Do you think this team can score more under a new system?

[Frk It]

Datsyuk never played with Gus. You can look a year prior to that with those same two players. They were getting the best out of the two of them. Even when they were down, Abdelkader was performing well. Top nine wingers included Tatar, Nyquist, and Abdelkader, who's numbers ****ing dropped at insane rates with Blash coming in. Gus went from a 30 goal guy, had a career year with Leggy and Franzen as his centre to a single digit scorer.

You keep pointing out to Zetterberg and Datsyuk, which is fair, but Zetterberg has been broken for five years. Datsyuk played the same amount of games in 14/15 as he did in 15/16. Played more in 15/16 actually and had 16 less points.

Blash is a terrible coach. He needs to go. I realize these guys aren't great but I think we can get more out of them. Gustav Nyquist is 27 years old. He should currently be in his prime with his style. ****ing 4 goals.

I'd definitely like to see Nyquist and Tatar be more productive than they have been. Just look at my avatar if you have any doubts on that. But I don't think they forgot how to play hockey or anything. I think we get this team good again and all of a sudden like magic they look like good top 6 wingers once again. I'm much more concerned with a roster overhaul than a coaching change or a system change.

QFT

Tatar and Nyquist will only thrive when surrounded by better, more skilled, players. It wouldn't surprise me if they were to go play on a second line on one of the better teams that they would easily put up 60+ points. If you depend on them to drive play, you're kinda screwed. As fun as watching Tatar fire pucks into shin pads and Nyquist float around, reluctant to shoot is...

Yeah, totally agree.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I think we HAVE to play a more defensive structured system because we lack any real high end talent

the problem occurs when that system breaks down to which it often does because our defencemen are easily as a group bottom 3 in the world

we sure could score more goals right away with a better powerplay and better line combos and ice time allotment(consistent)

as for long term well that requires an significant enhancement of both high end skill and high end dmen

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

There's obviously something in between what we're currently doing and a run-and-gun system that abandons all defense. If anything, this team needs to tighten up defensively and learn how to defend against a cycle. That alone would help our overall game since it would mean we don't get stuck in the d-zone as much. We must be the easiest team in the league to cycle against, and that's not an element of the game that is really dependant on high-end skill. Our best players can't execute a cycle on home ice when they're out against other teams bottom 6 and bottom d-pairings, and complete scrubs can cycle for days against our top players. We don't have a ton of skill but our best players should not be so outmatched against the worst players on teams like Arizona.

If we are forced to defend the cycle it is already too late. We need to retrieve and move the puck out of the defensive zone before the opposing team establishes their cycle. Babcock and Holland have talked about this at length.

Our inability to cycle the puck in the offensive zone is a function of laziness. Cycling the puck requires that you move your feet when you don't have the puck, which is hard work (especially after you spend 30 seconds in the defensive zone trying to get the puck out). I agree though that simply moving the puck up and down along the boards without ever attacking the center of the ice is getting really old and is super easy to defend. Even a very basic cycle would be better than the status quo.

 

[benusmc]

So is it the players or the coaches? Or both?

 

[Frk It]

Players need to be coached to move their feet? Really?

I'm not in that "a coaching change will really change the fate of this team" camp...

But players need to be coached to do whatever they should be doing, that they're not. So yes, that would absolutely include things like this.

I agree though that simply moving the puck up and down along the boards without ever attacking the center of the ice is getting really old and is super easy to defend. Even a very basic cycle would be better than the status quo.

How many players do you think we have that excel at cycling the puck?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I'm not in that "a coaching change will really change the fate of this team" camp...

But players need to be coached to do whatever they should be doing, that they're not. So yes, that would absolutely include things like this.

There are certain things that you need to do to be successful in any system. Moving your feet is one of them. This is about as rudimentary as it gets to be honest. If our players haven't figured this out after a lifetime of hockey we are in for a long, long ugly stretch.

 

[Frk It]

There are certain things that you need to do to be successful in any system. Moving your feet is one of them. This is about as rudimentary as it gets to be honest. If our players haven't figured this out after a lifetime of hockey we are in for a long, long ugly stretch.

Sure, but don't you think players need to have even rudimentary things reinforced from time to time? I mean not everyone is is super self-aware and can just coach themselves.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I'm not in that "a coaching change will really change the fate of this team" camp...

But players need to be coached to do whatever they should be doing, that they're not. So yes, that would absolutely include things like this.



How many players do you think we have that excel at cycling the puck?

Good question that I don't have an answer for. It has been a long time since we have exceled at it (maybe because we have prioritized the positioning of the third forward?). I can think of 4-6 that should be pretty good at it. Almost everyone should be better at it as it isn't exactly a high order hockey skill. Then again, a lot of offensive hockey is about taking what you are given. All I know is that we need to attack the center of the ice more and create more space.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Sure, but don't you think players need to have even rudimentary things reinforced from time to time? I mean not everyone is is super self-aware and can just coach themselves.

True, and I am not saying that this is something that should never be mentioned, but if this is the focus of your NHL coaching, you are in a bad, bad spot. I always thought the back-to-basics/fundamental message was important when you are trying to do too much and need to simplify things.