Do we need to fire Tocchett?

[Bonsai Tree]

We have a better, more progressive system than Tipp gave us. Top-rated pk.

I dont know if he (and Tipp) were sheltering rookies to an extent by "demoting" them. I saw growth in Strome this year - Crouse as well.

In our post-Detroit era, I think it will be all-telling if he can adapt the system so it is not as easily defended.

How is it better? How is it progressive? Tippet did better than Tocchet with the same or less talent.

 

[Foggy1097]

I think most of us, myself included, have been a little bit too reactionary regarding Tocchet. Demers is gone. Dvo is gone. Raanta is about to reach double digits for games missed already this season...I think they will get it together eventually. It sucks that they can’t get any sustained momentum without someone going down or someone having an inexplicably bad game out of nowhere. They just upgraded the offense, hopefully, with the addition of Schmaltz...but now it’s about finding the right mix and chemistry, and who will stick at center while Dvo is out, Chucky or Schmaltz. I have a feeling it’s going to be Schmaltz’s turn real soon. So there’s a lot of moving parts going on with this team. Not completely letting the coaching staff off the hook, especially Maclean, but you’ve got to put things into the proper context a little bit too. One thing is for sure...the PP is hot garbage and that has to change quick.

 

[XX]

I think most of us, myself included, have been a little bit too reactionary regarding Tocchet. Demers is gone. Dvo is gone. Raanta is about to reach double digits for games missed already this season...I think they will get it together eventually. It sucks that they can’t get any sustained momentum without someone going down or someone having an inexplicably bad game out of nowhere. They just upgraded the offense, hopefully, with the addition of Schmaltz...but now it’s about finding the right mix and chemistry, and who will stick at center while Dvo is out, Chucky or Schmaltz. I have a feeling it’s going to be Schmaltz’s turn real soon. So there’s a lot of moving parts going on with this team. Not completely letting the coaching staff off the hook, especially Maclean, but you’ve got to put things into the proper context a little bit too. One thing is for sure...the PP is hot garbage and that has to change quick.

The proper context is that teams have adjusted to how the Coyotes played early on and the Coyotes have not made any adjustments in return, cue beatings.

 

[Mosby]

No, not yet.

Tim Hunter if we do.

The Nelson stuff is kinda funny. He (as an assistant) isn't exactly recreating the wheel with a far superior roster in Dallas.

 

[lanky]

Ride it out til new ownership decides on the GM position. Coaching decisions can follow from there.

 

[Summer Rose]

If we were a normal team, yes.
Being the Coyotes who the hell knows.

The post is in another thread and I can't figure out how to quote a post from another thread, but I want to joke that he's on the Frozen Throne since I'm a Warcraft nerd.

 

[johnchayka89]

The proper context is that teams have adjusted to how the Coyotes played early on and the Coyotes have not made any adjustments in return, cue beatings.

X2 to this.

Teams started taking us seriously and we were obviously figured out. We never seemed to have a plan B to counter.
That’s coaching. Adjusting, etc...
Not the players. Hard to play w swagger when you know you dont have a chance.

 

[rt]

We’re on pace for 78 points. My prediction for the year was mid-eighties. This is disappointing but I didn’t have a whole lot of hope for this roster.

Apart from the Domi trade. I’d liked most of Chayka’s hockey moves. The Schmaltz deal is pretty rocky in my eyes, too. Still, if I’m going to call for Chayka’s head, it can’t start before the Domi trade for me.

As for Tocchet, I like the tempo of the game. I think we are playing with more speed. He’s more entertaining than Tippett. He seems to dislike young players as much. His view seems equally myopic. I don’t think he’s the right guy to grow this young team.

Having said that, Chayka is clearly trying to build a roster of young vets. This should be okay with Tocchet. If we can luck out with a star like Hughes and other Chayka picks start to materialize, then Tocchet might be a good fit. If trades for more experienced youngsters persist and the next batch of rookies Taylor made by Chayka integrate well, we might be okay.

The shitty part is that we’ve rebuilt the rebuild via a retool, and I don’t have faith in that strategy at all.

 

[Llewzaher]

I dont think he should be fired at this point...

The team is in a funk .... But this team can turn it around , if they put the effort in ..

