Do you miss the psychopaths in the NHL?

[JianYang]

I dont know if I miss the "psychopaths", but I do feel the game is more robotic, and has less dislike for the opposition.

I certainly miss those components. I mean, they are not completely gone, but it's not the same either.

 

[member 157595]

Absolutely, give me a Link Gaetz over a bland 4th liner any day of the week.

Hell yes. Dude had a terrific fight with Probert. Thankfully, no mortal men got hit in the crossfire.

 

[Sheppy]

There’s more aggressiveness and anger between rivals mascots on twitter than there is on the ice these days.

 

[The Panther]

There’s more aggressiveness and anger between rivals mascots on twitter than there is on the ice these days.

No way!! Everything today is the best EVER!!! One day soon, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Mitch Marner are gonna show Howe and Stevens who the real men are.

 

[Big Phil]

There is a shocking lack of hatred in hockey these days. We need that back. You don't have to be a careless psychopath, but I miss the days where there was a much higher risk of things boiling over. Players were mad at each other, fans loved it and the odd person that wagged their finger in the media we ignored.

 

[billybudd]

The sport was more entertaining then, in the same sense that a story with villains and heros is more entertaining than one with two protagonists merely trying to do their best, but we unfortunately didn't fully understand the consequences of winking at all the Dale Hunter stuff.

Is the sport "better" without it? Absolutely.

Is the sport as interesting from a spectator perspective? Unfortunately, no.

 

[sr edler]

Is the sport as interesting from a spectator perspective? Unfortunately, no.

I don't know if interesting is the right word. Is Link Gaetz, Tony Twist and Mike Peluso really interesting?

I think we'll have to admit to ourselves that violence is most often entertaining on a level more basic than that.

 

[billybudd]

I don't know if interesting is the right word. Is Link Gaetz, Tony Twist and Mike Peluso really interesting?

In Twist's case, yes. He had rivalries with several other enforcers. The one with Leroux, which was initiated when he had his block knocked off by an unknown in circumstances he viewed as less than "honorable," only to have Leroux act even less "honorably" in the rematches was very compelling stuff to watch in real-time.

Glenn Murray scored 25 goals in a Penguins uniform during the Twist/Leroux saga and I can't remember one of them. I'll always remember the Twist/Leroux thing, though.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

We loved the villains when we were adolescents. As adults, its nowhere nearly amusing. In fact, its downright ugly and embarrassing to the sport. Unfortunately, many males don't mature beyond 15 years of age.

 

[The Panther]

I think there's a big difference between "psychopaths" and rough, aggressive, tough players.

Okay, the Messiers and Stevens crossed the line once in a while with the elbows and late-hits, but otherwise I never had a problem with those kinds of players. They were 95% clean, high-skilled players who played with an edge. (They also didn't run away from physical encounters.)

When I was a kid in the 80s/90s, I did not enjoy the rough stuff much -- the staged fights, and the goonery, I thought was ridiculous. The League did the right (and inevitable) thing in getting rid of that. I'm talking about the bench-clearing brawls, late hits after the whistle, scrums every single time after the whistle delaying the game, goons who only play 4 minutes a game with no intention of playing hockey, players starting fights with 30 seconds left in 7 - 1 games, players injuring other players seemingly by coach's orders (Bobby Clarke, Kypreos) etc. Those kind of playground antics I always found unsportsmanlike and stupid, and I don't miss it.

But I do miss more tough stuff. I remember a great moment in the 1990 Cup Finals when Craig MacTavish and a frustrated Cam Neely, for example, were jostling for position in front of the Oilers' net, and they spontaneously dropped the gloves and had a brief 'rasslin' match. There was nothing dirty, no injury, no sticks, no pre-planned fighting, no psychopathology. Just two good players boiling over and not wanting to give an inch. Or, to use a more famous and full-on example, the epic Iginla vs. Lecavalier fight in the 2004 Finals. That was awesome!

I just don't see that stuff happening anymore, or at least very rarely.


