Do you think Gretzky was right about Lemiuex/Yzerman

[Randall Graves*]

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

Click to read more...

 

[WalterSobchak]

I think missing Chopper hurt too. I don't know why people over look his absense this time around.

 

[Crosbyfan]

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

Wayne is confused and babbling at straws.

 

[jd84]

Well, obviously Lemieux was missed b/c of his talent plus leadership abilities. He stunts on the ice could really help out the Canadians and motivate them to play better.

Same thing with yzerman. Good player and blah blah.


The thing is in the end the Canadians lost and the buts and ifs wont change it.

 

[Cawz]

I watched Gretzky's interview with Bob Costas last night and he said the Canadians really missed the leadership of those two guys. He said Sakic is a great captain but the players just felt so much pressure to win gold and how they needed Yzerman and Lemieux for their leadership and ability to handle the media.

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

Ya. I posted this in another thread:

And what would Mario do? High five them all when they come into the dressing room? Leadership comes from on the ice, not in the dressign room. With no Mario and no Stevie Y, the leadership was lacking. But its pretty obvious that theres a big gap in leadership after Gretzky, Yzerman and Lemiuex. Besides Sakic, who can be relied on?

Canada is lacking in elite high-end talent, coupled with leadership. Messier is gone, Wayne and Mario are gone, Stevie Y is gone. Now we have Sakic and... who? Heatley? Thornton? Iginla? None of these guys belong in the same category as the aforementioned. Maybe Heatley eventually, or maybe we just have to wait for Crosby.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Maybe he's right, afterall he's Wayne Gretzky.

maybe. maybe not. he was wrong about picking some players on this team though.

 

[Jazz]

maybe. maybe not. he was wrong about picking some players on this team though.

It can be argued that effective leadership might have overcome this...remember there was still a lot of talent on this roster...

But who knows....

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....it's over now, let's enjoy the rest of the tournament.

 

[Sens Rule]

I completely disagree. The Canadian team should have been full of hungry young players. We needed less old vets and more young players.

 

[Alberta Yote]

maybe. maybe not. he was wrong about picking some players on this team though.

I don't see the players that were picked as the problem, there was enough talent and proven scoring there to have a chance to win. If guys like Staal, Spezza, Crosy, Phaneuf, etc, didn't even exist this team would have been considered one of the favourites going itno the Games.

The problem is that the team didn't come together and almost everyone underachieved. That is a combination of coaching, systems put in place, line combos, and player motivation (both from within the players themselves and from coaches). This comes down to management and coaching yes. But not player selection.

 

[MOGiLNY]

It can be argued that effective leadership might have overcome this...remember there was still a lot of talent on this roster...

But who knows....

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....it's over now, let's enjoy the rest of the tournament.

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth

how much more leadership do you need?!

Canada-Russia was a game between 2 very strong teams and somebody had to lose, it's all it is. what happened in the preliminary games is irrelevant because when Lemieux and Yzerman were there in 2002, they lost to Sweden 5:2 and beat Germany 3:2 in a similar fashion as they beat the Czechs this year.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Ya. I posted this in another thread:

And what would Mario do? High five them all when they come into the dressing room? Leadership comes from on the ice, not in the dressign room. With no Mario and no Stevie Y, the leadership was lacking. But its pretty obvious that theres a big gap in leadership after Gretzky, Yzerman and Lemiuex. Besides Sakic, who can be relied on?

Canada is lacking in elite high-end talent, coupled with leadership. Messier is gone, Wayne and Mario are gone, Stevie Y is gone. Now we have Sakic and... who? Heatley? Thornton? Iginla? None of these guys belong in the same category as the aforementioned. Maybe Heatley eventually, or maybe we just have to wait for Crosby.

Well it can't be easy playing for Canada AFTER winning a gold medal the previous Olympics and basically having a whole country scrutinizing every single move. The first timers probably felt alot of pressure. Could this team have used a Staal or Crosby? Probably, but maybe Wayne is right. He knows all about the pressure of everyone watching your every move.

 

[Alberta Yote]

I completely disagree. The Canadian team should have been full of hungry young players. We needed less old vets and more young players.

Canada won going away in 2002 with every bit as much of a mix of veterans and young players. Why would anyone have expected that this year should be any different?

Actually, I'd like to see the average age of the team in '02 compared to this year.

 

[MOGiLNY]

The problem is that the team didn't come together and almost everyone underachieved. That is a combination of coaching, systems put in place, line combos, and player motivation (both from within the players themselves and from coaches). This comes down to management and coaching yes. But not player selection.

Fair enough. I just thought that taking Draper and Doan over Staal and Spezza was rather dumb, but I agree, as a whole this team was stacked even without those 2 guys and should've scored more.

