Do you believe the core of this roster can win a Cup?

BagHead

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Dec 23, 2010
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Sure it's possible, but do you BELIEVE?

Monkeys may fly out of my butt is possible, I'm taking a 2nd mortgage is believe.


I don't have that depth of faith.

The ache in my science bone is telling me that I don't think that's possible.

The statistically best team in the league doesn't necessarily win the cup. There is no guarantee, no matter how good your team is. Having a playoff series instead of stand-alone games like in the NFL helps weed out the pretenders, but it's not perfect. I feel the Wild have a better chance than most, but not all teams. Certainly a more viable chance than those monkeys you ate have.
 

Al Lagoon

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Feb 22, 2012
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The ache in my science bone is telling me that I don't think that's possible.

The statistically best team in the league doesn't necessarily win the cup. There is no guarantee, no matter how good your team is. Having a playoff series instead of stand-alone games like in the NFL helps weed out the pretenders, but it's not perfect. I feel the Wild have a better chance than most, but not all teams. Certainly a more viable chance than those monkeys you ate have.

All I'm saying is belief is much stronger than, "yeah, it's possible." I think it's possible as well, but do I believe it will happen? Hell no.
 

BagHead

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All I'm saying is belief is much stronger than, "yeah, it's possible." I think it's possible as well, but do I believe it will happen? Hell no.

Alright, that's fair. When, then, would you say you believe? What would the roster have to look like? How close is it right now, in comparison?
 

TaLoN

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Alright, that's fair. When, then, would you say you believe? What would the roster have to look like? How close is it right now, in comparison?

I'm guessing most Minnesota people... by their nature... won't believe it until they are actually lifting the cup in celebration.
 

Minnesota

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I'm guessing most Minnesota people... by their nature... won't believe it until they are actually lifting the cup in celebration.

Might take me a few days to believe it's not a dream. ;)
 

Arturia Pendragon

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Do I believe they can win the cup? As in, I have faith supported by practice and trust?

Not a chance.

Any team has a possibility of winning the cup, sure, but there are a select few that you can say have contender hopes. Even then, you can't say for those contenders that you 'believe' they'll win the cup. Pro sports are too variable in nature to have any significant amount of belief in an outcome.

While this is simply debate founded in technicalities, I do think this distinction needs to be made. TaLoN said it best for more than just Minnesota fans: most won't believe it until they see it.

This team will continue to have a 'chance' with this core for maybe another year or two (before severe declining kicks in) but they have to show more than what we've come to 'expect' with what is 'possible' for them.
 

BagHead

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Dec 23, 2010
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Do I believe they can win the cup? As in, I have faith supported by practice and trust?

Not a chance.

Any team has a possibility of winning the cup, sure, but there are a select few that you can say have contender hopes. Even then, you can't say for those contenders that you 'believe' they'll win the cup. Pro sports are too variable in nature to have any significant amount of belief in an outcome.

While this is simply debate founded in technicalities, I do think this distinction needs to be made. TaLoN said it best for more than just Minnesota fans: most won't believe it until they see it.

This team will continue to have a 'chance' with this core for maybe another year or two (before severe declining kicks in) but they have to show more than what we've come to 'expect' with what is 'possible' for them.

The bolded is sort of the point I was fishing for up above. There is no point during the off-season at which any fan base can really say they believe they'll win the cup, unless they're naive. Once you're a couple series deep into the playoffs, at that point it's a good time to start believing, because your odds are pretty decent, actually. Before that, though? I think this roster has as good a chance to win as most others do, and that's the closest I can ever really claim to "believing". I don't think even Penguins fans believed they'd go back-to-back until it was basically happening already, they just believed they had a pretty awesome team that had a good chance.

I think our young prospects can keep that window of competition open for longer than a year or two, but JEE and Kunin will definitely have to develop into top-6 centers for it to be the case, or we'll need to make a really big trade.
 

Wild11MN

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Do I believe they can win the cup? As in, I have faith supported by practice and trust?

Not a chance.

Any team has a possibility of winning the cup, sure, but there are a select few that you can say have contender hopes. Even then, you can't say for those contenders that you 'believe' they'll win the cup. Pro sports are too variable in nature to have any significant amount of belief in an outcome.

