Do you miss the psychopaths in the NHL?

Rogue Winger

Registered User
Mar 10, 2018
102
64
Since the OP mentioned Marty McSorley, this is an interesting interview.



I like that interview because McSorley talks not only about the fighting, but how he is bluntly unapologetic about the occasional goonery and dirty cheap shot. That kind of violence could sometimes benefit the team if used as a retaliation or intimidation.

Even after that totally unnecessary and dumb/careless Brashear-incident, I would not classify McSorley as a "psychopath" (career wise, Marty was a decent skilled player, who just took his enforcer role very seriously) but I guess some disagree.
 

adsfan

#164303
May 31, 2008
12,621
3,665
Milwaukee
Absolutely, give me a Link Gaetz over a bland 4th liner any day of the week.

"The Missing Link" had over 300 PIMs in Kalamazoo (in 61 games) and in San Jose (in 48 games) in different pro seasons.

Another IHL goon was Flint General Doug Kerslake, who was banned from the IHL for a year and the Southern League IIRC (shades of Slap Shot). I believe that Kerslake fought with a security guard in the penalty box in the SHL.

Kerslake triggered a 45 minute bench clearing brawl against the Dayton Gems by hitting their defenseman, Lorne Weighill, in the helmet (forehead) with a high stick and knocking him out. The Gems were out manned 6 to 5 and Flint General Head Coach Ken Hodge opened the door to the ice and ordered his players off the bench. The Dayton bench came out to greet them. Hodge was knocked out on the Flint bench by the Gems trainer who was an ex-Golden Gloves champion. The only people left on the Dayton bench were their Coach and back up goalie. Hodge was out of the IHL after the 1972-73 season.

No, we don't need any more "people" like Gaetz or Hodge or Kerslake in pro hockey!
 

Sheppy

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
55,686
57,315
The Arctic
"The Missing Link" had over 300 PIMs in Kalamazoo (in 61 games) and in San Jose (in 48 games) in different pro seasons.

Another IHL goon was Flint General Doug Kerslake, who was banned from the IHL for a year and the Southern League IIRC (shades of Slap Shot). I believe that Kerslake fought with a security guard in the penalty box in the SHL.

Kerslake triggered a 45 minute bench clearing brawl against the Dayton Gems by hitting their defenseman, Lorne Weighill, in the helmet (forehead) with a high stick and knocking him out. The Gems were out manned 6 to 5 and Flint General Head Coach Ken Hodge opened the door to the ice and ordered his players off the bench. The Dayton bench came out to greet them. Hodge was knocked out on the Flint bench by the Gems trainer who was an ex-Golden Gloves champion. The only people left on the Dayton bench were their Coach and back up goalie. Hodge was out of the IHL after the 1972-73 season.

No, we don't need any more "people" like Gaetz or Hodge or Kerslake in pro hockey!
Again, give me Gaetz over a bland 4th line guy who collects a 4-5-9 stat line in 70+ games
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
19,110
15,573
Tokyo, Japan
Since the OP mentioned Marty McSorley, this is an interesting interview.



I like that interview because McSorley talks not only about the fighting, but how he is bluntly unapologetic about the occasional goonery and dirty cheap shot. That kind of violence could sometimes benefit the team if used as a retaliation or intimidation.

Even after that totally unnecessary and dumb/careless Brashear-incident, I would not classify McSorley as a "psychopath" (career wise, Marty was a decent skilled player, who just took his enforcer role very seriously) but I guess some disagree.

McSorley's comments here will be incomprehensible to today's young'uns, but of course back in the late-80s it was still the Wild West in terms of refereeing and League suspensions/penalties.

In retrospect, it's now clear that the NHL was going through a change from around the late-70s through the mid-90s when salaries were rising for stars, and the distance between superstars and grunts was greater than ever, and yet the level of accountability from referees and League officials was still the same as in the 1950s. In other words, it was old-school officiating with modern-era sports' stars, and the result was that players like McSorely were essential for teams.

In his own unique way, McSorely comments do make a kind of sense. He's saying that, in that era, it was wrong when a borderline NHL-er was taking shots at a Gretzky or whomever, and, since the NHL didn't do anything to prevent that, players like McSorley had to.

That said, because he was forced by job-duty to play on that edge all the time, McSorley did cross the line a few too many times and contributed to the League's image problems in that era. (I personally don't think the Brashear thing was a big deal; McSorely's worst moment was the spear to Mike Bullard in the 1988 playoffs.)

