Do you approve of Rene Bourque?

[Fazkovsky]

He has improved in the last games. He has a good shot, he can chip in 25 in a top 6 role . Problem is im confused to know whether he is a top 6 or 9 lol

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

best season with the Habs -> 50 pts...

And what about the playoffs? Lets not conveniently dismiss the games he missed due to injury..

 

[TennisMenace]

I feel sorry for him having DD on his line.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

There's been nothing wrong with Bourque's performance outside of results/execution. He's quick on his skates, moves the puck well and always finds himself in a position to receive a pass for a quality scoring chance. He just needs to start potting in some goals to gain his confidence and when he does, everyone will love him.

Missing 58 percent of your shots though is terrible. For reference last season Plecs missed 32 percent, Max 35 and Eller was very bad at 42. And for all the grief that Gionta gets for missing the net he's at 36 percent.

58 percent man... He misses the net more than he hits it. And those missed shots don't count towards shooting percentage... they are just missed opportunities.

Bournival is converting those chances right now. No reason to switch this up, esp with Max out. Leave Bournival there for now and leave Bourque on the 3rd. He's better suited to the 3rd anyway.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

best season with the Habs -> 50 pts...

Cammy averaged 62/82
Bourque 28/82

One of these things is not like the other...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Cammy averaged 62/82
Bourque 28/82

One of these things is not like the other...

dont care how much he averages, he never had more than 50 pts in a full season with Habs.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

dont care how much he averages, he never had more than 50 pts in a full season with Habs.

Well in that case Bourque is sitting at 13 pts as his best 'season' if we're not averaging and 28 if we are

Any way you slice it Cammy was minimum 2x more productive as a Hab and the same 2x more productive with the Flames

and no that isn't worth $6MM - assuming that would be the next argument - but I'd take it over Bourque + DD for $6.8MM

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Cammy averaged 62/82
Bourque 28/82

One of these things is not like the other...

Yup. And even at 62 I was hoping for better from Cammy but it's significantly better than Bourque.

Bourque btw is sitting at 57% missed shots this season so he's right on pace for last year. Good news is that his shooting percentage is up over fourteen percent. Bad news is that it's very unlikely to stay that high.

Pretty clear that we should be putting Max with Plecs. We're wasting opportunities that he creates with Bourque and Max isn't getting opportunities created by DD. Put Plecs and Max together and that will be another strong line. Bourque DD Bournival can play the 3rd and Briere can either sit or play the 4th.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well in that case Bourque is sitting at 13 pts as his best 'season' if we're not averaging and 28 if we are

Any way you slice it Cammy was minimum 2x more productive as a Hab and the same 2x more productive with the Flames

and no that isn't worth $6MM - assuming that would be the next argument - but I'd take it over Bourque + DD for $6.8MM

minimum 2X the salary...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well in that case Bourque is sitting at 13 pts as his best 'season' if we're not averaging and 28 if we are

Any way you slice it Cammy was minimum 2x more productive as a Hab and the same 2x more productive with the Flames

and no that isn't worth $6MM - assuming that would be the next argument - but I'd take it over Bourque + DD for $6.8MM

Flames got a productive player and we took their problem child. They couldn't wait to get rid of him and as an added bonus his deal (while not as expensive per year) is longer. So we take him off their hands for a far more productive player and for this favour we get a 2nd round pick instead of a first...

That's not Bourque's fault of course but looking at the recent success that Bournival's had with him prompted me to look at those stats and they are shocking to say the least. If the guy is wasting close to 60% of the chances given to him by Plecs he's actually hurting us up there.

Again, not really his fault... that's on the coach. Up until now I figured that his size compensated for his lack of ability but now seeing the numbers (something I wouldn't have bothered with if not for this thread) it's quite clear that the dude is wasting opportunities for us.

Folks say we're only paying him a couple of million... okay. We should start playing him that way and put him on the third line. 'Cause it's pretty clear that we're wasting Plekanec with him.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

He's OK.

 

[AJMHABS]

best season with the Habs -> 50 pts...

While missing 17 games to injury.

 

[Haburger]

I have no problem with rene.speed,size and a heavy shot .a little more consistency would be nice but that's who he is.he definitely aint hurting us.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well in that case Bourque is sitting at 13 pts as his best 'season' if we're not averaging and 28 if we are

Any way you slice it Cammy was minimum 2x more productive as a Hab and the same 2x more productive with the Flames

and no that isn't worth $6MM - assuming that would be the next argument - but I'd take it over Bourque + DD for $6.8MM

perfect ecample of who using averages is stupid, in his 13 pts season, Bourque played 27 games... what are the chances he keeps the exact same pace for 55 more games ? (for a full 82 games season for example)...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Flames got a productive player and we took their problem child. They couldn't wait to get rid of him and as an added bonus his deal (while not as expensive per year) is longer. So we take him off their hands for a far more productive player and for this favour we get a 2nd round pick instead of a first...