While this is simply debate founded in technicalities, I do think this distinction needs to be made. TaLoN said it best for more than just Minnesota fans: most won't believe it until they see it.

This team will continue to have a 'chance' with this core for maybe another year or two (before severe declining kicks in) but they have to show more than what we've come to 'expect' with what is 'possible' for them.

Well you answered a different question than what was asked technically. Can vs. will is a big difference. The point was basically - is this roster good enough where it's possible to win a cup? Your last sentence would make your answer to the question "yes" if you believe the "chance" is anything more than minuscule, which maybe you don't.
 

Arturia Pendragon

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Well you answered a different question than what was asked technically. Can vs. will is a big difference. The point was basically - is this roster good enough where it's possible to win a cup? Your last sentence would make your answer to the question "yes" if you believe the "chance" is anything more than minuscule, which maybe you don't.

The debate of 'can' vs 'will' has little difference to 'believe' vs 'possible'.
Using a relatively firm position of 'believe' associated with 'can' is approaching paradoxical levels. If I believe in an outcome, I don't say it can happen, I say it will happen.
But that is just my opinion. I'd prefer that my belief not be supported by haphazard possibility, for then why should I believe it :P?
But then again I'm searching for an absolute that is near extinct in a variable outcome scenario :P.

So clearly I cannot choose the wine in front of you.
Ok, I kid I kid.

Well, yes, my last sentence would mean 'yes' once I disqualify my own interpretation of 'believe'. Once I start including words such as 'possibility' then I'm left to no choice but to say yes, because after all, the highly variable nature of outcomes in this sport could surely leave room for a .0001% chance hm :)?
 

Arturia Pendragon

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For nothing more than my own amusement, I may start polls with the phrasing:

1) 'Do you think it's possible the core of this team will win the cup?'

2) 'Do you believe the core of this team will win the cup?'

3) 'Is it posssible the core of this team can win a cup?'

Ok but I totally won't.
Just sayin :P.
 

57special

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My problem with this team is that the most important players, Suter, Koivu, Dubnyk, and Parise, have all come up small when we needed them to lead. Secondary Players like Granlund, Coyle, Spurgeon and Nino have been the ones who have delivered in the past. In order to win a Cup, more or less everything has to be ticking, but the big 4 simply haven't been close to that. Can you imagine CHI winning Cups with a mediocre Kane, or PIT with an invisible Crosby? I know the players I listed aren't of the same caliber, but we have better depth, which serves us well till the playoffs, when those players seem unable to raise their game.

Only hope we have is if the young guns ( Coyle, Granlund, Nino, Zucker, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, some goalie) raise their games as a whole during the playoffs. We've seen some of them do it, but most all of them have to do it in order to win a Cup. I don't see it, myself. Maybe, if Granlund maintains or surpasses the level of last year, and becomes an inspirational leader? I don't see that one player who can lead. Respect Koivu, but he has never been the one, for me.
 

DANOZ28

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57 i agree with that. it really is time for someone to take the bull by the horns & lead this team to victory or death! dramatic but you get my point.
 

Wild11MN

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For nothing more than my own amusement, I may start polls with the phrasing:

1) 'Do you think it's possible the core of this team will win the cup?'

2) 'Do you believe the core of this team will win the cup?'

3) 'Is it posssible the core of this team can win a cup?'

Ok but I totally won't.
Just sayin :P.

Such an outcry that someone worded something in a specific way because they wanted to get an opinion on a specific question. Semantics matter.

Edit: Sorry, the tone of that came off more negative than I expected. :laugh:
 
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Hall of Faber

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The core/leadership needs to shifted to the younger guys. Until that happens no chance in hell. A team that isnt commit to a their coaches order a night before a elimination game will NOT beat out 15 other teams in the playoffs.
 

Wabit

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May 23, 2016
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Such an outcry that someone worded something in a specific way because they wanted to get an opinion on a specific question. Semantics matter.

Edit: Sorry, the tone of that came off more negative than I expected. :laugh:

You can tell the off-season is wearing on people when semantics are being argued on the boards. :cry: The hockey needs to start already.
 

