Line Combos: Do we really have cap issues?

[ULF_55]

They might and we hope they will become successful NHLers down the road, but I was only referring to the current NHL roster for this year, which I don't believe either are being considered.

Leafs might want to stagger their NHL arrival to remain competitive so one in 2020-21 and the other in 2021-22 so they don't have 2 rookie Dmen on the defense.

The answer is in scouting and drafting.

If Lamoriello's staff drafted competently the Leafs will have replacement players on manageable contracts. Kind of funny, they could have 1st. round picks still on the ELC with 3 years of pro experience with the Marlies as rookies in the NHL, aged 21.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

NOT any more. The days of the Leafs cap issues are gone.

Thanks Dubas!

Yes, we have zero cap problems and are rid of them forever ...... until we have the cap problems again of course ....

 

[FabledKnight]

Hymen Tavares Marner
Nylander Matthews Kapanen
Mik Kerfoot AJ
Goat Spezza Moore
Shore

Reilly Barrie
Muzzin Ceci
Dermott Harpour
Maricin Holl

 

[Mess]

The answer is in scouting and drafting.

If Lamoriello's staff drafted competently the Leafs will have replacement players on manageable contracts. Kind of funny, they could have 1st. round picks still on the ELC with 3 years of pro experience with the Marlies as rookies in the NHL, aged 21.

Development is often the biggest factor in the whole process.

Since Dubas has become GM he has already traded away Leafs 1st in 2019 and potentially 2020 or 2021. Then scouting and drafting becomes even more critical without top draft picks in the system.

So the former 1sts currently cooking and over ripping in the system like Liljegrin and Sandin are even more critical to determine if we have cap issues going forward, because you can almost not afford your 1sts to bust, and then hope your mid to later round picks come through, once those 1st rounders are not being replenished.

Between Muzzin and Marleau Leafs are down 2 X 1sts and 2 X former 2nds (Grundstrom and Durzi) and if Muzzin isn't resigned he could walk away after this year and you will have nothing to show for all those picks/prospects even if you replace Muzzin internally with Liljegren or Sandin for cap issues.

PS. A Marner unmatched OS could solve 2 birds with 1 stone as your cap issues are gone without another $11 mil cap hit to manage, and you have 4 X 1sts to replenish the future.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Hymen Tavares Marner
Nylander Matthews Kapanen
Mik Kerfoot AJ
Goat Spezza Moore
Shore

Reilly Barrie
Muzzin Ceci
Dermott Harpour
Maricin Holl

Marchment will make the team.

 

[Stephen]

The answer is in scouting and drafting.

If Lamoriello's staff drafted competently the Leafs will have replacement players on manageable contracts. Kind of funny, they could have 1st. round picks still on the ELC with 3 years of pro experience with the Marlies as rookies in the NHL, aged 21.

I feel like the rebuild got off the ground a little too fast for an ideal amount of assets to be accumulated. We never got to that point with overwhelming depth that teams like Colorado seem to have, since they took a stumble or two and had a prolonged rebuild.

If the Leafs took an additional 2x years to become a playoff team I wonder what the salaries of Nylander, Matthews and Marner might have looked like, we probably don't have Tavares but we have the 2nd round picks from Boyle and Plekanec and trade hauls from van Riemsdyk and Bozak, also no Muzzin trade and Liljegren and Sandin may be better prospects.

 

[Canada4Gold]

7-3-1 for protected players. Seven forwards: Looking at the current forwards MM, Willie, JT, AM, Kerfoot, Kap, AJ, and Hyman are the keepers but Hyman's deal will be expired, and Bracco and Mekheyev, will be exempt.

Three D men: I don't think they resign Barrie, but if so they protect him, Rielly and Muzzen with Ceci being the odd man out. Muzzen will be looking at a NM as will Barrie if they re-up. and I don't think the club will want all NM clauses in their top 4 which is one of the reasons they won't resign Barrie. Of course if Muzzen has a bad year, Ceci becomes a beast, or a Marlie storms onto the scene the mix might change.

