Does a Cup Win/Conn Smyth make Ovechkin a top 10 player of all time?

[Beige Van]

Title says it all. Yay or nay?

Click to read more...

 

[Silky mitts]

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Messier
Richard
Crosby

Tough to put Ovy ahead of those guys, but then I think there are solid arguments for Ovy over anyone else. For Esposito, his contemporaries were Hull, Howe, Orr - did he spend as much time as a top 3 player as Ovy? Similar comparisons for Lidstrom, Roy, and Bourque.

 

[Nocashstyle]

He certainly has a case

 

[Hockeyholic]

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Messier
Richard
Crosby

Tough to put Ovy ahead of those guys, but then I think there are solid arguments for Ovy over anyone else. For Esposito, his contemporaries were Hull, Howe, Orr - did he spend as much time as a top 3 player as Ovy? Similar comparisons for Lidstrom, Roy, and Bourque.

One of those guys isn't like the other...Although his leadership is second to none.

He's already better than Crosby too

 

[Lauro]

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Messier
Richard
Crosby

Tough to put Ovy ahead of those guys, but then I think there are solid arguments for Ovy over anyone else. For Esposito, his contemporaries were Hull, Howe, Orr - did he spend as much time as a top 3 player as Ovy? Similar comparisons for Lidstrom, Roy, and Bourque.

 

[Silky mitts]

Gretzky gets traded he wins another cup, he gets traded from the dominant team in sports to a team that didn't break 85 points in a decade and hadn't won a cup in 50 years and he wins another cup. Best player on 2 champions in his prime, running mate to Gretzky on 4 more championship teams, I don't know who is in anyone else's list but I'd take Messier over Jagr in the playoffs at the same age at any age.

 

[amnesiac]

No, but damn close.

Gretz
Orr
Mario
Howe
Hull
Crosby
Beliveau
Richard
Harvey
Jagr

Hasek
Morenz
Bourque
Ovie
Mikita
Roy
Lidstrom
Shore
Messier
etc

 

[amnesiac]

Gretzky gets traded he wins another cup, he gets traded from the dominant team in sports to a team that didn't break 85 points in a decade and hadn't won a cup in 50 years and he wins another cup. Best player on 2 champions in his prime, running mate to Gretzky on 4 more championship teams, I don't know who is in anyone else's list but I'd take Messier over Jagr in the playoffs at the same age at any age.

0 scoring titles

 

[Meeqs]

IMO he is already THE best goal scorer of all time. I see very little reason he wouldn't at least be in the conversation.

 

[Thenameless]

For me, he's just on the outside looking in. Definitely one of the top goal scorers of all time, but within that top 10-15, there are players that had a more complete game.

 

[tony d]

No, but I think it'd make him the undisputed 2nd best LW ever (Behind only Hull).

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

OV with a smythe surpasses Bobby Hull. So yes.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Messier is borderline top 10...certainly ahead of Jagr.

Ovechkin... Lets wait a little longer

 

[Regal]

OV with a smythe surpasses Bobby Hull. So yes.

Why? Hull still has more years as an elite player and was better relative to the league in his best years

 

[Plural]

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Howe
Messier
Richard
Crosby

Tough to put Ovy ahead of those guys, but then I think there are solid arguments for Ovy over anyone else. For Esposito, his contemporaries were Hull, Howe, Orr - did he spend as much time as a top 3 player as Ovy? Similar comparisons for Lidstrom, Roy, and Bourque.

Change Mess for Beliveau

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Similar peak, similar prime, similar individual hardware.. But OV has the best playoff run and still has time to add. Maybe I should have said will surpass if he doesn't fall off a cliff.

 

[GlitchMarner]

No, but damn close.

Gretz
Orr
Mario
Howe
Hull
Crosby
Beliveau
Richard
Harvey
Jagr

Hasek
Morenz
Bourque
Ovie
Mikita
Roy
Lidstrom
Shore
Messier
etc

Esposito? Lafleur?

 

[GlitchMarner]

What happened to the idea that Malkin > Ovechkin? That seemed to be a notion with some support last year (not to say I agree or agreed with it).

What about really old school guys like Joe Malone and Cy Denneny?

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

What happened to the idea that Malkin > Ovechkin? That seemed to be a notion with some support last year (not to say I agree or agreed with it).

What about really old school guys like Joe Malone and Cy Denneny?

Malkin>OV was only supported by extremely biased pens fans and/or OV haters. OV beats him for peak, extended peak, prime, tears him a new one in awards. Only thing Malkin has is cups and that doesn't really matter when the rest of the argument isn't close.

 

[Byron Bitz]

No but I believe it solidifies his place as the greatest goal scorer of all time.

 

[bobbyking]

Why? Hull still has more years as an elite player and was better relative to the league in his best years

Wasn't hull in a league where he was the only one using a banana curve ? Full of expansion garbage?

 

[Regal]

Wasn't hull in a league where he was the only one using a banana curve ? Full of expansion garbage?

Curved blades go back further than Hull, and while he and Mikita are usually credited for starting the trend in the 60's he wasn't the only one. A banana blade also has its cons and no one else was prevented from using one until the league limited the amount if curve.

As for expansion, it didn't happen until Hull was 29 and already had the bulk of his awards.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Wasn't hull in a league where he was the only one using a banana curve ? Full of expansion garbage?

by the time expansion happened, Hull already had 2x Hart, 5x Rocket (3x led playoffs in goals), 3x Ross, 6x AS-1 and a Cup

 

[Lauro]

Gretzky gets traded he wins another cup, he gets traded from the dominant team in sports to a team that didn't break 85 points in a decade and hadn't won a cup in 50 years and he wins another cup. Best player on 2 champions in his prime, running mate to Gretzky on 4 more championship teams, I don't know who is in anyone else's list but I'd take Messier over Jagr in the playoffs at the same age at any age.

He's not even in the Top 25!

 

[Sweetpotato]

With a cup, maybe a Smythe? By the end of his career no question depending on his final goal totals.