Salary Cap: Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?

Do you trust Kyle Dubas with salary negotiations?


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socko

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
7,433
5,211
Martinez, GA
Larkin and Hyman were a great fit in college. It would get Hyman off of Matthews and Tavares lines where he does more harm than good and create a new shutdown line. Kadri would have to move to the wing.
 

Maplebeasts

I See Demons!!!!!
Oct 26, 2014
20,706
12,323
Barrie, Ontario
There is no reason to panic. Apparently if media speculation was correct, Nylander originally wanted 8+ and got payed like his comparables adjusted for cap inflation in the end. Until Dubas has some kind of track record it isn't wise to worry about it.
 

luvdahattymatty

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
511
405
Gramps here. I trust Dubas because Shanny hired him. His heart must be in the right place and I'm confident he is looking after the teams best interests. If he overpays Willy, Matty and Mitch by 1M each more in AAV than he should oh well. That in my mind is not a big deal. The bigger issue is getting all 3 signed. Thats my take.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
48,490
11,109
ask yourself this: who does Larkin play with? Now imagine him on Mathews wing..........nuff said.
There are also benefits to being the primary offensive option like he is compared to having 3 offensive lines and seeing 2nd PP usage.

It's awesome to play with a guy like Matthews. It's also great to get the puck in every scoring opportunity. Larkin gets one of those, Nylander gets the other. Neither gets both.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,975
32,364
St. Paul, MN
There are also benefits to being the primary offensive option like he is compared to having 3 offensive lines and seeing 2nd PP usage.

It's awesome to play with a guy like Matthews. It's also great to get the puck in every scoring opportunity. Larkin gets one of those, Nylander gets the other. Neither gets both.

Larkin also got more average icetime.

Nylander had an overwhelmingly stronger negotiation position than Larkin. It’s just silly for anyone to suggest otherwise
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
People keep missing the fact Nylander had 2 61 point seasons with less TOI. Larkin went from 45-63. In fact Pastrynak went from 30's to 70.
Those 2 61 point seasons are a big reason Nylander got paid.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
4,792
1,998
I had my concerns with him being so green. But I wouldn't say I have a bias towards disliking him. Don't like what he did with our backup situation....the willy hing....trading Leivo for a water bottle.....his actions have made me question him.

Explain your different view then. I don't see how anyone can spin that situation as good.
Basically,I trust Shanny. Shanny likes what Dubas brings to the table. He won in the Sault,he won with the Marlies. He is a new breed so to speak,so for sure the jury is still out on him. McBackup was my preference as well,but only for this year,so I get where Dubas may be thinking long term on the goalie front. Sparky has been better than I thought he would...wouldn't you agree? Willy,well again,not being privy to the pertinent details,is really difficult for me to blame Dubas. I lean towards the greed factor of the Willy camp. In the end,he is signed,he is here and will be for quite a few years,hopefully producing better than he is presently. Leivo...could of just been doing Josh a favor,Babs had no plans for Josh. You are right to question him,I do as well,but some of the decisions that need to be made will always bring debate.
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
Maybe if Lou didnt fight these guys over their signing bonuses, they'd be more inclined to have an easy negotiation with the team now. No doubt about it, Lou set a negative tone with these guys and the Leafs will have to pay for it.

Lou had no problem signing our guys to team friendly deals. He's also a Stanley Cup winner and a first place GM right now. After tonight there's a good chance were a wild card team. Ouch.
 
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The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
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So if he deserves zero credit, what GMs deserve credit for UFA signings? Because he had to do a hell of a lot more work. Sounds like he filmed a god damn Hollywood commercial.

Yeah he was out late night filming spots for it.

JT was essentially a Scientology member. He was brainwashed by a flashy video.
 

Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
13,366
4,013
Lou had no problem signing our guys to team friendly deals. He's also a Stanley Cup winner and a first place GM right now. After tonight there's a good chance were a wild card team. Ouch.
Marleau and Zaitsev were team friendly deals? Also the Isles are tied with the Leafs for the first time this season and you bring up the standings. Did you think the same when the Leafs were ahead?
 

DavePoulin4PM

2x NHL all star, Selke winner, NHL exec
Nov 6, 2017
1,570
2,229
Should he have though? It's nice the Islanders are doing well, do we think that's a team built for a cup or long term success?

No he shouldn’t have. Why would he try and field a competitive team? Shouldve tried to tank before the season even started. What was he thinking!?!?!?
 

