Does a move to Winnipeg mean success for the NHL or did they move to the wrong city?

[headsigh]

They've said as much many times. But Manitoba is not going replace an arena it finished in 2004. Atlanta people are insulted? At what? Having to show up for the games instead of showing up as empty seats each night? I think its more of insult that the rest of the league subsidized a failure like the Thrashers for as long as they did.

If you're not the writer of the blog post: I apologize. for the below.
If you are: HF should probably not be partnering with someone as clueless as you.

Thrashers have drawn over 15k for at least 8 years of their existence and have drawn more than the Blackhawks, Bruins, Blues, Pens, and Caps. The team is worth at least 110 million dollars (by ASG's claim) and 140 million (by Forbes' claim). This isn't Phoenix levels of bankruptcy or fan apathy here. You'd think someone from Minnesota would empathize with a fanbase getting screwed by the owners, but I'm clearly mistaken.

What is an insult is that article, which did 0% research and 110% hyperbole to convey the fact that the writer just doesn't like Winnipeg, apparently.

 

[Kebekoi]

He says that the MTS Centre isn't suitable, but contradicts himself when saying that the NHL should move to Quebec instead.



MTS Centre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colisée

What about the new Colisée that is coming in 2015?

The Coyotes can play in the old for 2-3 years while the new one is built.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Inaccurate, useless amature article.

Yep.

Assertions of MTSC based on a visit "a few years ago", and his grammar leaves a lot to be desired too...

Yet soon after the North Stars left in 1993, many hockey fans their wealthy hockey-mad compatriots tried to be apart of the bidding war for other NHL franchises who wanted to seek out new pastures.

...so they didn't want to be involved in the bidding war?

 

[HabsByTheBay]

Can we stop acting like a 15,000 seat arena is too small?

That has been perfectly adequate for almost the entire history of the league.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

So when Mario Lemieux...

And the Penguins threatened to move you should've told him to shut up because Mellon Arena was over 15,000 in size. If 15,000 is enough; then why don't we have a single arena in the league (until possibly now when the NHL goes back to Winnipeg) with only that capacity? You may think 15,000 is enough but everything we as fans have heard from the league's owners the last 20 years would say you're wrong.

 

[AugustBurnsRed*]

And the Penguins threatened to move you should've told him to shut up because Mellon Arena was over 15,000 in size. If 15,000 is enough; then why don't we have a single arena in the league (until possibly now when the NHL goes back to Winnipeg) with only that capacity? You may think 15,000 is enough but everything we as fans have heard from the league's owners the last 20 years would say you're wrong.

Yeah Gary Bettman is wrong too. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and the arena seating is not why Lemieux/Penguins needed a new arena. In fact the CEC doesn't seat much more than the Mellon does. A 17,000 seat arena is good for Pittsburgh, a 15,000 seat arena is good for Winnipeg. Demand in 15,000 seater > giving away tickets to fill a 20,000 seater.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

You should apologize...

If you're not the writer of the blog post: I apologize. for the below.
If you are: HF should probably not be partnering with someone as clueless as you.

Thrashers have drawn over 15k for at least 8 years of their existence and have drawn more than the Blackhawks, Bruins, Blues, Pens, and Caps. The team is worth at least 110 million dollars (by ASG's claim) and 140 million (by Forbes' claim). This isn't Phoenix levels of bankruptcy or fan apathy here. You'd think someone from Minnesota would empathize with a fanbase getting screwed by the owners, but I'm clearly mistaken.

What is an insult is that article, which did 0% research and 110% hyperbole to convey the fact that the writer just doesn't like Winnipeg, apparently.

Really? 15,000 for 8 years? So what? If hockey is so popular in Atlanta, why doesn't someone step up and buy the team and keep it there? If they're making money (which I doubt), who wouldn't want to add a business like that? If Nashville can do that why can't Atlanta? $110 million is dirt cheap for a professional sports franchise. Its not fan apathy eh? Really, then explain this?

That is a photo from a regular season game against Pittsburgh this season when Atlanta was playing some of its best hockey. Does that look like 15,000 to you? What are the Capitals, Blackhawks, Penguins, Blues, and Bruins drawing now? Why do people want to own those teams and keep them in their respective cities and not Atlanta?