That's not Bourque's fault of course but looking at the recent success that Bournival's had with him prompted me to look at those stats and they are shocking to say the least. If the guy is wasting close to 60% of the chances given to him by Plecs he's actually hurting us up there.

Again, not really his fault... that's on the coach. Up until now I figured that his size compensated for his lack of ability but now seeing the numbers (something I wouldn't have bothered with if not for this thread) it's quite clear that the dude is wasting opportunities for us.

Folks say we're only paying him a couple of million... okay. We should start playing him that way and put him on the third line. 'Cause it's pretty clear that we're wasting Plekanec with him.

someone should tell this guy that not every player is worth a 1ST... now it's Cammy, before it was A.K... who else was supposed to be worth a 1st, Gill ? Spacek ? Gomez ?

seriously...

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

perfect ecample of who using averages is stupid, in his 13 pts season, Bourque played 27 games... what are the chances he keeps the exact same pace for 55 more games ? (for a full 82 games season for example)...

Facts-Smacts, OK we'll throw out all the stats that cloud reality with your vision of Mr. Bourque

Career totals, gone

Total season averages, adios

Extrapolated season averages, arrivederci

Pre Trade stats, hasta la vista

Post Trade stats, sayonara

Leaves us with you really liking Bourque cause he's a swell guy, tries hard, is over 6 ft and could reach the next level if his linemates weren't holding him back

That about sum it up?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Facts-Smacts, OK we'll throw out all the stats that cloud reality with your vision of Mr. Bourque

Career totals, gone

Total season averages, adios

Extrapolated season averages, arrivederci

Pre Trade stats, hasta la vista

Post Trade stats, sayonara

Leaves us with you really liking Bourque cause he's a swell guy, tries hard, is over 6 ft and could reach the next level if his linemates weren't holding him back

That about sum it up?

at least you tried.

 

[MasterDecoy]

meanwhile mike cammalleri has 5 points in just 4 games. i hated his contract, but i would rather have him than briere, gionta, deshairnais, bourque.

good for him. this is where i'll repeat the standard line about desharnais: "60 points on a last place team doesn't mean ****". cammy scoring on calgary doesn't mean **** and no matter how many points he puts up, it doesn't make me miss his me-first, mister pouty "but im a superstar" attitude and his "i am as useless as **** on a bull when i am not scoring" play. but it's a contract year so there's his motivation

oh, and i forgot fragile

oh, and he's being paid 6,000,000 for it too. nice gig

we got bourque who is doing exactly what he should be doing (or doing what we expected of him), we got the best-ranked goalie from last draft and holland - whom, like the country, i have an unhealthy crush on, for this small, soft, prima donna

im ok with that.

if it wasn't from his improbable and magical playoff run, nobody in montreal would give two ***** about that guy

 

[Kriss E]

someone should tell this guy that not every player is worth a 1ST... now it's Cammy, before it was A.K... who else was supposed to be worth a 1st, Gill ? Spacek ? Gomez ?

seriously...

Gaustad??

 

[DAChampion]

Gaustad??

Are you trying to argue that because Gaustad can fetch a first every player better than Gaustad can fetch a first?

Doesn't follow, sorry. Paul Gaustad fetched a first because he was drastically overrated. The Nashville GM not only gave up a first for Gaustad, he then offered him a nonsensical contract, the same GM who thought his team was too good for Kostitsyn and Radulov, and today Nashville is no longer a playoff team. Sometimes teams will be able to run off with the goods in a trade, but fans should not expect that from their GMs as a general rule.

Here's another analogy:

Thomas Vanek gets:
Matt Moulson
A first
A second

Mon Calamari gets:
Rene Bourque
A second
Patrick Holland

You'll notice that these two trades are quite level. Vanek is a better player than Cammalleri, on a better contract, and thus he fetched one notch more in each compartment.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Gaustad??

nashville wanted a defensively responsible forward who could win faceoffs not some uni-dimensional sniper so they paid for what they needed and they got it. while cammy is the player with the most absolute value, if less team want him then he has less actual value, you need teams willing to pay that price.

