Signing(s): Dodgers sign Mookie Betts to monster 12 year contract

[Perennial]

If you're the best pitcher, but you can only do it 1 inning at a time, you aren't the best pitcher. Simple logic. There's a reason SP prospects get downgraded to RP prospects..not the other way around.

Where's the logic?

Insisting a pitcher throw an arbitrary amount of innings in order to be considered "the best" is just that - arbitrary

 

[Cas]

Where's the logic?

Insisting a pitcher throw an arbitrary amount of innings in order to be considered "the best" is just that - arbitrary

How many innings do you consider "arbitrary?"

• Tyler Rogers had a 1.02 ERA last year - in 17.2 innings.
• Brent Suter had a 0.49 ERA in 18.1 innings.
• Jacob Webb, 1.39 in 32.1.
• Kirby Yates, 1.19 in 60.2.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Where's the logic?

Insisting a pitcher throw an arbitrary amount of innings in order to be considered "the best" is just that - arbitrary

You can't be the 'best' pitcher if a batter never sees you a 2nd time the same day. The best starter in the league is better than the best relief pitcher by default. Pitchers become relief pitchers because the position allows you to hide weaknesses that get found out with SPs whether that's loss of command after X pitches or a highly limited arsenal of pitches etc.

The media and fans love good relief pitchers because of the 'clutch' factor and the 'drama' of it all, but it's really in some ways pretty gimmicky. Nothing against guys who managed to carve out a great career in that niche, but yeah I'll take Greg Maddux over Mariano Rivera any day all day.

 

[Perennial]

You can't be the 'best' pitcher if a batter never sees you a 2nd time the same day. The best starter in the league is better than the best relief pitcher by default. Pitchers become relief pitchers because the position allows you to hide weaknesses that get found out with SPs whether that's loss of command after X pitches or a highly limited arsenal of pitches etc.

The media and fans love good relief pitchers because of the 'clutch' factor and the 'drama' of it all, but it's really in some ways pretty gimmicky. Nothing against guys who managed to carve out a great career in that niche, but yeah I'll take Greg Maddux over Mariano Rivera any day all day.

I asked where the logic was... and you open with that?

You're just making things up...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I asked where the logic was... and you open with that?

You're just making things up...

Please tell me then how often an average high leverage reliever (i.e. a closer or setup man) faces the order twice and if he does, please tell me what his stats would be for that to happen.

 

[Perennial]

Please tell me then how often an average high leverage reliever (i.e. a closer or setup man) faces the order twice and if he does, please tell me what his stats would be for that to happen.

What does facing the order twice have to do with who the best pitcher is?

That's like saying you can't be the best shootout goalie unless you face each shooter more than once...

Arbitrary rules are arbitrary

 

[Cas]

What does facing the order twice have to do with who the best pitcher is?

That's like saying you can't be the best shootout goalie unless you face each shooter more than once...

Arbitrary rules are arbitrary

Pitcher effectiveness decreases with each time through the lineup. There are two likely causes - fatigue and batter familiarity with the pitcher's arsenal (which doesn't so much apply in the reverse).

All rules are arbitrary anyway.

 

[Perennial]

Pitcher effectiveness decreases with each time through the lineup. There are two likely causes - fatigue and batter familiarity with the pitcher's arsenal (which doesn't so much apply in the reverse).

All rules are arbitrary anyway.

Pitching multiple times through the lineup doesn't make one a better pitcher, only a more valuable one...

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Where's the logic?

Insisting a pitcher throw an arbitrary amount of innings in order to be considered "the best" is just that - arbitrary

Who should win the Vezina, a back up with a 1.90 gaa and a .930 s% in 10 starts or a 2.10 gaa and a .924 s% in 68 games?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Pitching multiple times through the lineup doesn't make one a better pitcher, only a more valuable one...

I'm not sure what point you think you're making with that distinction, but at the end of the day "value" is "good for the team", I don't know what other factor is more important in determining who is the "best" at a sport or a position in a sport. How dashing they look in a uniform? Their autograph giving skills? The starting pitcher is more valuable, as a result the best pitchers get groomed as starters, starter prospects who wash out at some point have a 2nd chance as relievers. If a relief pitcher is the best pitcher in baseball why would any team not want him to be a starter where he can provide more value to the team? Therefore, logically, if he remains a reliever there is the knowledge that he probably would not be a very good starter, certainly not the best in the league. In other words they acknowledge he is worse than the best starters.