Do you think Canada were 'Bad Boys' in Canada vs USSR Summit Series during 1970's?

[blogofmike]

Meh. It was 1970s hockey. I'm sure they were bad guys if someone wanted the Soviets to win.

In which case I'm equally sure that those same someones would find it perfectly acceptable for Boris Mikhailov to kick his skate blade through Gary Bergman's shin pads and drawing blood.

 

[frisco]

Canada were definitely the bad boys from a media standpoint. Canada was more physical with the body all over the ice. I'd say the Russians, as they couldn't compete on a size level, used a lot of subtle stickwork (more acceptable in Europe) and such.

My Best-Carey

 

[Hanji]

The soviets would skate behind you spearing you behind the kneecaps ALL GAME back then. It just wasn't as visible and a thunderous headshot.

Can this be validated beyond what the Canadians players said? Perhaps I'm missing something but other than a handful of instances I'm not seeing any repeated spearing or slashing from the Soviets on video. It's not like you can fool a camera.

 

[Iapyi]

Absolutely not.

Canada played a rough and tumble in your face game.

USSR played a slimy backstabbing cheap shot dirty tactic blatant cheating referees and off-ice evil crap loser style of game that thought it was acceptable for Boris Mikhailov to kick his skate blade through Gary Bergman's shin pads and drawing blood cowardly attack.

 

[jcs0218]

Do you think Canada were 'Bad Boys' in Canada vs USSR Summit Series during 1970's?

Canada played very physical, dirty & often tried to injury players like Kharlamov, while Soviets just tried to win while playing more finesse & possession based hockey.

1972 Canada vs USSR Series (Bobby Clarke admits he intentionally injured Kharlamov & calls it 'part of the game'

Bobby Clarke intentionally slashes Valeri Kharlamov's ankle during 1972 Summit Series

And the best one:



With modern rules the USSR would win the majority of best on best matches against Canada and not just around half.

I wasn't alive to watch Bobby Clarke play in the 1970s.

But my Father has always told me that Bobby Clarke was the dirtiest player to ever play hockey.

 

[jj cale]

Just two different approaches to the game. Canadians believed the game was supposed to be played not only with skill but also rough and with passion.

And when you are the originators of the game you don't need to make excuses for how it developed there or how you play it.

It was the greatest hockey series of all time, I think that's enough no matter who you cheered for and what style you prefer.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Canada really, really wanted to win and the way they played was pretty much the only way they could have won that series.

 

[BadgerBruce]

8 consecutive hockey games against the same previously unknown opponent, with or without a Cold War backdrop, will not remain tame.

My suspicion is that an 8 game series between the USSR and the CSSR, two opponents that knew each other very well, would have been even more violent than the Summit series, given the events of 1968 and the undeniable hatred between those two countries.

Anyway, Canada needed to win games 6-8 in Moscow to take the series, so I really don’t see why anyone is surprised that the clips of extreme violence aren’t from the first 5 games of the series. Surely, posters on the history board have watched enough hockey to know how intensity and rancour builds over a best-of-seven Stanley Cup series. When a team finds its back against the wall and one more loss ends the war, every shift is an emotionally charged battle to survive and live to fight another day.

Clarke took out Kharlamov in Game 6. Mikhailov tried to take out Bergman in Game 7. Parise threatened referee Kompalla in Game 8. You can’t find anything comparable in the first half of the series. That’s how series hockey works — and it’s also why we love it. Each game is more intense than the last. Remember, the players weren’t laidback dude surfers having a good time riding the waves on a Saturday afternoon — they were amongst the finest hockey players in the world competing balls-to-the-wall for their respective nations in one of the most inherently rugged sports on the face of the earth. Did they become like animals protecting their young? Yup. Personal and national pride will do that.

Sure, the game has profoundly changed since 1972. But there isn’t a pro hockey coach today who wouldn’t use ANY tactic he could get away with if doing so meant winning. That hasn’t changed. And the day it does change is the day I will stop watching and caring.

 

[Overrated]

8 consecutive hockey games against the same previously unknown opponent, with or without a Cold War backdrop, will not remain tame.

My suspicion is that an 8 game series between the USSR and the CSSR, two opponents that knew each other very well, would have been even more violent than the Summit series, given the events of 1968 and the undeniable hatred between those two countries.

Anyway, Canada needed to win games 6-8 in Moscow to take the series, so I really don’t see why anyone is surprised that the clips of extreme violence aren’t from the first 5 games of the series. Surely, posters on the history board have watched enough hockey to know how intensity and rancour builds over a best-of-seven Stanley Cup series. When a team finds its back against the wall and one more loss ends the war, every shift is an emotionally charged battle to survive and live to fight another day.

Clarke took out Kharlamov in Game 6. Mikhailov tried to take out Bergman in Game 7. Parise threatened referee Kompalla in Game 8. You can’t find anything comparable in the first half of the series. That’s how series hockey works — and it’s also why we love it. Each game is more intense than the last. Remember, the players weren’t laidback dude surfers having a good time riding the waves on a Saturday afternoon — they were amongst the finest hockey players in the world competing balls-to-the-wall for their respective nations in one of the most inherently rugged sports on the face of the earth. Did they become like animals protecting their young? Yup. Personal and national pride will do that.

