it's subjective as to whether or not Barzal is in that group of top 12 forwards. He's played like it, but 0.002% chance he would get selected for a Team Canada A-Team edition. 0% chance if Babcock is the coach.

In my rankings of Team Canadas 1 through 5. Barzal is 3rd line center on the B-team. Point LW Eberle RW. If Barzal is able to carry over this level of play into next year, then he gets some consideration.

Sure, he would never get picked for Team Canada right now no matter who was coaching.I just wonder if he is not already a top twelve or so forward already, the guy is fantastic.

3rd line centre on Canadas B team?........hmmm.

Would you have the time to post this B team?

 

[1Gold Standard]

Sure, he would never get picked for Team Canada right now no matter who was coaching.I just wonder if he is not already a top twelve or so forward already, the guy is fantastic.

3rd line centre on Canadas B team?........hmmm.

Would you have the time to post this B team?

I will. don't have access to it at the moment. check tomorrow.

you seem surprised? ranked too high or two low?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Benn - McDavid - Seguin
Stamkos - Tavares - Giroux
Hall - Toews - Mackinnon

Insane.

 

[jj cale]

I will. don't have access to it at the moment. check tomorrow.

you seem surprised? ranked too high or two low?

I would have to look at all the players available to us to make a decision on that but my initial feeling watching barzal play many times this year is too low.

 

[Freudian]

91/92

Gretzky
Lemieux
Messier
Yzerman
Sakic
Robitaille
Gilmour
Hawerchuk
Andreychuk
Oates
Roberts
Recchi
Tocchet
Nolan
Brind'Amour

 

[Staniowski]

I would have to look at all the players available to us to make a decision on that but my initial feeling watching barzal play many times this year is too low.

I agree. Great skater. The thing is, too, he's not a young rookie, played 4 years in the WHL, 20 years old as a rookie in the NHL, and he'll be 21 this year. Looks good every time I see him.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Sure, he would never get picked for Team Canada right now no matter who was coaching.I just wonder if he is not already a top twelve or so forward already, the guy is fantastic.

3rd line centre on Canadas B team?........hmmm.

Would you have the time to post this B team?

I would say that I rate players 80% on performance and 20% just my subjective opinion. do I like the player or not.

A TEAM (includes players currently on IR) Bergeron is out - Mackinnon takes his spot.

Price gets the benefit of the doubt for now. If we were to play a tournament starting today, our goaltending would be iffy going in.

B MARCHAND	S CROSBY	N MACKINNON
J BENN	C MCDAVID	T SEGUIN
T HALL	S STAMKOS	M SCHEIFELE
J SCHWARTZ	S COUTURIER	C GIROUX

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

IR: P BERGERON

J TAVARES

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

M.E. VLASIC	D DOUGHTY
M RIELLY	A PIETRANGELO
M GIORDANO	B BURNS
	P.K. SUBBAN

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

C PRICE

M.A. FLUREY

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

B TEAM

E STAAL	R GETZLAF	J CARTER
J HUBERDEAU	J TOWES	R SMITH
B POINT	M BARZAL	J EBERLE
Y GOURDE	L COUTOUR	M STONE

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

IR: S MONAHAN

J MARCHESSAULT

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

J MUZZIN	R ELLIS
M MATHESON	D HAMILTON
T.J. BRODIE	C PARAYAKO
	J SPURGEON

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

IR: S WEBER

J ALLEN

M JONES

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

What player would you drop from the A Team to fit Barzal in? Everybody's whipping boy, Hall? Schwartz? I wouldn't. I can't even find room for my favorite player, JT in the Top 12 forwards.

 

[JackSlater]

I would say that I rate players 80% on performance and 20% just my subjective opinion. do I like the player or not.

B MARCHAND	S CROSBY	N MACKINNON

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hard to believe that Canada's potential top line could be all Nova Scotians. Never would have expected that to be a realistic possibility.

 

[Staniowski]

Hard to believe that Canada's potential top line could be all Nova Scotians. Never would have expected that to be a realistic possibility.