EDIT: So, something's lost but something's gained. Still, I can envision where, in 20 years, the hockey warm-up is going to be like the NBA where all the players on different teams are chatting about their kids and mutually back-slapping each other right before the puck drops for game seven.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Oddly, I think I enjoyed the possibility of extreme unprovoked violence even though I'd pretty much always find it appalling when someone actually did it. The feeling that it was such an aggressive, wild, untamed game that anything could happen was palpable.

 

[Eisen]

Absolutely not. It's supposed to be a sport, not a barfight.

 

[JianYang]

I think there's a big difference between "psychopaths" and rough, aggressive, tough players.

Okay, the Messiers and Stevens crossed the line once in a while with the elbows and late-hits, but otherwise I never had a problem with those kinds of players. They were 95% clean, high-skilled players who played with an edge. (They also didn't run away from physical encounters.)

When I was a kid in the 80s/90s, I did not enjoy the rough stuff much -- the staged fights, and the goonery, I thought was ridiculous. The League did the right (and inevitable) thing in getting rid of that. I'm talking about the bench-clearing brawls, late hits after the whistle, scrums every single time after the whistle delaying the game, goons who only play 4 minutes a game with no intention of playing hockey, players starting fights with 30 seconds left in 7 - 1 games, players injuring other players seemingly by coach's orders (Bobby Clarke, Kypreos) etc. Those kind of playground antics I always found unsportsmanlike and stupid, and I don't miss it.

But I do miss more tough stuff. I remember a great moment in the 1990 Cup Finals when Craig MacTavish and a frustrated Cam Neely, for example, were jostling for position in front of the Oilers' net, and they spontaneously dropped the gloves and had a brief 'rasslin' match. There was nothing dirty, no injury, no sticks, no pre-planned fighting, no psychopathology. Just two good players boiling over and not wanting to give an inch. Or, to use a more famous and full-on example, the epic Iginla vs. Lecavalier fight in the 2004 Finals. That was awesome!

I just don't see that stuff happening anymore, or at least very rarely.


EDIT: So, something's lost but something's gained. Still, I can envision where, in 20 years, the hockey warm-up is going to be like the NBA where all the players on different teams are chatting about their kids and mutually back-slapping each other right before the puck drops for game seven.

You're bang on about the NBA type comraderie. Ray Ferraro made the point that while he played, they would barely know any opposing player on a personal level. I think that also is a reason that the trash talking between the benches has reduced so much, because through social media, and a smaller world, everyone seems to know each other in the hockey community.

Heck, Canadian players know European players in their teens without ever meeting them just by conversing through social media.

I think it's easier to dislike players when you don't know them personally, but that's just not possible for people engaged in social media, as so many young people are.

Unfortunately, I just don't think that dislike is ever coming back, and it has taken away some of the fun as a spectator.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know if interesting is the right word. Is Link Gaetz, Tony Twist and Mike Peluso really interesting?

I think we'll have to admit to ourselves that violence is most often entertaining on a level more basic than that.

I think we can all meet in the middle if we just say the game was more entertainment when it was more violent, and the reason it was more entertaining had absolutely nothing to do with the actual game of hockey and everything to do with the spectacle of watching grown men beat each other bloody.

 

[MadLuke]

I feel like the many testimony and study about the consequence of violence for athletes took away a lot of the fun's of seeing it for me. Before I saw them more as gladiator on ice with an honor system with an "of course" you go retaliate and so on, now I feel a Scott Stevens hitter would not be entertaining at all, when is play style and the storyline that developed from them were really fun back in the days.

 

[The Panther]

I think we can all meet in the middle if we just say the game was more entertainment when it was more violent, and the reason it was more entertaining had absolutely nothing to do with the actual game of hockey and everything to do with the spectacle of watching grown men beat each other bloody.

I assume you're being facetious here, but even so I disagree. I never found crazy violence in the sport (high-sticking; goons' fights; brawls; cheap-shots after whistles) entertaining. I thought it was ridiculous and needed to go. I don't miss that at all, in terms of entertainment value.