Sure, the game has profoundly changed since 1972. But there isn’t a pro hockey coach today who wouldn’t use ANY tactic he could get away with if doing so meant winning. That hasn’t changed. And the day it does change is the day I will stop watching and caring.

The Canadians were violent towards everyone including the Swedes who were not "communists" then played victim:
The year Canada was thrown to the wolves

>they threw us to the wolves
>Team Canada bullies and tries to intimidate everyone on the ice

 

[VanIslander]

In the preO6 era guys like Eddie Shore and Sprague Cleghorn ended careers and killed (yes), and THAT was milder than the earliest era of Stanley Cup era, the quarter century before the NHL.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

In the preO6 era guys like Eddie Shore and Sprague Cleghorn ended careers and killed (yes), and THAT was milder than the earliest era of Stanley Cup era, the quarter century before the NHL.

In Roman gladiator days, contestants were regularly killed during the competition.

What does either have to do with the 1970s Canadian team?

 

[VanIslander]

In Roman gladiator days, contestants were regularly killed during the competition.

What does either have to do with the 1970s Canadian team?

I have been saying for over a decade many think anything before Gordie Howe is "ancient" history. Thank you for posting a prime example.

Let's let others decide the merit of our claims.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I have been saying for over a decade many think anything before Gordie Howe is "ancient" history. Thank you for posting a prime example.

Happy to provide an example of actual ancient history.

Let's let others decide the merit of our claims.

It's not your job to decide what's off topic.

 

[BadgerBruce]

The Canadians were violent towards everyone including the Swedes who were not "communists" then played victim:
The year Canada was thrown to the wolves

>they threw us to the wolves
>Team Canada bullies and tries to intimidate everyone on the ice

Fair enough — Canada played a violent game at that time.

But violence between the Soviets and their Eastern Bloc opponents was also commonplace.

For example, Mark Howe, who played for Team USA in the ‘72 Sapporo Olympics, watched the entire semi final game between Czechoslovakia and the Soviets, and years later said, “To this day, I’ve never seen a hockey game more brutal than that. The Czech goalie must have broken five sticks over Russian players.” At the Izvestia tournament that same year, the two clubs had a bench-clearing brawl.
Ion Tiriac, better known as a professional tennis player, was also a member of the Romanian national hockey team from the age of 15. Tiriac claims that in one particularly brutal game, Soviet players went after him until he broke his stick over his knee, wielded the broken ends like spears, and effectively fought off the attackers.

Different place, different time.

 

[Overrated]

Fair enough — Canada played a violent game at that time.

But violence between the Soviets and their Eastern Bloc opponents was also commonplace.

For example, Mark Howe, who played for Team USA in the ‘72 Sapporo Olympics, watched the entire semi final game between Czechoslovakia and the Soviets, and years later said, “To this day, I’ve never seen a hockey game more brutal than that. The Czech goalie must have broken five sticks over Russian players.” At the Izvestia tournament that same year, the two clubs had a bench-clearing brawl.
Ion Tiriac, better known as a professional tennis player, was also a member of the Romanian national hockey team from the age of 15. Tiriac claims that in one particularly brutal game, Soviet players went after him until he broke his stick over his knee, wielded the broken ends like spears, and effectively fought off the attackers.

Different place, different time.

I might be remembering it wrong but I don't recall the match as something I would call extremely brutal. I know Mikhailov was a dirty player and that Holecek would often hit him since Mikhailov would foul the Czech goaltender. But maybe I might be remembering the game from Sapporo wrong saw it a long time ago.

 

[BadgerBruce]

I might be remembering it wrong but I don't recall the match as something I would call extremely brutal. I know Mikhailov was a dirty player and that Holecek would often hit him since Mikhailov would foul the Czech goaltender. But maybe I might be remembering the game from Sapporo wrong saw it a long time ago.

I think the larger point here is that hockey players are not diplomats. When nations try to use hockey players to achieve political ends, expect bad things to happen on the ice. During the Cold War era, very, very bad things.

As an aside, there’s a reasonable amount of scholarship available on the CSSR/USSR wars on ice. This YouTube posted video offers a decent jumping off point:

https://youtu.be/SzkWyE2YXSo

 

[Hanji]

I might be remembering it wrong but I don't recall the match as something I would call extremely brutal. I know Mikhailov was a dirty player and that Holecek would often hit him since Mikhailov would foul the Czech goaltender. But maybe I might be remembering the game from Sapporo wrong saw it a long time ago.

I think the larger point here is that hockey players are not diplomats. When nations try to use hockey players to achieve political ends, expect bad things to happen on the ice. During the Cold War era, very, very bad things.