Dermott would be taken.

 

[Nylander88]

Marchment will make the team.

I dont think he will, but I hope you're right. Love his style! Hell give him a look with Matthews and Nylander in a preseason game. Dangle a carrot infront of the man!lol

 

[nuck]

Dermott would be taken.

He might be more likely to challenge Muzzin for the 3rd protected spot than Ceci and may cost less than either.

 

[BrainyBomber]

Leafs cap issue question will really boil own to one single question and that is can a team pay 4 Forwards ~ 1/2 its total cap space and still ice a cup competitive team?

This is what will be tested this year based on Leafs on ice results not the ability to simply get 23 players on a roster and cap compliant.

The following year Leafs currently have only Rielly under contract and all of Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci are all UFAs and Dermott at RFA without contracts. So Dubas will need to sign at minimum 5 dmen for the 2020-21 season.

You really can't leave well enough alone.

So we end up not actually having to trade AJ and Kapanen to become cap complaint which you saw no way around. And now that the team is improved with enough space to still sign Marner you are finding fake problems for next summer.

Yes we only have Rielly signed on D. But Dermott is RFA the natural cap rise will cover his raise. Sandin and Lilly will most likely we ready by then. We will have around 12m next summer to find a couple more quality Dmen which won't be a problem. There are tons of good FAs available next summer. Or just resign Barrie and a 4m Dman or Muzzin with a 6m Dman.

It is also possible to win a cup with 4 very expensive players just ask the Pens and Hawks.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

You really can't leave well enough alone.

So we end up not actually having to trade AJ and Kapanen to become cap complaint which you saw no way around. And now that the team is improved with enough space to still sign Marner you are finding fake problems for next summer.

Yes we only have Rielly signed on D. But Dermott is RFA the natural cap rise will cover his raise. Sandin and Lilly will most likely we ready by then. We will have around 12m next summer to find a couple more quality Dmen which won't be a problem. There are tons of good FAs available next summer. Or just resign Barrie and a 4m Dman or Muzzin with a 6m Dman.

It is also possible to win a cup with 4 very expensive players just ask the Pens and Hawks.

 

[DueDiligence]

Muzzy will not be an issue to re-sign. His wife and family want him to finish up a Leaf. This is why I like local guys who dreamt of playing for the Leafs as kids.

Easy just like Marner!

 

[81Leafs50]

Leafs cap issue question will really boil own to one single question and that is can a team pay 4 Forwards ~ 1/2 its total cap space and still ice a cup competitive team?

This is what will be tested this year based on Leafs on ice results not the ability to simply get 23 players on a roster and cap compliant.

The following year Leafs currently have only Rielly under contract and all of Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci are all UFAs and Dermott at RFA without contracts. So Dubas will need to sign at minimum 5 dmen for the 2020-21 season.

Look at it this way.

Leafs have $26,103,634 in cap space come next summer.

I have no doubt that Nylander will have a BIG year and the Leafs will get a big return for him.

At this point the Leafs are better off waiting out Marner and taking the compensation for an offer sheet and going after another player that will be cheaper like Laine or Kyle Connor. WPG cannot pay both.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I'm pretty meh about it. It looks like Dubas is in damage control to me. We lose Gardiner and Kadri but gain Barrie, seems sideways to me. We still don't have the grit to beat the last 2 Stanley cup champions and I'm still not seeing us beating Boston. If we lose Marner then what? This team is no closer to a cup if you ask me.

 

[Nithoniniel]

So for Dubas to change the narrative of striking out on all 3

Based on the arguments made, I'm not sure it's possible for Dubas to change certain narratives.

 

[Mess]

Based on the arguments made, I'm not sure it's possible for Dubas to change certain narratives.

Those narratives can change if the Leafs team has success.

Though he may have lost some contract battles along the way, but if they don't prevent the Leafs from finding success you could can call that vindication for Dubas seen as winning the big picture war.