Yes, and not just Nova Scotians, but all 3 from Metro Halifax (which is less than half of the population of the province), and 2 of them from the same little suburb. Unbelievable. But they are that good. Crosby and Marchand were Canada's top 2 scorers at the 2016 World Cup.

The previous best Nova Scotian, Al MacInnis, was from rural Cape Breton Island.

The other region of Canada that's producing star forwards recently is the 905 suburbs of Toronto - McDavid, Stamkos, Tavares, Seguin, etc. The 905 has a much larger population than Halifax, but still very impressive.

Saskatchewan had usually produced the most NHLers per capita among the provinces. I'm not sure if that's currently the case.

As well, in previous eras both Montreal and rural Quebec produced a lot of NHL stars. Beliveau, Lafleur, Dionne, Perreault all from smalltown Quebec.

 

[jj cale]

Hard to believe that Canada's potential top line could be all Nova Scotians. Never would have expected that to be a realistic possibility.

I know eh? growing up in rural Cape breton as a kid it was just thought of as this impossible dream but then came Al Macinnis and Mike Mcphee. Mcphee is from my village where I grew up and Macinnis was from just down the road an hour away, i've got quite a few stories about both guys(all good ones of course) They showed it could be done and that you did not need to be from big Ontario/Quebec. Those guys were like Gods to us.

But this? Never could have ever dreamed that could have happened. I think the fact that Nova Scotia is still such a small place actually has worked in it's favor a little bit, there aren't as much distractions as there is in the big places and hockey is still such a big dream for kids, the old time religion of hockey is still alive a little more vibrantly there IMO.

Still, this is quite an aligning of the stars, may never happen again.

 

[jj cale]

I agree. Great skater. The thing is, too, he's not a young rookie, played 4 years in the WHL, 20 years old as a rookie in the NHL, and he'll be 21 this year. Looks good every time I see him.

The kids got a helluva offensive game.

 

[justafan22]

2002?

 

[JackSlater]

I know eh? growing up in rural Cape breton as a kid it was just thought of as this impossible dream but then came Al Macinnis and Mike Mcphee. Mcphee is from my village where I grew up and Macinnis was from just down the road an hour away, i've got quite a few stories about both guys(all good ones of course) They showed it could be done and that you did not need to be from big Ontario/Quebec. Those guys were like Gods to us.

But this? Never could have ever dreamed that could have happened. I think the fact that Nova Scotia is still such a small place actually has worked in it's favor a little bit, there aren't as much distractions as there is in the big places and hockey is still such a big dream for kids, the old time religion of hockey is still alive a little more vibrantly there IMO.

Still, this is quite an aligning of the stars, may never happen again.

I expect that Halifax will continue to produce quality players. In the past most hockey players came from smaller communities where players had lots of space to play outside and young kids could play against older kids. It didn't work so well for Atlantic players though as the streams to the NHL were difficult to enter. Consider Parker MacDonald from Sydney for instance, he didn't really crack the NHL for good until he was nearly in his mid 30s. Western Cape Breton has generally been strong in hockey but MacInnis isquite an outlier. The QMJHL coming to the region really helps, but the biggest factor I think is how big a role cities now play in developing NHL talent. Cities are really pooling the hockey resources now and providing by far the best opportunity for competition, and Halifax is big enough to provide the necessary resources.

In any event it is quite impressive that Nova Scotia has three elite players. Couturier's breakout is impressive for New Brunswick as well. Atlantic hockey has never been stronger.

 

[jj cale]

I expect that Halifax will continue to produce quality players. In the past most hockey players came from smaller communities where players had lots of space to play outside and young kids could play against older kids. It didn't work so well for Atlantic players though as the streams to the NHL were difficult to enter. Consider Parker MacDonald from Sydney for instance, he didn't really crack the NHL for good until he was nearly in his mid 30s. Western Cape Breton has generally been strong in hockey but MacInnis isquite an outlier. The QMJHL coming to the region really helps, but the biggest factor I think is how big a role cities now play in developing NHL talent. Cities are really pooling the hockey resources now and providing by far the best opportunity for competition, and Halifax is big enough to provide the necessary resources.

