Do You View This Team as a Legitimate Cup Contender?

Do you consider the Blues Cup contenders for the upcoming season?


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BlueDream

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Aug 30, 2011
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I think our team defense is just as important to focus on. That’s why I’m in favor of bringing back Bozak, and Saad to replace Schwartz. Buchnevich is a big upgrade on Tarasenko/Hoffman defensively. Also getting Sundqvist back.

A healthy Parayko will help, but we also need guys like Mikkola/Walman and even Robert Thomas to take steps toward improving. If all these things happen, which I know may be a big if, we would really be in fine shape.
 

Bluesguru

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Aug 10, 2014
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Changed my vote to yes. I like this team but we need to solidify the D. But right now our forward group is pretty good if healthy. Thomas needs to step up big time. Kyrou needs to build off of last year. And Kostin needs to win a job so he can grow into something special.
 

GoldenSeal

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Dec 1, 2013
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If everyone shows up and stays healthy, we can beat anyone. Waiting to see who ends up winning the backup job, we got some quality choices.
 
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fishsandwichpatrol

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Mar 29, 2014
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Same as last year: tentatively yes, but they have something to prove. Forward core seems fine, but the defense has to prove itself. Not worried about Binner, he was great in the playoffs despite almost everyone else stinking it up.
 
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Brian39

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Apr 24, 2014
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Today? Nope. I think that the current roster is a playoff team with a healthy Binner, but not a genuine contender.

However, I think the chances of this roster still being the roster by March of 2022 are next to zero. I will be very surprised if Bozak isn't added to the roster between now and then. I'll be very surprised if Tarasenko is still on the roster by then. That trade (or suspension) and/or the cascading effects to the roster as a result of that trade will determine whether I believe we are a 2nd tier contender or a team whose best-chance scenario is making a run before being convincingly put down but a top team.
 
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Stealth JD

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This team as constructed is good enough to be in the fight a playoff spot with Minny/Dallas/Nashvilly/Chicago...with a very real shot of missing if Parayko isn't extended and instead is dealt. The offense and goaltending is fine. The defense and penalty-killing are huge red flags, and the team has way too many *ifs* for it to be a contender. Unless Perunovich hits the ground running like Makar did (fantasyland projection) this team appears woefully inadequate on the back end. Three second-pairing guys, and three replacement-level defenders does not a contender make.

I think the only 2 teams with spots locked up are Colorado & Winnipeg. Minnesota would be my 3rd favorite...Dallas & STL fighting 4/5...Nashville and Chicago at 6/7. Coyotes are lottery hunting.
 
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Brian39

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This team as constructed is good enough to be in the fight a playoff spot with Minny/Dallas/Nashvilly/Chicago...with a very real shot of missing if Parayko isn't extended and instead is dealt. The offense and goaltending is fine. The defense and penalty-killing are huge red flags, and the team has way too many *ifs* for it to be a contender. Unless Perunovich hits the ground running like Makar did (fantasyland projection) this team appears woefully inadequate on the back end. Three second-pairing guys, and three replacement-level defenders does not a contender make.

I think the only 2 teams with spots locked up are Colorado & Winnipeg. Minnesota would be my 3rd favorite...Dallas & STL fighting 4/5...Nashville and Chicago at 6/7. Coyotes are lottery hunting.
I don't disagree with your overall assessment, but I have an extraordinarily hard time agreeing that none of Parayko, Faulk or Krug are inside the top 64 D men in the league. I don't like the construction of the blue line, but I think it is much better than the bolded.
 
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Stealth JD

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I don't disagree with your overall assessment, but I have an extraordinarily hard time agreeing that none of Parayko, Faulk or Krug are inside the top 64 D men in the league. I don't like the construction of the blue line, but I think it is much better than the bolded.
Where's Colt "best" suited? Shut-down role on the 2nd pair. He's the best bet to not get caved in by the opposing top-lines, but he hasn't yet taken that next step to #1D as hoped.
Faulk or Krug? Definitely not top-pairing. These two get feasted upon by the best players in the world.

Ideally, none of those guys are top-line players though. There's a glaring absence of top-line, any-situation, matchups-be-damned defensemen who can allow the 'lesser' well-rounded players to excel. Paryako, Faulk & Krug are all 'lesser' well-rounded than the top-10/15 defensemen in the league...or are at least not as dynamic as true "franchise"-level defensemen. If any of those four are top-pairing guys, it's only because they're playing with the right partner...not because they're carrying a pairing like so many #1Ds of the past; which this franchise has been blessed to have had so many.
 
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Mike Liut

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We are a very good #1 LD away from being a serious cup contender. Our top 12 are as good as anybody’s in the league. Even without a #1 LD, this is a very good roster.
 

