Do you think Vladimir Konstantinov was on his way to the Hall before the accident?

BenchBrawl

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He would have needed to continue being a top defender for a few years.His age was OK, as a defenseman you can excel in your 30s more easily than a forward.Also, he was playing on a good team, which is helpful to get in the Hall.
 
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BigBadBruins7708

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good player for sure, but I dont see a derailed HOF career there.

he was good defensively and chipped in some points on offense, but wasnt a top level offensive D and wasnt enough of a shut down D to overcome the lack of points.

I think a more modern equivalent of his style would be Seidenberg or Hjalmarsson
 

BenchBrawl

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You're right actually, he probably wouldn't get in.I blame Phil Housley for confusing me on what it takes.
 
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JackSlater

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I don't think so. I was a fan of Konstantinov but I find that he has become a bit overrated, probably due to how his career ended. The threshold for defencemen is generally pretty high. Konstantinov was not going to put up huge career numbers and Lidstrom was already better by the time Konstantinov's career ended, so I certainly don't see any Norris trophies. I also don't see him aging well. Physical but small defencemen aren't likely to have long careers. Basically, if Zubov can't get in, I don't see how Konstantinov would have.
 

tony d

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Probably not, unfortunate too as he had a good career and had an unfortunate career end but don't think he's a Hall of Famer.
 

Nick Hansen

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good player for sure, but I dont see a derailed HOF career there.

he was good defensively and chipped in some points on offense, but wasnt a top level offensive D and wasnt enough of a shut down D to overcome the lack of points.

I think a more modern equivalent of his style would be Seidenberg or Hjalmarsson

I get your point, sort of, but Seidenberg or Hjalmarsson is under-selling Konstantinov quite a bit. This guy got a substantial amount of Norris votes whilst battling with Lidstrom, Chelios, Bourque, Leetch, Coffey, Stevens and so on (some of them admittedly old, but look at the names...all time greats). I don't see Seidenberg or Hjalmarsson ever doing that.
 
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Theokritos

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It's hard to say with Konstantinov because it took him until 22 to really break out in the USSR, and after just two good years there, he went to the NHL where it took him another four years to get into the Norris mix. Then he was there for just two years before the car crash ended his career. That's not a huge body of relevant achievements respectively not a long time on a level relevant for a HHOF case. If he keeps playing on his 95-97 level for several years for the powerhouse Red Wings, then there is a debate.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Just to clarify something - the year he was 2nd in Norris voting, he just as easily could have been 5th. In fact, he was 5th in All-Star voting conducted by the exact same voting pool:

NORRIS: Brian Leetch 494 (42-8-3-1-0); Vladimir Konstantinov 178 (2-10-13-6-5); Sandis Ozolinsh 176 (2-12-9-8-3); Chris Chelios 172 (0-7-18-9-6); Scott Stevens 171 (7-8-4-7-4); Nicklas Lidstrom 60 (0-5-2-3-6); Darryl Sydor 45 (1-1-1-5-8); Ray Bourque 45 (0-2-2-4-9); Eric Desjardins 21 (0-1-0-3-5); Oleg Tverdovsky 9 (0-0-1-1-1); Bryan Berard 8 (0-0-0-2-2); Kevin Hatcher 6 (0-0-0-2-0); Sergei Zubov 5 (0-0-1-0-0); Robert Svehla 4 (0-0-0-1-1); Steve Duchesne 3 (0-0-0-1-0); Chris Pronger 3 (0-0-0-1-0); Derian Hatcher 2 (0-0-0-0-2); Sergei Gonchar 1 (0-0-0-0-1); Dmitri Mironov 1 (0-0-0-0-1)

DEFENSE: Brian Leetch 252 (49-2-1); Sandis Ozolinsh 166 (19-22-5); Chris Chelios 125 (10-21-12); Scott Stevens 102 (12-12-6); Vladimir Konstantinov 98 (8-17-7); Nicklas Lidstrom 49 (2-9-12); Ray Bourque 44 (1-8-15); Darryl Sydor 35 (2-5-10); Kevin Hatcher 15 (1-2-4); Eric Desjardins 14 (0-2-8); Derian Hatcher 10 (1-1-2); Steve Duchesne 9 (1-1-1); Oleg Tverdovsky 7 (0-1-4); Bryan Berard 6 (0-1-3); Chris Pronger 4 (0-1-1); Dmitri Mironov 4 (0-0-4); Robert Svehla 4 (0-0-4); Sylvain Lefebvre 3 (0-1-0); Sergei Zubov 2 (0-0-2); Paul Coffey 1 (0-0-1); Adam Foote 1 (0-0-1); Garry Galley 1 (0-0-1); Sergei Gonchar 1 (0-0-1); Mark Tinordi 1 (0-0-1)

1996-97 was Leetch easily #1, then Ozolinsh, Chelios, Stevens, and Konstantinov all in a close race for 2-5.

_______________

Konstantinov finished 4th in both the previous season (1995-96), and was an official 2nd team All-Star that season, NOT in 1996-97.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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i think the relevant factors are:

- how long can he keep his '96 and '97 level for? (obviously)
- does he have longevity beyond his peak/prime?
- does detroit win more/less cups with him?
- what does a hypothetically still peaking vlady look like if/when lidstrom starts to overshadow him?
 

danincanada

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Feb 11, 2008
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I loved the guy. Took no prisoners and didn't care who he was playing against. I'm not sure if he knew who some of the guys he tangled with early in his career were, but it wouldn't matter anyways.

