Do you think Gretzky was right about Lemiuex/Yzerman

[Zaddik]

i thought they'd be ok. but now after the aftermath and reassessing the whole situation, they really did miss a 'legend' in their roster.

 

[mr gib]

I completely disagree. The Canadian team should have been full of hungry young players. We needed less old vets and more young players.

hungry young players - with mario and stevie y

 

[Phanuthier*]

Finland doesn't have a Steve Yzerman or Mario Lemieux, and they're doing ok. Heck, they don't even have Joe Sakic!

Sounds like Gretz is coming out with excuses.

 

[Lindros_for_rizzle_]

Pretty obviously they missed none of them. They only missed Lindros. He would also be able to contribute on the ice unlike those other two. And even more than Thornton, Sakic and the rest of the center-line. Theres no end to what Thorntons jaw and Lindros fist can achieve together.

 

[8snake]

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.

 

[The_Eck]

Canada will soon find out what Gretzky (on ice) and Mario meant to this country's success in international hockey. Their mystic will truly be missed, none of the upcoming Canadian superstars have that aura.

 

[mr gib]

Canada will soon find out what Gretzky (on ice) and Mario meant to this country's success in international hockey. Their mystic will truly be missed, none of the upcoming Canadian superstars have that aura.

wow - that brought a tear to my eye - usually your out bashing and wacking -

couldn't have said it better myself - rather eloquent

 

[mr gib]

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.

huh?

 

[pei fan]

Didn't read the thread but ,no Gretzky wasn't right. He's deflecting criticism for not taking the great young players Canada has NOW.Canada didn't need 2 more players past their prime. the

 

[Big Phil]

Not trying to be direspectful here, but personally I dont consider Mario a "leader". Never really have. Maybe his aura as a hall of fame, all time great was missed in the locker room, but as far as leadership qualities....I never thought he posessed an abundance of those to begin with.

Just the fact of everything he has gone through in is life instantly makes him respected and a leader. His leadership skills have always been underrated.

But as for Gretzky, we as Canadians are such puppets when it comes to him. I love Gretzky, but everything he says isnt right all the time - just because its him saying it. He picked a poor team. In '02 he picked a great team, all the best players. By '04 he picked a team that had a few question marks but still got lucky. Then he goes with the same team in '06 and they look slow even vs. the Finns on the big ice. They lacked speed, they lacked scoring, they were wrong, yes folks Gretzky was WRONG!

So lets not be a bunch of lap dogs and believe everything he says. If Gretzky is so smart my question is how come he apparently didnt know that his wife of 18 years was involved in a gambling ring? But he says he didnt and we all believe him. Just like when the teams were picked. I remember just before he was being very evasive in an interview when saying that "you cant have all centres" referring to Staal, Crosby and Spezza. i knew right away he was going to cave in and go with a dumber team. I said it back in December that those three should have been there and Draper, Doan and Bertuzzi shouldnt have been.

Just look at the team The Hockey News picked before the announcement. Ask me if they would lose to the Swiss team? Or even the Russians. I dont think they would. But throw Bertuzzi and McCabe on the team and you're guaranteed to have a few needless penalties.

 

[KrisKing*]

Did Canada lose because they didn't have enough goal scorers on the roster? No, they folded under the immense pressure in a spectacular way. Of course Gretzky was right about needing Yzerman or Lemieux. Call me crazy but I bet Gretzky knows more about what is needed to perform under incredible pressure than all you people.

 

[octopi]

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

Okay, lets look at the flipside. Russia also didn't have a "legend' captaining their team. I also don't think Alex Kovalev is a better leader than Joe Sakic....

(Oddly enought team Russia did worse in the 2002 Olympics with Larionov the legend captaining them than they did with Bure in '98.)

 

[KrisKing*]

There's more pressure on Canada to win than any other country.

 

[David]

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

I've always said that this team had too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

That was true with the players and that was also true with the coaches. Who was the real coach? Quinn or Hitchcock?

Then there are the players. Because most of the 2002 guys grew up watching Lemieux perform his wizardry on the ice as little boys, they all were in awe of him, giving him instant respect. And add to that Stevie Y's inspirational, self sacrificing performance and leadership, the team had no choice but to follow.