AreBe

This is the Real Are Be and not a Burner account!
Apr 1, 2013
880
313
We hired hockey's version of Theo Epstein. Don't worry.
We got a stats geek technocrat as a GM, thank goodness!
Dubas knows how to do some Advanced Analytics/$ /Cap = what we are willing to pay a player, and he sees this clearly, his hockey vision is not blurry
Dubas is a sharp and we are lucky to have him - solid brain, not of any woodness
Dubas will not listen to the demands of the fans who want to turn the team into some kind of hockey slurry
Remember it is a long- term plan too, so we don't want to unload all the kids either, we want long term joy with some fullness.
 
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DarkKnight

Professional Amateur
Jan 17, 2017
31,321
47,715
The caveat to Nylander's camp getting such a great deal was that at least it was tradeable given the structure. Our inability to take advantage of the cap savings with the late holdout, while hurting our bottomline, also meant a lot of salary is already paid come July 1st next year. We failed to capture the salary cap savings, but at least a prospective suitor would now that the Leafs had paid a ton up front, real dollars very attractive. However, one starts to now wonder if this contract is attractive? I'm actually envisioning a Kessel scenario where we would have to retain some salary to get a decent return. Who the hell gives real quality back for this "elite" talent at this long term cap hit? Deal looks worse and worse each day imo.
 
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Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Leafs Home Board
The caveat to Nylander's camp getting such a great deal was that at least it was tradeable given the structure. Our inability to take advantage of the cap savings with the late holdout, while hurting our bottomline, also meant a lot of salary is already paid come July 1st next year. We failed to capture the salary cap savings, but at least a prospective suitor would now that the Leafs had paid a ton up front, real dollars very attractive. However, one starts to now wonder if this contract is attractive? I'm actually envisioning a Kessel scenario where we would have to retain some salary to get a decent return. Who the hell gives real quality back for this "elite" talent at this long term cap hit? Deal looks worse and worse each day imo.

If your GM creates a contract that makes trading it in the future an advantage to the organization thus making it a positive behind the signing, but then promises he doesn't plan on trading him essentially giving the player a verbal NTC, then that simply overlaps and then defeats the first part.

If Willy's goal was not to be traded and wanted to stay a Leaf long-term than it was in his interest to have a contract that makes it more difficult and less appetizing to deal. That is leverage for the GM to use in his contract position.. However not only did Willy get Dubas to agree to massive frontloaded/ bonus laden deal, he then got him to admit publicly he wouldn't trade him. Then it took to the 11th hour on the last day to even get this lopsided contract in Nylander's advantage competed.

Its things exactly like that, that do make one question the negotiating abilities and strategies of the GM and rightfully so. Not going to find many hockey knowledgeable people that believe Dubas didn't get schooled hard in this deal by a clever player agent to believe suddenly that things are going to be different with Auston and Mitch coming up.

In fact Dubas caving to Nylander has now set a bad precedence that when push comes to shove he will do the same for AM and MM and both their agents know that.
 
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LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
If your GM creates a contract that makes trading it in the future an advantage to the organization making it a positive behind the signing, but then promises he doesn't plan on trading him essentially giving the player a verbal NTC, then that simply overlaps and then defeats the first part.

If Willy's goal was not to be traded and wanted to stay a Leaf long-term than it was in his interest to have a contract that makes it more difficult and less appetizing to deal. That is leverage for the GM to use in his contract position.. However not only did Willy get Dubas to agree to massive frontloaded/ bonus laden deal, he then got him to admit publicly he wouldn't trade him. Then it took to the 11th hour on the last day to even get this lopsided contract in Nylander's advantage competed.

Its things exactly like that, that do make one question the negotiating abilities and strategies of the GM and rightfully so. Not going to find many hockey knowledgeable people that believe Dubas didn't get schooled hard in this deal by a clever player agent to believe suddenly that things are going to be different with Auston and Mitch coming up.

In fact Dubas caving to Nylander has now set a bad precedence that when push comes to shove he will do the same for AM and MM and both their agents know that.
Dubas gave him what he was worth. Why are people still disputing this?
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
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Should he have though? It's nice the Islanders are doing well, do we think that's a team built for a cup or long term success?

They are ahead of us in the standings. Why would they tank?

Lou took chicken you know what and made a tasty chicken salad.

Our guy apparently didn't write down the recipe for success before Lou left.
 
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