57special

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I have trouble believing that a team that has lost Scandella, Pominville, Haula, Tuch, Folin and gained Ennis and Foligno ( if he signs) is going to be better.
 

Saga of the Elk

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I have trouble believing that a team that has lost Scandella, Pominville, Haula, Tuch, Folin and gained Ennis and Foligno ( if he signs) is going to be better.

I think the loss of Scandella will be covered and more by the growth of Dumba and Brodin. Olofsson is just as skilled - will have growing pains - and Quincey is a reasonable replacement for Prosser at least. With Reilly and Murphy you have two AHL stars who can at least skate and move the puck in the NHL.

The biggest loss is Haula - he would have been a good get for Vegas without throwing in a likely NHLer this season in Tuch. I love JEE but playing center at Haula's level is not something a rookie is likely to be able to handle right away.

Pominville is a big loss too - just can't see Ennis covering it.

The injury risk factor when you have so many guys in their 30s is real. You can't play around it, you just have to hope.
 

DANOZ28

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I have trouble believing that a team that has lost Scandella, Pominville, Haula, Tuch, Folin and gained Ennis and Foligno ( if he signs) is going to be better.

offense parise & coyle could & should be better. zucker ; nino & granlund should equal or one may exceed and hit 30G! D production should be same & the only real worry is can quincy ; murphy; olofsson ; reilly provide equal defense to scandella. i dont think it will be a major drop off. if a well rested dubnyk can play decent the skys the limit. ps whatever loss from pommer > ennis & haula > JEE should be made up for by our dynomite 4th line!
 

Uberdachen

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I have trouble believing that a team that has lost Scandella, Pominville, Haula, Tuch, Folin and gained Ennis and Foligno ( if he signs) is going to be better.

Scandella was better than any 5th D we're going to have, but I don't know how much I'll miss whatever it was he brought last year. He seemed invisible, but not in that efficient defenseman way.
Folin, half season of a bottom pairing guy. He had one good stretch I remember, but not the kind of impact that's going to make the team worse with some other 3rd pair. I don't see it as much worse than losing Prosser. I like Prosser, but we're not going to complain much about that.
Tuch doesn't make the team worse. He would probably make the team better eventually, but comparing it against last season, he doesn't factor in.
Haula to Ek... I like what Haula brought but it didn't come with any irreplaceable amount of points.
Pominville, doesn't seem at all likely those points are being covered by his replacement(s). But looking at a slightly bigger picture with him, the year before he looked done and only managed 36 pts. No guarantee he repeats last year's output even if he stays, and the likelihood is that he trends down somewhere between a little and a holy-god-how-did-we-not-unload-this-guy lot. And, there is some hope that Ennis improves. I don't think he'll get that close to 47 pts, but the difference between what he does get and a certainly possible 36 from Pominville is probably not a team killer.

See how long it's been since hockey? Look what I've gone and convinced myself of. Gravity-**** the puck already.
 

TaLoN

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I have trouble believing that a team that has lost Scandella, Pominville, Haula, Tuch, Folin and gained Ennis and Foligno ( if he signs) is going to be better.

Scandella will be made up for by the top 4 getting more minutes and Brodin getting more minutes in particular, then the Olofsson pair will be sheltered with Olofsson getting no more than 12-15 mins tops.

Brodin will get closer to Spurgeon level minutes now. Around 24 mins per game.

Haula will bee made up for by a combination of both JEE and Cullen. Ek has more size and skill than Haula, and eventually should be a much better player than he is... Just isn't expected to be there yet, but who knows how fast or slow his development will be at the NHL level. Cullen is the best 4th line center in the league, and that included Haula when he was bumped down after the Hanzal trade.

Pominville could be made up for by a healthy Ennis alone, but if not both Foligno and Ennis combined may do the job.
 
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gphr513

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I have trouble believing that a team that has lost Scandella, Pominville, Haula, Tuch, Folin and gained Ennis and Foligno ( if he signs) is going to be better.

Also gained Cullen. You're also leaving out that we are essentially "gaining" Eriksson Ek, because it looks as if he's going to be given every opportunity to prove himself. If Ek can be a legit 3rd line center, and Cullen slots in on the 4th line, I think we're doing pretty well.
 

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