I have nothing at all against Winnipeg. I love Winnipeg and I have friends there, I just question if Quebec should've been chosen first. I have little doubt if a team was given to Quebec City they'd expedite their plans for a new Colisee. I even said they'll likely be successful but they do have some immediate issues to work out.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

Yeah Gary Bettman is wrong too. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and the arena seating is not why Lemieux/Penguins needed a new arena. In fact the CEC doesn't seat much more than the Mellon does. A 17,000 seat arena is good for Pittsburgh, a 15,000 seat arena is good for Winnipeg. Demand in 15,000 seater > giving away tickets to fill a 20,000 seater.

So the NHL should start looking at places like Brandon or Flin Flon...because 8,000 in Brandon or 4,000 in Flin Flon its just as good as 17,000 in Pittsburgh. Yea, why not eh?!?! Its all relative right?

 

[AugustBurnsRed*]

So the NHL should start looking at places like Brandon or Flin Flon...because 8,000 in Brandon or 4,000 in Flin Flon its just as good as 17,000 in Pittsburgh. Yea, why not eh?!?! Its all relative right?

WOW

 

[Wheathead]

So the NHL should start looking at places like Brandon or Flin Flon...because 8,000 in Brandon or 4,000 in Flin Flon its just as good as 17,000 in Pittsburgh. Yea, why not eh?!?! Its all relative right?

Demand drive price. You can charge a lot more for tickets in a 15 000 seat arena that sells out than an 18 000 seat arena that has lower attendances.

They won't need to be giving away tickets for free/almost free in Winnipeg, and that's a good thing for the NHL.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Really? 15,000 for 8 years? So what? If hockey is so popular in Atlanta, why doesn't someone step up and buy the team and keep it there?

Because ASG doesn't care and they don't want an NHL team competing with the Hawks for dates unless a new owner leases Phillips Arena while getting a tiny percentage at most of the profits.

So you tell us how that would be a good business model.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

Yet...

It doesn't matter which sport you're talking about ownership always insists its about the premium seating. Most new arenas have a club level and executive suites. MTS lacks much of those kinds of opportunities for premium that NHL ownership says is their big money makers. So really, tell me what I don't know.

 

[pucka lucka]

It doesn't matter which sport you're talking about ownership always insists its about the premium seating. Most new arenas have a club level and executive suites. MTS lacks much of those kinds of opportunities for premium that NHL ownership says is their big money makers. So really, tell me what I don't know.

What are you talking about? You think they left out the premium seats? Welcome to BoH, you'll need to do better than this.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

That's fine...

Demand drive price. You can charge a lot more for tickets in a 15 000 seat arena that sells out than an 18 000 seat arena that has lower attendances.

They won't need to be giving away tickets for free/almost free in Winnipeg, and that's a good thing for the NHL.

Of course demand should be higher. Yet will those profits be turned around into creating a better arena experience? How much do you think Winnipeg fans would pay? Its nice to say they'll pay that much but really is that affluent to pay Toronto Maple Leafs type prices?

 

[LemaireisGOD]

What are you talking about? You think they left out the premium seats? Welcome to BoH, you'll need to do better than this.

Not completely, but its paltry by recent arena standards. When you consider MTS was completed in 2004 its pretty basic.

 

[pucka lucka]

Not completely, but its paltry by recent arena standards. When you consider MTS was completed in 2004 its pretty basic.

What exactly is paltry? It's not the best arena in NA, but I am curious what specifically, besides being a little small, you think are the problems. Please provide details with numbers.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

Because ASG doesn't care and they don't want an NHL team competing with the Hawks for dates unless a new owner leases Phillips Arena while getting a tiny percentage at most of the profits.

So you tell us how that would be a good business model.

Precisely my point, the Thrashers were not making any money so they wanted to rid themselves of the franchise. Yet there are plenty of NBA/NHL teams that make it work just fine. Obviously the ownership they could do better with just the Hawks.

 

[LemaireisGOD]

What exactly is paltry? It's not the best arena in NA, but I am curious what specifically, besides being a little small, you think are the problems. Please provide details with numbers.

(sigh) I articulated these problems elsewhere but if you insist.

~ Small concourses
~ No intermediate tier of seating (i.e. the modern club level)
~ Lack of seats to capitalize fully on expected demand

So you think people are going jump all over paying $85-$120 per game? Or $250 for on the glass seats for a full season?

