Do you think Glen Sather gets off too easily for the Gretzky trade?

[LeBlondeDemon10]

As far as I understand, this was Pocklington's deal. He needed the money. I really don't think Sather was happy to see Wayne go. They were on the verge of creating an unmatched dynasty.

 

[reckoning]

Am I the only person who thinks that the Gretzky trade wasn't all that bad of a trade to start, but turned out bad because of the Oilers awful scouting at the time? Gélinas had a decent long career, Carson almost scored 50 the first year in Edmonton, but the Oiler fans were too hard on him, and 3 first round draft picks. If the Oilers scouts did there job properly, they could of kept the train running into the 90's, but out of the 3 first rounders they aquired, in total they played a total of 4 games with the Oilers.

I'd strongly disagree with that. Carson's career was off to a great start, but he was hardly at the superstar level. To put it in perspective, his 107 points the year immediately before the trade were only 4 points more than Mike Bullard, with no intangibles like defensive play, leadership or toughness to go with it. I love Martin Gelinas, but as great a role player as he was, he couldn't replace Gretzky. That leaves the three 1st rounders. This board highly overvalues first round picks. Anybody knew that the Kings would be highly improved with Gretzky, so there weren't going to be any high picks in that group. You'd likely be looking at mid-to-late first round.

Considering that Gelinas had been a first round pick two months before the trade, it basically boiled down to Gretzky, Krushelnyski, and McSorley for Jimmy Carson and 4 first round picks. I don't see how that can possibly be viewed as a positive for Edmonton. Even if they had gotten Robitaille (who had a long productive career) instead of Carson, and the picks worked out a bit better, it would still be slanted in L.A.'s favor.

As a point of comparison, two years later St. Louis gave up 5 first-round picks to sign Scott Stevens. It was widely acknowledged that Stevens was worth it, and that the Blues (had Stevens stayed) would have got the better of the deal. So if Scott Stevens is better than 5 first-round picks, how many first-rounders was Wayne Gretzky worth?

 

[Stephen]

First off, we all know he was nothing more than a puppet for Peter Pocklington. Either that or Sather knew nothing about the game because a hockey man doesn't trade Wayne Gretzky in his prime plain and simple and the less you talk about what they got in return, the better. So we all know this was Pocklington's orders behind the scenes. But Sather was the GM of the Oilers at the time and you almost have to wonder why he would let his name be on this type of trade. For example, why not stand your ground more as the GM even if it is to the owner? Why not explain to him just how illogical it is to trade the best player in the NHL? Or why not just talk some common sense into him?

So discuss this, does Sather get away with more than he should with this trade? We all know his poor track record over the last decade in New York, so...........

The Oilers got hosed on the trade as a result of pro and amateur scouting. Was there not an offer from Detroit involving Yzerman? Imagine if Gretzky had landed the Lindros package, the Oilers would have won a ton more cups...

 

[reckoning]

L.A. simply didn't have any prospects at the level of a Peter Forsberg to give back to Edmonton. And the three first-rounders ended up being overall #18 ('89), #20 ('91), and #16 ('93). There were no top five or even top ten picks in there. The draft choices simply weren't that valuable. Blame poor scouting all you want, but there really wasn't much available with those picks, unless one starts assuming "what if they took so-and-so instead". That's not realistic. Even teams with superior scouting like Montreal in the 70s or Detroit in the 90s have selected the odd first-round lemon. I'd argue that with the '91 pick, Martin Rucinsky was about as good as Edmonton could've got with that choice.

The moment Pocklington sold Gretzky to the Kings, L.A. won the trade because there was nothing they had of similar value to trade back to Edmonton. The only thing that might have saved it would've been if the picks were high ones, but L.A.'s improvement in the standings killed any chance of that.

 

[Blades of Glory]

In ESPN's 30-for-30 (a great series altogether, I highly recommend it to fans of sports history) film on Gretzky, Sather says that he told Wayne that if he had the slightest doubt about the deal, if he wasn't sure about anything, Sather would put himself in front of the deal and block it by virtue of threatening to resign if it went through. Pocklington needed the money badly, but I honestly doubt that he was willing to lose Sather as collateral damage for dealing Gretzky. There is no way Pocklington could have faced the city of Edmonton without Sather's presence as a calming influence to the bloodthirsty fans.

The Gretzky film is actually very, very insightful. They have very detailed interviews with Pocklington, Sather, McNall, Gretzky, and all of the parties involved. Gretzky was still wavering about a trade even after spending a lot of time with McNall down in LA and when negotiations were happening throughout the late summer. Apparently, Pocklington and McNall were on the phone and Pocklington, not knowing he was on speaker phone and that Gretzky was in the room with McNall, began complaining about Gretzky's salary and desire to be the highest-paid player in the NHL. It was after hearing this, according to McNall, that Gretzky told him he wanted to be a King. He wanted to be a King. After that phone conversation, Gretzky was sure that he didn't want to play even one more game in Edmonton. Pocklington even told Wayne, multiple times, that he would nix the deal if Wayne didn't want it. But Wayne's mind was set.

In the film, Gretzky wonders about how many Cups the Oilers could have won if they had kept the team together. But he also says that he knew the trade was the right thing to do for something far more important than a single player; it was the right thing to do for the game itself. The NHL needed to market him with superstars from other sports. He did that famous commercial with Magic Johnson. And the "Bo knows" thing. It was a perfect storm for the league; that player, in that town.

 

[greatgazoo]

Blades of Glory is bang on!

And if anyone gets off "too easily" about the Gretzky trade it's Gretzky himself.

#99 had dollar signs in his eyes. He sold out. Made a tonne of money but gave up how many more Cups in Edmonton? 2 or 3 at least.

 

[golfortennis]

One thing to remember: Gretzky was going to be a free agent the next year. After years of being paid less than the Dave Taylors of the NHL(Dave Taylor!!) Gretzky wanted to be paid what he was worth. So from Pocklington's perspective, it was trade him now, or see him walk away as a free agent and get 5 first round picks(the free agency rules at the time), which *every team would have willingly done in a heartbeat.

This won't be a popular comment, since many people here are still caught up in the romanticized love of the game stuff and only consider it a player's "job" when they want to criticize him for doing something, but the Gretzky trade also did many things for the players.

This was an NHL that still didn't want players to discuss salary amongst themselves. That's why Gordie Howe could believe he was the highest paid player on the wings, when a teammate was making 30% more. Here you had the NHL that was about to sign a $51 million TV deal, and was also looking to expand by 7 teams over the following decade, at $50 million a pop.

Gretzky's trade put a market value out there. Why is someone willing to pay $15 million cash for a player when owners are complaining about salaries? Because owners have always played on the public's romanticized notion that it's about something other than money, and convinced them the players would be the ruination. People have not been able to see that, even though they are willing to pay $150 to see Gretzky or other NHL players, but not $5 to see AHL players, they seem to think all this money should flow to the owners, and not the players who are the reason they pay for the ticket in the first place.

Gretzky's trade made life a lot better for players as well long term.

 

[Ogopogo*]

This deal was completely and totally a cash grab, Sather really had nothing to do with it.

Anyone who thinks it was a good deal for the Oil is nuts. You never win a deal when you receive $15 million in cash. If anything, Sather probably convinced Pocklington to ask for the draft picks.