All the things you mentioned though, line combos, systems and motivation can all be attributed to your first point which is coaching. And I know a lot of people hate on Quinn most of all, but this exact same coaching staff won the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup, so what changed this time??

 

[Alberta Yote]

Fair enough. I just thought that taking Draper and Doan over Staal and Spezza was rather dumb, but I agree, as a whole this team was stacked even without those 2 guys and should've scored more.

All the things you mentioned though, line combos, systems and motivation can all be attributed to your first point which is coaching. And I know a lot of people hate on Quinn most of all, but this exact same coaching staff won the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup, so what changed this time??

Not sure, maybe preparation or reaction to on-ice situations? We'll never know for sure. Quinn's record in the NHL seems to be on the decline as well.

 

[jd84]

And I know a lot of people hate on Quinn most of all, but this exact same coaching staff won the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup, so what changed this time??

Maybe there were other teams out there better and more hungrier?

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Wayne has to blame someone for his losses. He's perfect, after all.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Not sure, maybe preparation or reaction to on-ice situations? We'll never know for sure. Quinn's record in the NHL seems to be on the decline as well.

When Canada won in '02, people said that the team was so good that anybody could've coached it to a win or that it was all Martin and Hitchcock.

Now Quinn is taking a lot of flak for this loss. It's not fair to the old man..

 

[Hemsky4PM]

Uh...say Gretz, if Sakic was under too much pressure why didn't you have Shanahan and Kariya on the team instead of Bertuzzi, Draper or St. Louis? Gretzky is basically admitting he screwed up and didn't do enough to offset the loss of leadership that occured when Yzerman and Lemieux bowed out.

Isn't it interesting that Mario wanted Crosby to play in the Games but Gretz prefered Goontuzzi? Right from the summer camp Gretz said "Todd is going to be a huge part of this team". Well, he was right, he had an impact allright.

 

[Alberta Yote]

Wayne has to blame someone for his losses. He's perfect, after all.

Gretzky is not perfect, I think that much has become obvious lately. But he has come out, both before and since yesterday's game, and completely taken responsibility for the team's failures. Watch the interviews.

 

[Roo]

There is enough leadership on this team.

I think we really missed Neidermayer though.

 

[Alberta Yote]

When Canada won in '02, people said that the team was so good that anybody could've coached it to a win or that it was all Martin and Hitchcock.

Now Quinn is taking a lot of flak for this loss. It's not fair to the old man..

Gretzky, the rest of the management team, Quinn and his coaches, all of the players. That who has to share in this blame. It cannot be heaped on any one area.

 

[Cawz]

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth

how much more leadership do you need?!

Canada-Russia was a game between 2 very strong teams and somebody had to lose, it's all it is. what happened in the preliminary games is irrelevant because when Lemieux and Yzerman were there in 2002, they lost to Sweden 5:2 and beat Germany 3:2 in a similar fashion as they beat the Czechs this year.

None of those players can hold a candle to Yzerman or Mario. Maybe Sakic.

Now maybe people will realize the 2 reasons why Canada has been considered the country to beat over the last 20 years. Gretzky and Lemieux.

Without them, we arent the best country anymore. We are the country with the most depth, which means nothing when you can only send 20some players.

 

[Crosbyfan]

I just have a hard time believing that this team lacked leadership. I mean how many of Canada's players are captains,former captains or alternate captains on their NHL teams?

Blake
Foote
McCabe
Pronger
Redden
Iginla
Thornton
Sakic
Richards
Doan
Lecavalier
Nash
Smyth

how much more leadership do you need?!

Canada-Russia was a game between 2 very strong teams and somebody had to lose, it's all it is. what happened in the preliminary games is irrelevant because when Lemieux and Yzerman were there in 2002, they lost to Sweden 5:2 and beat Germany 3:2 in a similar fashion as they beat the Czechs this year.

Agree. What Gretzky is saying is a load of crap plus a slight on Sakic and an excuse for himself because he picked a team based on "chemistry" and size over young talent and speed and he feels the players he picked let him down when in fact many of them played as well as they were playing when he picked them especially considering the open ice.

 

[Alberta Yote]

Agree. What Gretzky is saying is a load of crap plus a slight on Sakic and an excuse for himself because he picked a team based on "chemistry" and size over young talent and speed and he feels the players he picked let him down when in fact many of them played as well as they were playing when he picked them especially considering the open ice.

Thornton, Heatley, Gagne, Nash, Smyth, Redden, McCabe, etc. etc. played as well as when they were picked? Huh?

 

[Legolas]

None of those players can hold a candle to Yzerman or Mario. Maybe Sakic.

Now maybe people will realize the 2 reasons why Canada has been considered the country to beat over the last 20 years. Gretzky and Lemieux.

Without them, we arent the best country anymore. We are the country with the most depth, which means nothing when you can only send 20some players.

Excellent point.