Do you see Kucherov having an argument for best Russian player of all time?

[Lua]

OV has that rare, unquantifiable Superman quality and the burden that comes with it that Kucherov has never had to shoulder. It might not be fair because Kuch didn’t build the team around him, but there’s still something to be said for being THE guy in town. I’d bet that most of Ovechkin’s Caps teams throughout his career wouldn’t have made the playoffs were he sidelined for a whole season, and if they did they would do it scratching and crawling.

 

[solidmotion]

kucherov is putting together an all-time great playoff resume—closer to sakic or crosby than ovechkin—and already has a very high regular season peak. all he's missing is a few prime seasons at the same level or close to it. another hart and ross plus a smythe this year and he is very much in the conversation. he will have done it all much more quietly than ovechkin or malkin or bure or fedorov but at some point the results speak for themselves.

 

[amnesiac]

could he? sure. Will never catch Ovi in goals but points is possible. A couple more Harts, a Conn Smythe, another Cup and hes up there for sure.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

kucherov is putting together an all-time great playoff resume—closer to sakic or crosby than ovechkin—and already has a very high regular season peak. all he's missing is a few prime seasons at the same level or close to it. another hart and ross plus a smythe this year and he is very much in the conversation. he will have done it all much more quietly than ovechkin or malkin or bure or fedorov but at some point the results speak for themselves.

If by "few prime seasons" you mean a decade then yeah, that's "all" he's missing. OV is a 6x lindsay finalist, 5x hart finalist. Kucherov 1x each. 12x AST vs 4x (8-2 1st AST). OV has been putting up elite seasons for 15 years. Kucherov has had 4 elite seasons but he's already 28. OV's peak season is better and their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th best seasons all favour OV (and it's not close at all). Another hart and ross still isn't getting Kucherov anywhere close to OV.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Maybe greatest Russian NHL player if Ovi didn’t exist. But some of the guys on that USSR team he has no chance of catching imo.

 

[snipes]

Maybe greatest Russian NHL player if Ovi didn’t exist. But some of the guys on that USSR team he has no chance of catching imo.

Kharlamov, Makarov, Fetisov, and Tretiak from the Soviet era teams are comfortably ahead.

Then you also have guys like Yakushev, Petrov, and Mikhailov as well who were pretty incredible and I’m not sure he’s ahead of those guys either if we’re talking historical place he’ll need to pass those guys first in a definitive way.

He’s probably pretty close or slightly ahead of the second group, but not the first group.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

For Russians who only played in the NHL, I see nor eason why he can't surpass Malkin for #2 behind Ovechkin.

Malkin is 34 years old and a few years past his prime, and has a better career points-per-game than Kucherov, who is 28 and should be far ahead by now if he were truly Malkin’s equal.

How will Kucherov pass him again?

 

[cave troll]

Well, he is still far below famous USSR stars and all of them were mentioned here so I'm gonna repeat names.
He is and will be below Ovie and Malkin who themselves are below big USSR names.

 

[Primary Assist]

I'd say we can make an argument that he's just about tied with Geno as the best Russian playmaker to have played in the NHL during his prime, but I don't think we can say that he's definitively better than Ovechkin or Fedorov, and I still think I'd take Geno and Bure over Kuch.

That's not to diminish how incredible of a hockey player Kucherov is, he just faces some of the best players of all time as his competition.

 

[Hockeyholic]

My worry is his injuries. Like Malkin, injuries just seem to follow him.

 

[GTA]

Soviet teams had a winning record against NHL sides back when Makarov and others played, I suppose their game was tailored enough.

Ovi isn't best russian player. That's Kharlamov & Makarov. But they never played in NHL. In Makarov's case he entered the league already way past his prime.

how can you say this when they played their primes in inferior leagues? I’m sure if Kucherov played in the AHL throughout his career, he would look even more spectacular by comparison.

 

[cave troll]

You really think that USSR had a low tier league compared to NHL in those times?
Then in 1981 USSR team from that league comes to Canada and trashes Canada 8-1 at Canada's home ice.
So let me write you down some names who played for Canada: Gretzky, Bossy, Lafleur, Dionne, Borque, Coffey, Robinson, Gainey...
Number of USSR players in NHL? 0.

6 years later, the biggest finals in history of hockey. Canada wins 2 games out of 3 with 2 OT games and 3rd won 6-5.
And again, Canada played with the best they had.
Number of USSR players in NHL? 0.