Brian39

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Where's Colt "best" suited? Shut-down role on the 2nd pair. He's the best bet to not get caved in by the opposing top-lines, but he hasn't yet taken that next step to #1D as hoped.
Faulk or Krug? Definitely not top-pairing. These two get feasted upon by the best players in the world.

Ideally, none of those guys are top-line players though. There's a glaring absence of top-line, any-situation, matchups-be-damned defensemen who can allow the 'lesser' well-rounded players to excel. Paryako, Faulk & Krug are all 'lesser' well-rounded than the top-10/15 defensemen in the league...or are at least not as dynamic as true "franchise"-level defensemen. If any of those four are top-pairing guys, it's only because they're playing with the right partner...not because they're carrying a pairing like so many #1Ds of the past; which this franchise has been blessed to have had so many.
There is a huge difference between a #1D that can carry a pairing like you describe and simply a top pairing D man. You're talking about the top 10/15 D in the league meeting your description and then describing everyone else as a 2nd pairing guy. That's like saying a guy isn't a top line player because he isn't a top 25 forward in the league.

I absolutely agree that none of our D are Norris contenders that are all situation #1 D men that can carry a top pair. But that doesn't mean that they are thus a 2nd pair guy.
 
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Ranksu

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There is a huge difference between a #1D that can carry a pairing like you describe and simply a top pairing D man. You're talking about the top 10/15 D in the league meeting your description and then describing everyone else as a 2nd pairing guy. That's like saying a guy isn't a top line player because he isn't a top 25 forward in the league.

I absolutely agree that none of our D are Norris contenders that are all situation #1 D men that can carry a top pair. But that doesn't mean that they are thus a 2nd pair guy.
But Faulk and Krug are kind of ish paid like 1st pair dmen. So they are basically 1st pair guys. :dunno:
 

GoldenSeal

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But Faulk and Krug are kind of ish paid like 1st pair dmen. So they are basically 1st pair guys. :dunno:

Colt + Krug can do some serious damage.

Pair Faulk with a strong Stay at home type or really big physical Dman and that also can do some damage. Both pairs could defend and produce points.
 

Stealth JD

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Colt + Krug can do some serious damage.

Pair Faulk with a strong Stay at home type or really big physical Dman and that also can do some damage. Both pairs could defend and produce points.

There is no scenario where Parayko can adequately shelter Krug on the top-pairing against the other team's top forwards. Parayko is good...but he's not a god, which he'd have to be to shut-down both sides of the ice and the front of the net. Krug needs to be sheltered like Dunn was, or at the very least get matched-up against the other team's second and third lines. Krug and Faulk together as the second pair were good early in the season. But once they were forced into top-pairing duties in Parayko's absence, they were caved in. Swap Faulk for Colt, and the other team still feasts.
 

Blueston

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There is no scenario where Parayko can adequately shelter Krug on the top-pairing against the other team's top forwards. Parayko is good...but he's not a god, which he'd have to be to shut-down both sides of the ice and the front of the net. Krug needs to be sheltered like Dunn was, or at the very least get matched-up against the other team's second and third lines. Krug and Faulk together as the second pair were good early in the season. But once they were forced into top-pairing duties in Parayko's absence, they were caved in. Swap Faulk for Colt, and the other team still feasts.
I don’t think this is right. As the game has evolved, most effective way to defend is to play in offensive zone. If Krug can get puck in transition and help us play in o zone then he is better suited to play than some big guy who is poor with puck.
 
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Brian39

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This narrative that Faulk/Krug are like baby deer against top teams and got played out of the building down the stretch has gotten out of control. I don't want them as the top pair. They aren't good enough together to be a top pair on a contender. But this notion that they can't even hang in the building is not based in reality.

As a pairing, they were on the ice for 9 goals for and 7 goals against at 5 on 5 from April 1 through the end of the season. Krug played 16 games in that stretch (he missed some due to injury) and 14 of them were against Colorado, Vegas and Minnesota. 8 of the 16 games were against top 3 offenses league-wide and another 6 games were against the league's 9th best offense. They were on the ice for 7 goals against in those 16 games and on the ice for 9goals for. They were not getting sheltered usage in this stretch (52% offensive zone starts and consistently out vs quality competition) and while their underlying numbers weren't at all good, they were better than Parayko's (who has been caved in statistically for most of his career because that is kind of just how it goes when you are asked to be a shut down pair).

Again, I do not view them as a good enough top pairing to contend, but everyone needs to stop pretending that they got supremely demolished when we played good teams. Krug had an even +/- in 6 of the 8 games vs Colorado and Vegas during that stretch. Playing those offenses to even when you're out there for 18-20 minutes at even strength is an absolute win and they did it in 6 of those 8 games.