In terms of Norris voting, I think his big +/- numbers, and the reputation that came with that, impressed a little more than his actual play. Obviously he was a really good defenseman but those big +/- numbers had a lot to do with playing with the Russian 5. If you look at the top five +/- players on the Red Wings in '95-96 and the it was the Russian 5. The next season they were 5 of the top 7 on the team so playing with a unit that possessed the puck so much helped. Not that they played together all the time.

I'm thinking it's a no for the HOF. Zubov not being in yet is a good comparison, and I agree that he may have broke down physically quicker than some other guys because he wasn't very big but played a very physical style. Coming to the NHL later might have offset that somewhat, but playing like that at that size is hard to maintain.
 
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vadim sharifijanov

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i guess the other way to look at this is, what would vlady have to do to make the hall if derian hatcher and adam foote didn't/haven't?

his peak is higher than both, but i don't know that it's as big as the norris voting suggests. still, would hatcher and foote be in with two years like vlady had in '96 and '97? what would they have to add beyond that?

this would set a longevity baseline for a hypothetically healthy konstantinov. then you would ask how likely it would be for him to stay that healthy.
 
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quoipourquoi

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i guess the other way to look at this is, what would vlady have to do to make the hall if derian hatcher and adam foote didn't/haven't?

his peak is higher than both, but i don't know that it's as big as the norris voting suggests. still, would hatcher and foote be in with two years like vlady had in '96 and '97? what would they have to add beyond that?

this would set a longevity baseline for a hypothetically healthy konstantinov. then you would ask how likely it would be for him to stay that healthy.

I don’t know that I’d assume the worst for a player that missed just 12 games in 6 years while playing a physical game. More than that, Konstantinov’s GA numbers through 77-82 games (especially in the final two seasons of his career) look like Foote’s and Hatcher’s GA numbers in their injury years in the Dead Puck Era.

Paired with Bourque in 2001, Colorado allowed 26 GA in 35 games with Foote on the ice at even-strength. The following year on the Jennings-winning Avalanche, it was 39 GA in 55 games. Hatcher’s best were 46 GA in 70 games on 167 GA Dallas in 1998 and 42 GA in 57 games on 184 GA Dallas in 2000. Compare to the 34 GA in 81 games and 39 GA in 77 games on Detroit teams that had worse goaltending and allowed more raw GA as the lower-scoring era hadn’t hit full swing.

It’s a major contributing factor to why he doubles their plus-minus despite having played just 6 seasons.

More than that, he was Detroit’s highly-publicized answer for Peter Forsberg in the playoffs in a way that Fedorov and Chelios wouldn’t be after he was gone. Of Forsberg’s 5 combined points in the 1996 and 1997 playoff series vs. Detroit, I believe more than half came when Crawford managed to get him on the ice away from Konstantinov. So with respect to Foote on Tkachuk in 2001, I think even the playoff narratives swing in Konstantinov’s favor.

But the timing of his best two years coming against 1996 Chelios, 1996 Bourque, and 1997 Leetch could have been better. There’s a lot more vulnerability after that, so if his final seasons weren’t a fluke and he doesn’t fall off a cliff, there are worse ways to spend your 30s than collecting games on Detroit from 1998-2008 like his replacement Chelios did.
 

Fantomas

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He sure as hell wasn't worse than Rod Langway. Another 3-4 good years and it would be hard to deny him a spot in the HOF.
 
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TheGoldenJet

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he was good defensively and chipped in some points on offense, but wasnt a top level offensive D and wasnt enough of a shut down D to overcome the lack of points.

He was good enough overall to be a top 10 defenceman in the NHL at his peak. Agree that it’s not a given that he makes the HOF if he played more years bough.
 

Filthy Dangles

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Zubov at his peak was probably in the top 3 or 4 defencemen in the world. Phenomenal player who was considered neck and neck with lidstrom in the 90s until Nick pulled away in the mid 2000s.

How does Zubov compare to someone like Drew Doughty?
 

Canadiens1958

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I loved the guy. Took no prisoners and didn't care who he was playing against. I'm not sure if he knew who some of the guys he tangled with early in his career were, but it wouldn't matter anyways.

In terms of Norris voting, I think his big +/- numbers, and the reputation that came with that, impressed a little more than his actual play. Obviously he was a really good defenseman but those big +/- numbers had a lot to do with playing with the Russian 5. If you look at the top five +/- players on the Red Wings in '95-96 and the it was the Russian 5. The next season they were 5 of the top 7 on the team so playing with a unit that possessed the puck so much helped. Not that they played together all the time.

I'm thinking it's a no for the HOF. Zubov not being in yet is a good comparison, and I agree that he may have broke down physically quicker than some other guys because he wasn't very big but played a very physical style. Coming to the NHL later might have offset that somewhat, but playing like that at that size is hard to maintain.


Chris Chelios was 1" taller and 1lb heavier than Konstantinov:

Vladimir Konstantinov Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Chris Chelios Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Doubt that such a minor difference would impact longevity given that both were RHS, somewhat scarcer in the 1990s.
 

Thenameless

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This one is hard to predict. Early on, Konstantinov was actually ahead of Lidstrom, but Lidstrom really developed and then aged well to boot.

They would have made a legendary defensive pairing. When I look at Keith and Seabrook, if Lidstrom is Keith, I believe that Konstantinov brought even more to the table than Seabrook. The synergy of their pairing might have been enough to get recognition for the Hall - if you can imagine Detroit being stronger than they already were, LOL. If Konstantinov anchors his own pairing apart from Lidstrom and does really well, then he might make an even stronger case for himself.

Still, he's not a high scorer even for a d-man, so it's a bit of an uphill battle (even though I like d-men like him, myself).
 
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