 

[Coffey]

Ovie was head to head with Crosby and ended up with an impressive trophy cabinet.
Kuch is head to head with McDavid, let's see how he does.

I doubt it though, since he only started to be good at age 24.

 

[User9992]

how can you say this when they played their primes in inferior leagues? I’m sure if Kucherov played in the AHL throughout his career, he would look even more spectacular by comparison.

LOL. Soviet teams were torching Canadian and American teams in 70's and 80's. 80's Oilers had a negative record vs Soviet teams like CSKA and Dinamo Moscow.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

You really think that USSR had a low tier league compared to NHL in those times?
Then in 1981 USSR team from that league comes to Canada and trashes Canada 8-1 at Canada's home ice.
So let me write you down some names who played for Canada: Gretzky, Bossy, Lafleur, Dionne, Borque, Coffey, Robinson, Gainey...
Number of USSR players in NHL? 0.

6 years later, the biggest finals in history of hockey. Canada wins 2 games out of 3 with 2 OT games and 3rd won 6-5.
And again, Canada played with the best they had.
Number of USSR players in NHL? 0.

Soviets lived, trained and played together all year. Those Canadian players had like a 2 week training camp together. Kind of an important point.

 

[tapi]

He overtakes everyone else except for Ovi. Then again, he is the superior player if we consider the full game. It is a hard one, but I think Kuch takes it if he can do 2-3 more elite (hart trophy contention) seasons.

 

[thadd]

No.
Not by a long shot.
We need to find some 70+ year old Russians who've followed hockey closely to answer this, because they had the most exposure to the old Soviet teams.

• Kucherov has not surpassed Ovechkin or Malkin.
• I'm not sure whether I take Kucherov over Datsuk. His defensive game and giveaway:takeaway ratio was insane.
• Watched me a lot of Federov in the 90's. No way Kucherov is better than Federov. Dude could play any role at any position with the exception of goaltender and look like a superstar doing it.
• Anyone who watched Molgilny play multiple games before he became he a head case would take peak Molgilny over Kucherov. If you actually went to the game and watched him, that was insane. He get Gretzky like vision when it came to positioning. Whenever he didn't have the puck it was very interesting to watch where he'd go and what he'd do when on either offense or defense. He was brilliant.

Then there's guys I can't really say for sure because I was too young to remember the 80's and I missed the 90's.

• Valeri Kharlamov
  
• Vaicheslav Fetisov (Was in the twilight of his career when he came to the North America.)
• Vladimir Krutov
  
• Alexander Maltsev
• Igor Larionov (Came to North America when he was 30)
  
• Vladislav Tretiak

I'm probably forgetting some names, but those are the ones that stand out.

 

[Sweetpotato]

If he started piling up awards I'd say maybe, but it's hard to put him in that category. With McDavid, Bedard, Michkov, Wright, Matthews, MacKinnon etc in the league or entering it I highly doubt he picks up more individual awards.

 

[jaric1862]

Things would have to go perfectly, meaning multiple Stanley Cups, multiple Hart Trophies and a conn smythe or two. He'd also need to keep producing at the rate he is well into his thirties.

I wouldn't say it impossible but unlikely

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

As others mentioned, there is no way he catches up to what Ovechkin accomplished. This is the difference between a superstar and a true generational player.

 

[thadd]

If he started piling up awards I'd say maybe, but it's hard to put him in that category. With McDavid, Bedard, Michkov, Wright, Matthews, MacKinnon etc in the league or entering it I highly doubt he picks up more individual awards.

Literally only one of those players you named are Russian.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Literally only one of those players you named are Russian.

I meant for the rest of his career he likely has no chance at individual hardware with all the young talent I listed coming into the league or already in the league.

 

[thadd]

I meant for the rest of his career he likely has no chance at individual hardware with all the young talent I listed coming into the league or already in the league.

We're comparing him to other Russians. Great deal of the best Russians of all time never even played in the NHL.

 

[Habano]

No because Ovi will be the best Russian player for a long time

 

[North Cole]

We're comparing him to other Russians. Great deal of the best Russians of all time never even played in the NHL.

So does he need to leave the NHL in order to be better than them? The point is his legacy most likely stops growing if he doesn't win anything else in the NHL individually, unless he starts winning a bunch more cups. Other Soviets having been elsewhere doesn't have anything to do with their point.