LG will say vegan skeletor could have gotten a first for cammy, i say he could have, but not calgary's. feaster has a reputation for being, how to put it, simple-minded, but iirc, he made it quite clear that his first was going nowhere

in the hypothetical that goat found a team willing to pay a first, you have to assume it's a team safely in the playoffs, or a bubble team hoping cammy puts them over the top no? so is a mid or very low first worth more than a very high second, bourque (which was a need) and holland?

i don't think so but i'll concede it's arguable.

afwiw, spacegoat was definitely worth a 1st

gauthier

edit: damn, champ beat me to it

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

nashville wanted a defensively responsible forward who could win faceoffs not some uni-dimensional sniper so they paid for what they needed and they got it. while cammy is the player with the most absolute value, if less team want him then he has less actual value, you need teams willing to pay that price.

LG will say vegan skeletor could have gotten a first for cammy, i say he could have, but not calgary's. feaster has a reputation for being, how to put it, simple-minded, but iirc, he made it quite clear that his first was going nowhere

in the hypothetical that goat found a team willing to pay a first, you have to assume it's a team safely in the playoffs, or a bubble team hoping cammy puts them over the top no? so is a mid or very low first worth more than a very high second, bourque (which was a need) and holland?

i don't think so but i'll concede it's arguable.

afwiw, spacegoat was definitely worth a 1st

gauthier

edit: damn, champ beat me to it

I don't remember him saying this. And actually the guy went out and was prepared to give up multiple firsts in the Ryan O'Reilly fiasco so that doesn't really stand up. I think us taking on Bourque should've been good enough to get the first or we could've gone somewhere else. But whatever... old news. And YES knowing what we know now that trade looks better as Fucale looks to have a good future and that's something to be happy about.

It is what it is now. My initial thoughts on Bourque coming into this thread was - he's okay. Doesn't hurt us. But looking at those missed shot stats at a glance makes me wonder what he's doing up there with Plecs. At a glance anyway, those stats don't make me feel very good. Plecs is our best playmaker and Bourque looks like he can't hit the side of a barn. Seems to be a lot of wasted opportunities.

And I get the logic behind having him on that line because I actually felt his size made sense to have him there... but really, Bournival comes up and we start converting chances. Makes me wonder what Plecs could do with Max.

It's only one stat, more to be thought of here. But it is worrisome. 58 percent of your shots not hitting the net is crazy, esp when you compare it to the others on our team. That's a hell of a lot of wasted opportunity and it makes me wonder how much more we could be getting out of Plecs. Same thing is happening with Max and DD too. So put the two guys who can be productive together and let Bourque and DD eat smaller minutes on lower lines.

 

[Avengers*]

Mike Cammalleri was and still is a lot better

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Are you trying to argue that because Gaustad can fetch a first every player better than Gaustad can fetch a first?

Doesn't follow, sorry. Paul Gaustad fetched a first because he was drastically overrated. The Nashville GM not only gave up a first for Gaustad, he then offered him a nonsensical contract, the same GM who thought his team was too good for Kostitsyn and Radulov, and today Nashville is no longer a playoff team. Sometimes teams will be able to run off with the goods in a trade, but fans should not expect that from their GMs as a general rule.

Here's another analogy:

Thomas Vanek gets:
Matt Moulson
A first
A second

Mon Calamari gets:
Rene Bourque
A second
Patrick Holland

You'll notice that these two trades are quite level. Vanek is a better player than Cammalleri, on a better contract, and thus he fetched one notch more in each compartment.

Except that Moulson wasn't a guy who the Islanders couldn't wait to be rid of tied to a long term deal. Bourque was. And Calgary was stuck with him for four years. We were doing them a favour by taking him The Isles weren't.

Anyways, didn't mean to open that can of worms but as I said at the beginning - the analysts all said the guy could get a first BEFORE he was dealt. He'd been very productive in Calgary before and they wanted him. So for us to take back a headache and payroll, you'd think we'd be compensated for it. Otherwise why deal with Calgary? But we didn't even look, he was traded the next day in the middle of a game for a player who was suspended etc....

One positive though DAC, knowing what we know now with Fucale, I'd say it turns out a lot better than we could've expected. Yes, I still feel that we should've gotten a first (if not from Calgary then from somebody else) and that our GM was asleep at the switch but at the end of the day we lucked out with Fucale still being around so I'd say that it works out for us. We got a very good prospect out of it at the very least and that's something to be happy about. Takes the sting out of things and it's why I don't think it's worth discussing much at this point.

 

[11Goat11]

I like Bourque this year, seems engaged and is getting lots of chances. He doesn't hurt the team and Cammy was too much of a primmadonna. Ya I'd like him to bury some more of his chances but I think if he stays healthy he could be an asset in the playoffs.