Anyway, as I explained earlier, I don't miss goonery at all, but I also don't blame guys like McSorley for the craziness that sometimes occurred. Those guys had an important job and did it. I blame the NHL for being so damn slow to keep up with the times and for not even bothering to enforce rules to protect their own superstars. (Of course today, in knee-jerk fashion, the NHL has gone too far in the other direction and NHL hockey now resembles ringette.)
 
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sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,289
Absolutely, give me a Link Gaetz over a bland 4th liner any day of the week.

Gaetz was a defenseman though so the one thing does not exclude the other, even on the same unit. You can have the worst best of both worlds.
 

SealsFan

Registered User
May 3, 2009
1,713
500
I don't miss cheap shots, sucker punches, hits after a play, attempts to injure, etc. but I do like to see some physical aspect to the game with solid hitting. Also having a rugged player on the ice can affect play even if it's only mental intimidation. Or a shadow like Bugsy Watson following Bobby Hull around all game, trying to get under his skin.

The trade-off for eliminating the brutality is as others have mentioned, loss of personality and characters. I've said this before that the skill and conditioning level across an entire team and across the entire league, appears to be the highest its ever been. But when I check out a game, players don't stick out as individuals apart from the obvious superstars because they all seem like good skaters. And with all the goalies playing the same style, sometimes its like watching a hockey video game.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
6,135
1,563
This is a better version of what I wanted to say
I don't miss cheap shots, sucker punches, hits after a play, attempts to injure, etc. but I do like to see some physical aspect to the game with solid hitting. Also having a rugged player on the ice can affect play even if it's only mental intimidation. Or a shadow like Bugsy Watson following Bobby Hull around all game, trying to get under his skin.

The trade-off for eliminating the brutality is as others have mentioned, loss of personality and characters. I've said this before that the skill and conditioning level across an entire team and across the entire league, appears to be the highest its ever been. But when I check out a game, players don't stick out as individuals apart from the obvious superstars because they all seem like good skaters. And with all the goalies playing the same style, sometimes its like watching a hockey video game.

Personally I don't miss cheap shots and enforcer hockey especially after learning more about players like Probert and Belak

But the tightening up of the rules did have one result I am not fond of. The game has become almost too fast lol. I kind miss watching the play develop a little slower and the skilled possession hockey needed to gain the zone. The game is so much about speed now its become the most important aspect by far.

Not a huge negative don't get me wrong but I used to enjoy watching the skilled players like Lemieux find ways through the absurd hooking and grabbing of the dead puck era or Lindros or Sundin just blow through them.

Now the entire league is like 400 Pavel Bure's going head to head and I think with speed becoming such an important aspect and goalie position being kind of standardized hockey has become kinda of homogenized.

But I am a huge fan of enforcer players being phased out. If you want pure fighting there are other better venues like UFC now.
 
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Blade Runner

Registered User
Jun 8, 2007
183
44
Matthew Barnaby, Darcy Tucker, Sean Avery and Jarkko Ruutu were crazy maniacs. Miss these guys.
 

a79krgm

Registered User
Jul 15, 2006
1,545
372
White Bear Lake
www.northstarshockey.com
Absolutely, give me a Link Gaetz over a bland 4th liner any day of the week.

I don't know about everyone else, but selecting a kid who shows up with a black eye to the draft is never a wasted pick in my book

canadian-hockey-player-link-gaetz-in-a-minnesota-north-stars-jersey-picture-id53463889
 
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DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
7,560
10,106
Melonville
When I see what happened to Bryan Little in a useless pre-season game the other day - and no action by the NHL, then yes I do miss it. I would love to dress a modern day Jimmy Mann against the Jets first game versus Minnesota.
 

Reality Check

Registered User
May 28, 2008
16,696
2,459
Fast forward to now and we had several posters proclaim that Niklas Kronwall was a psychopath in his retirement thread.

Funny how things have changed.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,289
I think Kronwall was more of a showboater, when it comes to that specific element of his game. No one loved the "Kronwalled" hits more than Kronwall himself. It was like watching a kid on the playground trying to impress on his dad, watching those hits. I adored that moment in the 2010 Olympics when Kronwall Kronwalled Palffy but Palffy Palffyed Kronwall back when he took the hit to make a play and Slovakia scored on the ensuing 2-on-1.
 

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