The record will show Dubas will have signed his 4 top players to approximately 1/2 the teams total available cap space which is unprecedented in a salary cap world, and while he can't change history nor perception of those individual deals, the narrative changes based on how the team preforms as a result.

If Leafs miss the playoffs and Dubas is using his lottery protected 1st round pick a year from now, while giving away your next years 1st, there will be an avalanche of criticism raining down on Dubas for his cap management skills, as a result of his contracts and it leading the team to failure. Those narratives won't change they will only be amplified by "I told you so" now validated opinions supported by facts.

If the Leafs win the Stanley Cup, Dubas will be viewed as a genius, and all his naysayers will have been silenced forever.

 

[Dough72]

I'm pretty meh about it. It looks like Dubas is in damage control to me. We lose Gardiner and Kadri but gain Barrie, seems sideways to me. We still don't have the grit to beat the last 2 Stanley cup champions and I'm still not seeing us beating Boston. If we lose Marner then what? This team is no closer to a cup if you ask me.

maybe. But kadri was useless last season and both kadri and gardiner were useless in the playoffs so to me it feels like a team that was a coin-flip from beating Boston just added an elite defenceman out of nowhere and also an elite winger out of nowhere with Nylander.

 

[Darth Menace]

Correct me if I am wrong, but how can anyone say the Leafs aren't in cap hell? We have 3.76 million left in the salary cap...and we still have Marner to sign (So add about another $7 million over the cap)....AND that would give us only 46 out of 50 contracts.

 

[-DeMo-]

You really can't leave well enough alone.

So we end up not actually having to trade AJ and Kapanen to become cap complaint which you saw no way around. And now that the team is improved with enough space to still sign Marner you are finding fake problems for next summer.

Yes we only have Rielly signed on D. But Dermott is RFA the natural cap rise will cover his raise. Sandin and Lilly will most likely we ready by then. We will have around 12m next summer to find a couple more quality Dmen which won't be a problem. There are tons of good FAs available next summer. Or just resign Barrie and a 4m Dman or Muzzin with a 6m Dman.

It is also possible to win a cup with 4 very expensive players just ask the Pens and Hawks.

the Hawks most expensive players on there cup winning teams were 6.3 million in Kane and Toews. those are not really high priced. they haven't won since those guys started making double digits. infact they really haven't been competitive since those contracts. and the Penguins have Malkin at 9.5, Crosby at 8.7 and Letang at 7.25 the rest were all under 7 million not really comparable to the 35-40 million our top 4 will take up. the top 4 on Pitts took up 41 and 43 percent of there entire cap hit in there cup wins, while if Marner signs for 10 the top 4 will take up 48% and I'm not saying it can't be done but I doubt those teams had nearly 50% of these cap in 4 guys when they won. were in tough right now.

 

[thewave]

Op, Yes and team balance issues going forward.

 

[crump]

going forward we have to keep in mind the expansion draft, but also the new TV deal that is coming.

"The current contract between the NHL and the Comcast owned NBC and NBC SportsNet expires at the end of the 2021-22 season, but negotiations for the renewal could begin this year.

Under the current ten-year agreement begun in 2011, NBC and NBC SportsNet paid the NHL $2 billion, or $200 million per season."

I would expect that number to double, looking at trends in other sports. This money will no doubt be negotiated as part of the new CBA and will be distributed in the cap system somehow.

for example Rogers deal ....

"The money generated from the agreement is considered hockey-related revenue, which means the players receive 50 percent of the revenues based on the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The salary cap is expected to rise from its current $64.3 million starting with the 2014-15 season because of the financial magnitude of the agreement between the NHL and Rogers.
"Over the course of 12 years it provides a lot of economic certainty for the clubs and, ultimately, for the cap," NHL Chief Operating Officer John Collins said. "Fifty cents of every dollar goes into the player salaries, so this is a significant increase and it certainly helps us get to the $4 billion goal that we've been talking about."