However, without these two, there was no clear cut leader...and everybody did their own thing. I've always said, as great a player Sakic is, he was no Stevie Y or Jean Beliveau.

Where Gretzky made his mistake was selecting an Oylimpic version of the pre-2005 NY Rangers. Lazy fat a$$es who were selfish and spoiled. It would have helped if Wayne had learned from Glen Sather's mistakes and took individuals who were willing to compete, instead of lazy, lard a$$es that he took.

It's actually really funny because Gretz says in one of his earlier bio-graphies that the problem with the 1981 Canada Cup team was that exactly what I said, that "there were too many chiefs and not enough Indians on that team!"

Where do you think I got that phrase from...Wayne Gretzky himself some 25 years ago!!!! Too bad he has such bad memory...and as I said before, it looks like he and 90% of Canada already had forgotten the lessons learned from Nagano as well.

Shame.

 

[Phanuthier*]

There's more pressure on Canada to win than any other country.

Yeah, I guess 2002 Canada didn't have any pressure. Or the 19 year olds who took part in Team Canada's WJC tournament last year. Or USA, Russia or any of those other hockey power houses.

Merely an excuse. You don't see Yzerman or Lemieux on Russia or Finland, and it looks like a kids Malkin and Ovechkin are having as much problem with the "pressure" as NHL vets Iginla, Sakic, Pronger, ect.

 

[KrisKing*]

Yeah, I guess 2002 Canada didn't have any pressure. Or the 19 year olds who took part in Team Canada's WJC tournament last year. Or USA, Russia or any of those other hockey power houses.

Merely an excuse. You don't see Yzerman or Lemieux on Russia or Finland, and it looks like a kids Malkin and Ovechkin are having as much problem with the "pressure" as NHL vets Iginla, Sakic, Pronger, ect.

Yeah there was pressure in 2002, but they also had Lemieux and Yzerman. That is the whole point. And no, USA and Russia don't have the same kind of pressure to win gold as Canada does, that's pretty much common knowledge.

And Gretzky isn't using that as an excuse for why they lost. He merely said they missed them, and he also said that wasn't an excuse for them not playing well. Also, that they would rethink the way they pick the team for next time.

 

[The_Eck]

Did Canada lose because they didn't have enough goal scorers on the roster? No, they folded under the immense pressure in a spectacular way. Of course Gretzky was right about needing Yzerman or Lemieux. Call me crazy but I bet Gretzky knows more about what is needed to perform under incredible pressure than all you people.

Not to insult hockey players or the sport in general, but playing a sport and being paid millions of dollars is not really pressure. Please don't use this term so loosely, because these professional athletes don't know what real pressure is.

So, I would say the average joe here on HFboards has experienced more 'real' pressure than Wayne has in his entire life. Stop putting these athletes on such a high pedestal. They played a sport for a living.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Not to insult hockey players or the sport in general, but playing a sport and being paid millions of dollars is not really pressure. Please don't use this term so loosely, because these professional athletes don't know what real pressure is.

So, I would say the average joe here on HFboards has experienced more 'real' pressure than Wayne has in his entire life. Stop putting these athletes on such a high pedestal. They played a sport for a living.

I wouldn't say they don't know how to deal with pressure, but tell Jarome Iginla he's doesn't know how to play in a pressure packed game. Or Joe Sakic. That's full BS.

The odd phenomena is that when any other worker, be it a highly rated investor, chief engineer, star lawyer or whathaveyou screw up, they are lamblasted with critisism (as expected). When its our beloved Team Canada? We coax them, give them a message, say thanks for trying and tell them its ok. I know they arn't at the Olympics as a profession or whathaveyou, but there is no way they should be excused from a lack luster effort.

 

[The_Eck]

I wouldn't say they don't know how to deal with pressure, but tell Jarome Iginla he's doesn't know how to play in a pressure packed game. Or Joe Sakic. That's full BS.

The odd phenomena is that when any other worker, be it a highly rated investor, chief engineer, star lawyer or whathaveyou screw up, they are lamblasted with critisism (as expected). When its our beloved Team Canada? We coax them, give them a message, say thanks for trying and tell them its ok. I know they arn't at the Olympics as a profession or whathaveyou, but there is no way they should be excused from a lack luster effort.