As an aside, there’s a reasonable amount of scholarship available on the CSSR/USSR wars on ice. This YouTube posted video offers a decent jumping off point:

https://youtu.be/SzkWyE2YXSo

Here's that 1972 olympic game. There's some stickwork but it's not an overly dirty game. Certainly not by NHL standards. As such I have no idea what Howe was talking about.



When things get heated and emotional, especially politically, I think there's a strong propensity to demonize the opponent. There's also a gamesmanship in portraying yourself as the victimized good guy. All sides have done this.

This has been brought up in similar threads but a good example is the Canada v Sweden series. Sterner's infamous spear on Cashman never actually occurred. It was made up. Fabricated. And to this day guys like Esposito still do the same song and dance show in Summit Series documentaries and whatnot.
Summit Series '72, Swedish Sideshow

Like I said, there's a gamesmanship to it. That's why I always trust video. What's not on video I look at skeptically.

 

[MXD]

That feels like a very childish issue to me.

 

[VMBM]

Clarke took out Kharlamov in Game 6. Mikhailov tried to take out Bergman in Game 7. Parise threatened referee Kompalla in Game 8. You can’t find anything comparable in the first half of the series. That’s how series hockey works — and it’s also why we love it. Each game is more intense than the last. Remember, the players weren’t laidback dude surfers having a good time riding the waves on a Saturday afternoon — they were amongst the finest hockey players in the world competing balls-to-the-wall for their respective nations in one of the most inherently rugged sports on the face of the earth. Did they become like animals protecting their young? Yup. Personal and national pride will do that.

The Soviet bench, a discussion during game 7, coach Bobrov to Mikhailov: "Boris, that Gary Bergman is killing us, take him out." "Harasho"

 

[Hanji]

The Soviet bench, a discussion during game 7, coach Bobrov to Mikhailov: "Boris, that Gary Bergman is killing us, take him out." "Harasho"

Is there documented evidence that Mikhailov actually kicked Bergman? We all know the story, but I have yet to see any actual footage or photographs of the incident. Surely if Bergman's shin pads were dripping in blood it would be an eye-catching photographic moment of the series; yet there doesn't appear to be anything other than accusations.
Could this be another fabricated incident like Sterner's spear on Cashman that has made it into the history books? Has Mikhailov ever commented on it?

 

[Overrated]

Is there documented evidence that Mikhailov actually kicked Bergman? We all know the story, but I have yet to see any actual footage or photographs of the incident. Surely if Bergman's shin pads were dripping in blood it would be an eye-catching photographic moment of the series; yet there doesn't appear to be anything other than accusations.
Could this be another fabricated incident like Sterner's spear on Cashman that has made it into the history books? Has Mikhailov ever commented on it?

Holecek said Mikhailov would often kick him so I wouldn't be surprised but it was likely comparable to any other foul.

 

[VMBM]

Is there documented evidence that Mikhailov actually kicked Bergman? We all know the story, but I have yet to see any actual footage or photographs of the incident. Surely if Bergman's shin pads were dripping in blood it would be an eye-catching photographic moment of the series; yet there doesn't appear to be anything other than accusations.
Could this be another fabricated incident like Sterner's spear on Cashman that has made it into the history books? Has Mikhailov ever commented on it?

It certainly is very hard to detect kicking from the official footage; it's basically just two guys on the boards wrestling for the puck, and then getting mad at each other and trying to throw a meaningful punch, without much success and with very little room:


A long time ago, I remember asking the same question here, and I think a poster replied that there is some 'alternative footage' where you can see it (clearly?), but I've never witnessed it. IIRC, it was a respected poster (but Canadian, of course), so I took his word for it back then...

In any case, even if it did happen, imo it's a poor retort to the Clarke/Kharlamov incident; the Canadians took out the USSR's best player. The Soviets did not take out Canada's best player. Simple as that.

 

[Theokritos]

It certainly is very hard to detect kicking from the official footage; it's basically just two guys on the boards wrestling for the puck, and then getting mad at each other and trying to throw a meaningful punch, without much success and with very little room:


A long time ago, I remember asking the same question here, and I think a poster replied that there is some 'alternative footage' where you can see it (clearly?), but I've never witnessed it. IIRC, it was a respected poster (but Canadian, of course), so I took his word for it back then...

I guess that's the post you have in mind:

Hard enough to believe, I couldn't find it on Youtube, not the angle I've seen before. The angle I saw before was in the video "Summit On Ice". It shows a close up of Mikhailov kicking him. Yeah, he kicks him for sure and it even shows Mikhailov apologizing in the video during an interview.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I have been saying for over a decade many think anything before Gordie Howe is "ancient" history. Thank you for posting a prime example.

Let's let others decide the merit of our claims.

Howe played when Roman gladiators was still a thing. He played that long.

 

[VanIslander]

Howe played when Roman gladiators was still a thing. He played that long.

The year of Gordie Howe's ROOKIE NHL debut!

• My father was 15.
• It was after WWII.
• Babe Ruth was over 50 years old and retired for over a decade.
• It was the year after Alfred Hitchcock's 3rd best director Oscar nomination.