But what I do miss is players being more tough as the norm. For example, a shoving match in front of the net might result in offsetting minor-penalties and some anger between teams. Or the great open-ice hits of the past. For example, I recently posted the Wendel Clark/Mark Messier open-ice mutual hit from 1987. A game like that -- Toronto @ Edmonton, late 80s -- had no entertainment value in terms of the level of competition, but you could be very entertained by those kinds of open-ice hits. Nowadays, the same game might occur (let's say, Ottawa @ Tampa), and the score would still be 7 - 1 for Tampa, but there would be nothing in the game to entertain you.

I think a little physical intimidation has always been part of the game, and isn't necessarily a bad thing. I remember laughing a couple years ago (was it?) when Ovechkin scored his 600th (?) goal because his positioning on the ice was so easy. He basically cruised through the goal-crease, with no fear of being pushed or hit, and had about four wacks at the puck before scoring. Understand I'm not dissing Ovechkin (whom I like), but such a positioning would have been impossible anytime before Ovi's era because the player in question would get jumped for being in front of the net that long.

There was just a little more excitement when things were unpredictable. But no, I'm not talking about disgusting acts of violence. Still, it's hockey -- hits (intentional and unintentional) are GOING TO occur, and people are going to (and therefore, logically should) get hurt sometimes.

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

Only Dale Hunter, Claude Lemieux, and Mark Messier.

 

[tony d]

I miss the enforcer types but with all the damage these players do to themselves from on ice contact it's good they are no longer part of the game.

 

[Hobnobs]

I dont miss goons. Guys like Tony Twist and Scott Parker died out for a reason. What I do miss are tough physical intense rivalry hockey. Tough guys that could play like Probert, Manson, McSorley and so on.

 

[Rogue Winger]

I kind of miss all of them - enforcers, goons, dirty agitators. It was never just about fights, it was that wild feeling that anything could happen if players were angry enough.

That being said, it makes sense that they are gone and I'm used to it by now. Players are too valuable assets and roster spots are limited. Add sad CTE deaths and the pressure of the modern media...there is just no going back.

However, like many have said, true hatred and rivalry is also missing from the modern game and that is more sad than the absence of violent players.

 

[frisco]

Fighting was fine. The thuggery of violent acts on unsuspecting, defenseless opponents is a different story. Tie Domi sucker punching Ulf Samuelsson and elbowing Scott Niedermayer come to mind.

My Best-Carey

 

[MS]

Not even a little bit.

Getting pointless untalented goons and their staged fights out of the sport is the best thing that's happened in last 20 years. And it was a complete joke and an embarrassment that it was allowed to go on for so long.

And I like the odd fight, if it happens for a reason.

 

[sr edler]

Tie Domi sucker punching Ulf Samuelsson and elbowing Scott Niedermayer come to mind.

Or Niedermayer himself whacking Peter Worrell over the head with his stick. I had to log in to YT and confirm my age (like 12 year olds don't know how to make fake accounts) just to watch that clip again.

 

[psycat]

I miss it in the sense that I would love for ratmen like Messier+Clarke to actually get charged with assault and put where they belong.

 

[Big Phil]

I think we can all meet in the middle if we just say the game was more entertainment when it was more violent, and the reason it was more entertaining had absolutely nothing to do with the actual game of hockey and everything to do with the spectacle of watching grown men beat each other bloody.

More entertaining for sure. You hated some of the guys on the other team. It is too timid and too controlled nowadays. I mean, come on guys, lose your temper and get mad once in a while! If it is on Youtube, then great! What I think has happened is that the political correctness of society has crept into the last thing in the world we've wanted it to creep into, and that's sports. It reminds me of when I was a kid and my mother always wondered why they "had to be so rough" and how it would be so much nicer if they didn't hit each other. She hated seeing two men fighting and thought it was silly to see coaches yelling at each other from the bench. I always laughed at my mom, because she was always in the extreme minority with this and she just didn't "get" the game. But now? The old finger wagging ladies are now 30 year old men in the media with the same opinions. And everything is so much more sanitized today.

We have lost that spontaneous feeling in hockey. Guys are too friendly with each other to the point where it seems like it is more of just a paycheck than an importance of winning or losing.