I am sure a lot of Marner's negotiation is hung up on term for this reason.

 

[Faltorvo]

I feel like the rebuild got off the ground a little too fast for an ideal amount of assets to be accumulated. We never got to that point with overwhelming depth that teams like Colorado seem to have, since they took a stumble or two and had a prolonged rebuild.

If the Leafs took an additional 2x years to become a playoff team I wonder what the salaries of Nylander, Matthews and Marner might have looked like, we probably don't have Tavares but we have the 2nd round picks from Boyle and Plekanec and trade hauls from van Riemsdyk and Bozak, also no Muzzin trade and Liljegren and Sandin may be better prospects.

Naw,,it was not the pace of it that is the issue

it's more about still waiting to hit a home run or at least solid triple with any pick outside the top 10

Derm/John are nice doubles aka/ maybe top 4/6 ,,,maybe, just maybe littlegrin and Sandin can be those. If those 2 get to near stud/stud level,,,we set big time.

 

[Faltorvo]

going forward we have to keep in mind the expansion draft, but also the new TV deal that is coming.

"The current contract between the NHL and the Comcast owned NBC and NBC SportsNet expires at the end of the 2021-22 season, but negotiations for the renewal could begin this year.

Under the current ten-year agreement begun in 2011, NBC and NBC SportsNet paid the NHL $2 billion, or $200 million per season."

I would expect that number to double, looking at trends in other sports. This money will no doubt be negotiated as part of the new CBA and will be distributed in the cap system somehow.

for example Rogers deal ....

"The money generated from the agreement is considered hockey-related revenue, which means the players receive 50 percent of the revenues based on the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The salary cap is expected to rise from its current $64.3 million starting with the 2014-15 season because of the financial magnitude of the agreement between the NHL and Rogers.
"Over the course of 12 years it provides a lot of economic certainty for the clubs and, ultimately, for the cap," NHL Chief Operating Officer John Collins said. "Fifty cents of every dollar goes into the player salaries, so this is a significant increase and it certainly helps us get to the $4 billion goal that we've been talking about."

I am sure a lot of Marner's negotiation is hung up on term for this reason.

don't be too sure that the cap will rocket with the new usa deal

Understand this,,we are playing under a "fake" cap number right now , about 8.2m too high "fake". Given that the players lose about 10/12% to escrow.

Something tells me the players want that down closer to 0%

 

[Faltorvo]

the Hawks most expensive players on there cup winning teams were 6.3 million in Kane and Toews. those are not really high priced. they haven't won since those guys started making double digits. infact they really haven't been competitive since those contracts. and the Penguins have Malkin at 9.5, Crosby at 8.7 and Letang at 7.25 the rest were all under 7 million not really comparable to the 35-40 million our top 4 will take up. the top 4 on Pitts took up 41 and 43 percent of there entire cap hit in there cup wins, while if Marner signs for 10 the top 4 will take up 48% and I'm not saying it can't be done but I doubt those teams had nearly 50% of these cap in 4 guys when they won. were in tough right now.

Pitt had a 7m tender and 6.8m winger ,,IIRC. Our Letang is 2m cheaper and so is our tender, so that is 4 million right there to spread around.

 

[Legion34]

As of right now we can afford Marner at anything under 10.5 with a 13 f 7 d 2 g roster.

If we have to go up to 11.2 we can drop to 12 f roster.

Next year if we call up sandin and Lilly we will have a roster of about 60’million with Marner, dermott, muzzin and Barrie to sign

Thar will be probably about 24-25 million

Barrie probably gets 7-8
muzzin. Probably gets 5-6
Dermott probably gets 2-3

Depending on term Marner probably gets anywhere between 7-11

If Marner really wants 2-3 year term then I can see fitting the roster in pretty easily. If not we might lose kap or mango and bring up 1 forward. It’s not the end of the world.

We are fine as much as people don’t want to believe it