In any event it is quite impressive that Nova Scotia has three elite players. Couturier's breakout is impressive for New Brunswick as well. Atlantic hockey has never been stronger.

Totally agree with all this post.

Yes, Atlantic hockey has never been stronger, it's a beautiful thing!!

 

[Staniowski]

Totally agree with all this post.

Yes, Atlantic hockey has never been stronger, it's a beautiful thing!!

And on many of the rankings for the upcoming NHL draft, the top-ranked Canadian is Noah Dobson, who is from PEI.

 

[jj cale]

And on many of the rankings for the upcoming NHL draft, the top-ranked Canadian is Noah Dobson, who is from PEI.

Isn't it wonderful? It's a golden age for Atlantic Canadian hockey

 

[Reindl87]

I've always thought that if we could have sent NHL players to any previous Olympics, our best team would have been either 1988 or 1992. Gretzky, Lemieux and Messier would be your 1-2-3 centers for either team, all at or near their peak (its noteworthy that we wouldn't have gotten Lemieux in 1994 due to injury). Assuming this team is NOT coached by Mike Keenan, peak Yzerman also gets moved over to the wing or slotted in at 4C for either team. Those are four of your top ~15 centers of all time. Then, you have:
- Savard, Hawerchuk, Francis, Smith and Gilmour as options at center in 1988,
- Lindros, Hawerchuk, Francis, Gilmour, Nieuwendyk Oates, and Sakic as options in 1992.

With Messier on the team you wouldn't need a checking line center, but if you wanted to go down that route guys like Guy Carbonneau, Brent Sutter or Dave Poulin would be options (or the aforementioned Gilmour).

The wingers certainly aren't quite as good as the centers obviously, but you would still have options like (not exhaustive, and in no particular order):

- Muller, Dineen, Goulet, Gartner, Neely, Verbeek, Propp, C Lemieux, Larmer, and Anderson in 1988

- Shanahan, Recchi, Damphousse, Linden, Larmer, Robitaille, Fleury, Roberts, Gartner, Nolan, and Andreychuk in 1992

...in addition to any centers the coaching staff felt they could move over to the wing.

I think either of those forward groups are substantially stronger than Canada's current forward group.

Lemieux did play NHL games while the 1994 olympic hockey tournament was played, so we must consider him available.

 

[Big Phil]

This is a very strong forward crop for Canada. But we've had some excellent crops before. The best thing is looking at the forwards who did NOT make previous team Canada squads. 1991 had a ton of them. 1987 had the likes of Savard, Yzerman, Ciccarelli, Federko, Francis, etc. Lots of talent there.

I would say look no further than the 1976 Canada Cup team. Here were the forwards:
Lafleur, Clarke, Hull, Dionne, Esposito, Perreault, Sittler, McDonald, Mahovlich, Barber, Leach, Gainey, Martin, Gare, Shutt

That was your forward corps. There are 4 of the 14 that are not in the HHOF and each one of them was playing like a HHOFer at that time. The players that didn't make this team were: Jean Ratelle, Rene Robert, Jean Pronovost, Pierre Larouche, Yvan Cournoyer, Rod Gilbert. They literally had no room for multiple 100 point men..........from that previous season.

I don't think that can be beat.

This current crop is close though. There would be lots of great forwards that would have to be cut one way or another. Seguin, Benn, Scheifele, Getzlaf, even the always underrated Giroux aren't guaranteed spots if a team were picked today. That's a lot of talent.

 

[Big Phil]

Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Benn - McDavid - Seguin
Stamkos - Tavares - Giroux
Hall - Toews - Mackinnon

Insane.

If that team found a way to lose to another country I think I'd have a stroke................

 

[Dropkick Murphy]

If you compare with international competition, Team Canada 1890-1966 would had absolutely crushed all competition. Starting late sixties the new generation of Tarasov-trained Russians (Kharlamov, Tretjak etc) started to catch and to some point even surpassed Canadian dominance.

The next great generation was Gretzky-Lemieux-Yzerman-Sakic generation, which cemented back Canada’s domination. Then, after collapse of Soviet Union and new wave of NHL expansion, no Canadian generation have reached the levels seen before in relative terms.