Buddy, they are playing a game. Stop using the word 'pressure' so loosely. All these players were pampered ever since they started playing hockey. They don't know what 'real' pressure is like the average joe living on a minimum wage. Please stop.

 

[David]

Not to insult hockey players or the sport in general, but playing a sport and being paid millions of dollars is not really pressure. Please don't use this term so loosely, because these professional athletes don't know what real pressure is.

So, I would say the average joe here on HFboards has experienced more 'real' pressure than Wayne has in his entire life. Stop putting these athletes on such a high pedestal. They played a sport for a living.

I disagree on this.

It is only a game but there is tremendous pressure...pressure from the entire country!!! If you screw up at work, then there is the obvious pressure but it is not televised all over the world for millions of people to jump all over you! And done at the professional stage like NHL, this is costing your team millions of dollars in revenue.

They have tremedous pressure that normal people do not have to ever deal with.

 

[The_Eck]

I disagree on this.

It is only a game but there is tremendous pressure...pressure from the entire country!!! If you screw up at work, then there is the obvious pressure but it is not televised all over the world for millions of people to jump all over you! And done at the professional stage like NHL, this is costing your team millions of dollars in revenue.

They have tremedous pressure that normal people do not have to ever deal with.

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day. If you call that pressure then I would love to experience this way of life.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Oh please give me a break!!! Do you actually believe they are losing any sleep after losing to the Russians?? Please!! They hop on a plane, then they go back to their mansions to make love to their trophy wives. The lost to the russians is completely forgotten the next day.

Real pressure, is somebody having to work 12 hour shifts and being worried that he has enough income to support his family day in and day out. Stop being so delusional.

I would hope so.

What exactly do you do that sets you on such a high level that you can look down on professional athletes and say they have no pressure in their jobs?

I'll agree that these guys should know how to deal with pressure, and at the level they are at, have handled in many different situations, but to suggest that they have it easy is stupid.

And I really don't think your idea of "real pressure" is accurately on the dot. Pressure comes with expectations, and if your a lowly 12-hour a day, barely minimum wage worker, you probably don't have that much expected of you. Outside of the entertainment business, most "real pressure" jobs are regulated by a standard and code of ethics.

 

[The_Eck]

I would hope so.

What exactly do you do that sets you on such a high level that you can look down on professional athletes and say they have no pressure in their jobs?

I'll agree that these guys should know how to deal with pressure, and at the level they are at, have handled in many different situations, but to suggest that they have it easy is stupid.

And I really don't think your idea of "real pressure" is accurately on the dot. Pressure comes with expectations, and if your a lowly 12-hour a day, barely minimum wage worker, you probably don't have that much expected of you. Outside of the entertainment business, most "real pressure" jobs are regulated by a standard and code of ethics.

Stop people are forced into situations in life where they have to deal with this 'real pressure'. And yes, professional athletes do have it easy, don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. I see montreal canadian players having a blast in downtown montreal after a devastasting lost. You think they actually feel tremendous pressure if they lose?? They are oblivious to the hardcore fans reaction.

 

[Resolute]

None of those players can hold a candle to Yzerman or Mario. Maybe Sakic.

Now maybe people will realize the 2 reasons why Canada has been considered the country to beat over the last 20 years. Gretzky and Lemieux.

Without them, we arent the best country anymore. We are the country with the most depth, which means nothing when you can only send 20some players.

Must have fluked out when we won all of those gold medals in the world Juniors in the 20-some years since Mario graduated into the pro ranks.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Stop people are forced into situations in life where they have to deal with this 'real pressure'. And yes, professional athletes do have it easy, don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. I see montreal canadian players having a blast in downtown montreal after a devastasting lost. You think they actually feel tremendous pressure if they lose?? They are oblivious to the hardcore fans reaction.

I've also seen Rhett Warraner rip Robyn Regehr a new ******* after a bad game in game 15 (?) of the regular season, and Iginla (wow, he cared once?) almost got into a fight with Regehr after a game (50?) when he made a bad play.

Maybe that particular player was a loser? Some players have pride, some don't give a damn. I could name numours Flames players (Fleury, Savard, Val Bure...) who cared little about whether the team won or lost, but how many points they got.

On a whole, many players have pride for what they do. Too bad this editions of Team Canada severly lacked it.