Do you consider Karlsson and Doughty top 100 players of all time?

[koyvoo]

Being better than peers in a worse league does not make you a better player.

It does not make them a better player, but it definitely could mean they were a greater player.

 

[loadie]

Didn’t the NHL recently have a top 100 players of all time show? I can’t remember if either was on the list/show? That list was the end all for top 100 arguments...hahaha

 

[RedWingzz]

Didn’t the NHL recently have a top 100 players of all time show? I can’t remember if either was on the list/show? That list was the end all for top 100 arguments...hahaha

That list doesn't have much credibility considering Evgeni Malkin did not make the list but Jonathan Toews did.

 

[bobholly39]

That list doesn't have much credibility considering Evgeni Malkin did not make the list but Jonathan Toews did.

The list was probably ~90% fine, but had a few obvious misses (Malkin being probably the biggest one).

To me it was always such a weak effort though. Would have been so much more fun if they ranked the players, instead of just naming them

 

[psycat]

Not sure, I'd have to see who the consensus d-men are in the 90-110 range.

Between these two specifically, it's a really hard one for me. I love both guys. Karlsson is the more dynamic and exciting offensive force who can be more of a game changer, so Ottawa was a good fit for him even though he didn't win a Cup. Doughty, on the other hand, is more my cup of tea as far as d-men go. Very responsible in his own end, with a physical edge and a bit of a mean streak. The perfect corner stone for a Cup team.

I'm not sure Doughty would have done better than Karlsson in Ottawa, and I'm almost certain Karlsson wouldn't have made LA any better (they did win two Cups).

Toss a coin; I'd be very happy with either one.

With this reasoning I suppose you also agree that McDavid produce the way he does because he is on a subpar team? Because to me the only reason Karlsson was seen as bad defensively is because he was so relied upon offensively. Or to put it differently would Oilers be a better team with Bergeron than McDavid?

Would LA win more cups with Karlsson? Very doubtful since winning cups are somewhat fluky and they did win two, I am very confident in saying they would be a better team and win more games per average.

 

[Hisch13r]

Karlsson yes and Doughty no

 

[loadie]

That list doesn't have much credibility considering Evgeni Malkin did not make the list but Jonathan Toews did.

True, but were either of the two on that list? I didn’t pay much attention to it, but I was also surprised that Malkin didn’t make the list.

 

[member 329811]

EK65 fo sho.

 

[Agent Zub]

Sad you have to ask this when karlsson was looking to comfortably insert himself in the top 10 before injuries.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

With this reasoning I suppose you also agree that McDavid produce the way he does because he is on a subpar team? Because to me the only reason Karlsson was seen as bad defensively is because he was so relied upon offensively. Or to put it differently would Oilers be a better team with Bergeron than McDavid?

Would LA win more cups with Karlsson? Very doubtful since winning cups are somewhat fluky and they did win two, I am very confident in saying they would be a better team and win more games per average.

As I tell you every time we do this (you said Drew wasn't even a top active 15 dman during his Norris years FFS), that completely minimizes Doughty's role on those teams as if he were a passenger when really he was the main driver and the biggest shame for his legacy as you can see from these discussions is not getting a deserved Conn Smythe at those times.

 

[wetcoast]

80 to 120 for both most likely, but I'm way too lazy to make the list required to figure out the answer. I wouldn't say anyone was wrong or out of touch for either answer.


What era are we putting them in? Keith probably has a stronger argument than both, and I'd say Hedman is likely to end up with the better career and was only drafted a year behind them. Their careers also overlapped with the tail end of Pronger and Lidstrom. And it is hard to tell who among players drafted within 10 years of them will land (Makar, Seth Jones, etc).

80-120 is the range were I can see strong arguments for both or them.

for the record they finished 109 and 110 in the HOH section of this board

Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time

Also I think it is really obvious that Doughty is aging better not that everyone really cares about that metric though.

 

[Thenameless]

Would LA win more cups with Karlsson? Very doubtful since winning cups are somewhat fluky and they did win two, I am very confident in saying they would be a better team and win more games per average.

That might be so, but only for the regular season. I remember LA limping into the playoffs, I think during their second Cup run, but thinking to myself that these guys are going to be dangerous. LA was a team that was built for the playoff grind and it is primarily because of guys like Doughty who play with more substance than flash. It's very similar to the flash of the Leafs versus the grind of the Habs that just happened these playoffs.

 

[herashak]

If Malkin didn’t make the cut these guys don’t either

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Sad you have to ask this when karlsson was looking to comfortably insert himself in the top 10 before injuries.

Yup. So unfortunate. And that's top 10 D to be clear.

 

[hohosaregood]

Karl sucks now. You can't be a top 100 player when half your career is trash