I want to experiment with a Krug-Parayko and Scandella-Faulk as the top 4. They won't be successful if Berube insists on trying to use Parayko in a pure shutdown role, but I don't think Scandella-Parayko will be successful in that role either. I think we need to move away from the top 4 being a shutdown pair plus a scoring pair and instead try to have two balanced pairs. I don't see how you can confidently say that Parayko can't adequately cover for Krug unless you believe that Faulk and Parayko are roughly even defensively in their own zone. Faulk mostly sheltered Krug against the top lines this year and I think Parayko is good enough defensively to do a bit better. It will be a catastrophe if we're asking them to do nothing but shut down top lines, but that isn't what we should be doing if the other pair is Scandella-Faulk. Using the same logic that Krug is pathetic in his own zone, you have to believe that Scandella would improve Faulk's results in the defensive zone.
 

Blueston

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This narrative that Faulk/Krug are like baby deer against top teams and got played out of the building down the stretch has gotten out of control. I don't want them as the top pair. They aren't good enough together to be a top pair on a contender. But this notion that they can't even hang in the building is not based in reality.

As a pairing, they were on the ice for 9 goals for and 7 goals against at 5 on 5 from April 1 through the end of the season. Krug played 16 games in that stretch (he missed some due to injury) and 14 of them were against Colorado, Vegas and Minnesota. 8 of the 16 games were against top 3 offenses league-wide and another 6 games were against the league's 9th best offense. They were on the ice for 7 goals against in those 16 games and on the ice for 9goals for. They were not getting sheltered usage in this stretch (52% offensive zone starts and consistently out vs quality competition) and while their underlying numbers weren't at all good, they were better than Parayko's (who has been caved in statistically for most of his career because that is kind of just how it goes when you are asked to be a shut down pair).

Again, I do not view them as a good enough top pairing to contend, but everyone needs to stop pretending that they got supremely demolished when we played good teams. Krug had an even +/- in 6 of the 8 games vs Colorado and Vegas during that stretch. Playing those offenses to even when you're out there for 18-20 minutes at even strength is an absolute win and they did it in 6 of those 8 games.

I want to experiment with a Krug-Parayko and Scandella-Faulk as the top 4. They won't be successful if Berube insists on trying to use Parayko in a pure shutdown role, but I don't think Scandella-Parayko will be successful in that role either. I think we need to move away from the top 4 being a shutdown pair plus a scoring pair and instead try to have two balanced pairs. I don't see how you can confidently say that Parayko can't adequately cover for Krug unless you believe that Faulk and Parayko are roughly even defensively in their own zone. Faulk mostly sheltered Krug against the top lines this year and I think Parayko is good enough defensively to do a bit better. It will be a catastrophe if we're asking them to do nothing but shut down top lines, but that isn't what we should be doing if the other pair is Scandella-Faulk. Using the same logic that Krug is pathetic in his own zone, you have to believe that Scandella would improve Faulk's results in the defensive zone.
There you go using facts and logic again..
 

GoldenSeal

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I don’t think this is right. As the game has evolved, most effective way to defend is to play in offensive zone. If Krug can get puck in transition ancient help us play in o zone then he is better suited to play than some big guy who is poor with puck.

Thank you. This is what I was thinking too based on what I’ve seen.
 
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GoldenSeal

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There is no scenario where Parayko can adequately shelter Krug on the top-pairing against the other team's top forwards. Parayko is good...but he's not a god, which he'd have to be to shut-down both sides of the ice and the front of the net. Krug needs to be sheltered like Dunn was, or at the very least get matched-up against the other team's second and third lines. Krug and Faulk together as the second pair were good early in the season. But once they were forced into top-pairing duties in Parayko's absence, they were caved in. Swap Faulk for Colt, and the other team still feasts.

When I say “damage”, I’m really talking about points. We really don’t have much of a shutdown pairing at all and Krug in the O-Zone has been pretty good for us, along with Faulk.
 

Stealth JD

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When I say “damage”, I’m really talking about points. We really don’t have much of a shutdown pairing at all and Krug in the O-Zone has been pretty good for us, along with Faulk.
I'm not unconvinced that the Blues best strategy next season might be to run-and-gun and try to be the first team to score 6. They've got the forwards (and defense) to make a go of it.
 

Ranksu

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I'm not unconvinced that the Blues best strategy next season might be to run-and-gun and try to be the first team to score 6. They've got the forwards (and defense) to make a go of it.
What makes it even funnier is that Berube is known for offence first.
 

Ranksu

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They aren’t nearly fast enough as a team to do this
We are build to play defense first type of game. So it baffles why Army go after midget dmens knowing how team performed totally opposite type dmen = win franchise first Stanley Cup.


Or


You bring coach who can coach team to play more offensively. Expecially get better usage for Krug and Faulk, 'cus we are stuck with them 6 more years.
 
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