But hey, go ahead and sellout the arena. Doesn't matter to me. I just think its silly to jack up the prices for 15,000 seats then to have 18,000 at a more reasonable price even if its by $10-$15 per ticket. I am sure the first season the mark ups on tickets will be crazy.

 

[pucka lucka]

(sigh) I articulated these problems elsewhere but if you insist.

~ Small concourses
~ No intermediate tier of seating (i.e. the modern club level)
~ Lack of seats to capitalize fully on expected demand

So you think people are going jump all over paying $85-$120 per game? Or $250 for on the glass seats for a full season?

But hey, go ahead and sellout the arena. Doesn't matter to me. I just think its silly to jack up the prices for 15,000 seats then to have 18,000 at a more reasonable price even if its by $10-$15 per ticket. I am sure the first season the mark ups on tickets will be crazy.

There are club seats. As I said BESIDES being a little small. I think 16,500 would be a better size, but any bigger and it would have been a tough fit in its current location. You know there is someone who posts here who worked on the project right?

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Well I'm exhausted from the 10 seconds of research I just did (which is about 10 seconds more than LemaireisGOD) but anyways.

Lower Bowl - 8,812 seats
Upper Bowl - 6,203 seats
Club Level - 936 seats
Private Suites - 1,032 in 46 suites
Party Suites - 88 in 2 suites

http://www.mtscentre.ca/arena/index.php

 

[9876]

While I prefer Atlanta to Winnipeg, if Winnipeg can be independently sustainable I could support it as an NHL market. I think that for the league any time you can add solid market it cannot be seen as anything but a success, at least in the short run.

That is a big 'if' though, even in optomistic reports (however uninformed they may be), they include revenue sharing. To me that just seems wrong; an established hockey hot-bed should not need revenue sharing to survive, save for extreme temporary negative economic shocks.

 

[C77]

I tend to lean pro-Winnipeg with regard to an NHL team there.

However, I think the point some people are trying to make is that just because Winnipeg is better than Phoenix doesn't mean it's that good, and even though the people that live in Winnipeg undoubtedly love hockey that does not mean it's going to be a long-term success either.

Boston Globe - HHOF writer - Kevin Paul Dupont has written about this and doesn't seem to keen on Winnipeg's viability.

http://articles.boston.com/2011-05-22/sports/29571931_1_winnipeg-manitoba-nhl-debut

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

It takes about $80 million for a cap-heavy team to break even. Maybe TV money and sponsorship deals contribute $15 million. That means a team needs to generate $1.58 million from its fans per home game. That means each fan (assuming a sellout of 15,500) in Winnipeg must spend an average of $102 a game, including tickets, parking and refreshments (assuming all those revenue streams head to True North Sports and Entertainment). How hard is that? According to Forbes.com, the Edmonton Oilers earn about $81 per fan a game.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...questions-as-nhl-poised-to-return-to-winnipeg

 

[knorthern knight]

Well I'm exhausted from the 10 seconds of research I just did (which is about 10 seconds more than LemaireisGOD) but anyways.

Lower Bowl - 8,812 seats
Upper Bowl - 6,203 seats
Club Level - 936 seats
Private Suites - 1,032 in 46 suites
Party Suites - 88 in 2 suites

http://www.mtscentre.ca/arena/index.php

Lest anyone get confused, I should point out that you skipped one important line from the website...

Lower Bowl 8812 seats
(includes private suites, party suites and club seats)

Don't double-count those 2056 seats. Let's run some numbers, using a guess at average prices...

• 2056 club/private/party seats @ $250 (average) = $514,000
• 6756 regular lower bowl seats @ $150 (average) = $1,013,400
• 6203 upper bowl seats @ $75 (average) = $465,225

That's $1,992,625 per game = $81,697,625 in a 41 game season. That's just attendance alone.

NHL TV revenue share = approx $6 million per year per team from NBC versus plus $4 million from Canadian networks, and you're already looking at $91 million plus per year. Throw in arena concessions and parking plus 1/30th share of NHL jersey sales. And $100 million annual revenue is within reach. Note that I'm not expecting Winnipeg to get revenue-sharing handouts

 

[BigZ65]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...questions-as-nhl-poised-to-return-to-winnipeg

$15 million for sponsorship AND TV rights? That seems a little low, I'd expect the cut of the HNIC pie to be in that range on its own, then you get the Sportsnet deal for local/cable rights and PPV games. Hard to believe they'd only haul $15 mil for media rights, let alone sponsorship.