Up until 3 weeks ago this team was rocking .... I think ( and I could be wrong ) it was the philly game where it started falling apart... We scord 3 easy goals in the first period without even trying ( for the 4th game in a row? ) and they just stopped playing . They lost a couple more , and then the worst thing that could happen did.... They won a game they shouldnt have and its been downhill ever since.

We have seen how this team can be when they work hard ... They just have to get back into it. They need to stop thinking and do what comes naturally. We have the speed - we need to use it again, and think the game faster as well..

Its all mental ...maybe they need a shrink.

 

[Sinurgy]

The hard work angle is a nice way of saying the Coyotes are far less talented than the teams they're playing. It'd be really nice if one day other teams had to out work the Coyotes to have any shot in hell at winning the game.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Dont necessarily think he should have been hired in the first place.

It is the consistency aspect for us. Two weeks ago, we were riding a 5 game win streak, where I (and others) thought that it would be extremely unlikely to not make the playoffs.

Now, we are back in that same boat of not really knowing what we have to work with and what we are doing to move the needle in the proper direction. Coaching is a chess match/poker game in some ways - all about finding openings and understanding where weaknesses and strengths lie and how to exploit that. Some of our issue is that we have to rely on young players with some major talent who are still putting it together, and veterans who have some talent, but are still relatively average in that regard (compare our roster of players with more than 300 games of NHL experience to other team's rosters with the same games played metric, and we will see a glaring difference in talent). Its the same thing that had been said with the previous coach - we are doing the best we can with a depleted level of talent. Now that more talent is here, it is a matter of getting them to play to that level consistently. We need a "star" player in the worst way. Strome wasn't it. Keller may be on his way there.

No issues with what Chayka is doing. It's the whole "you have to spend money to make money" idea. We have to lose talent to return talent. I think the bigger thing is how do we make Arizona into the location that people want to stay in? Remember Domi in the draft? "Arizona. Sick, man." He was GENUINELY excited to play here. That has gone in the opposite direction and I am thinking that it may be like that for many young players. Chayka has made moves to get rid of players that dont want to be here, so it is hard enough to extract value when you have a good player that wants to stay.

 

[hbk]

I love Domi. His start in Montreal has surprised me as I think top end he’s a 70 point player.

I think Chayka did fairly good in getting Galchenyuk. He’s certainly the best of the rumoured potential deals. I don’t think he’s shown his best thus far. In fact I would say this is as bad as I’ve ever seen him and I watched his 5 total games he played his draft year.

No so called experts had AZ losing the trade after it was completed. I think there’s some Monday morning quarterbacking going on for the most part. The tune will change as Galchenyuk finds his niche in this offense.

 

[Jakey53]

We hired them so we should give them time to see this rebuild through. That was my thought last year, because the last year of Tip we were leading in the right direction and with the added talent that we added thru trades I figured we would be ahead of where we are now. Most of the trades Chayka made were applauded by most on HF boards, but the results have not translated to the ice. Having said that, the organization won't fire Chayka or RT at this time, mostly because of money. The team we have should be doing better than what it is, but the PP is killing us and I think RT is slow in adjusting during the game, be like he said, someone has to made a play. We as fans let our emotions affect our thinking. Even if we had the money I think we have to let this play out this year and then sit back and evaluate then.

 

[Jakey53]

Dont necessarily think he should have been hired in the first place.

It is the consistency aspect for us. Two weeks ago, we were riding a 5 game win streak, where I (and others) thought that it would be extremely unlikely to not make the playoffs.

Now, we are back in that same boat of not really knowing what we have to work with and what we are doing to move the needle in the proper direction. Coaching is a chess match/poker game in some ways - all about finding openings and understanding where weaknesses and strengths lie and how to exploit that. Some of our issue is that we have to rely on young players with some major talent who are still putting it together, and veterans who have some talent, but are still relatively average in that regard (compare our roster of players with more than 300 games of NHL experience to other team's rosters with the same games played metric, and we will see a glaring difference in talent). Its the same thing that had been said with the previous coach - we are doing the best we can with a depleted level of talent. Now that more talent is here, it is a matter of getting them to play to that level consistently. We need a "star" player in the worst way. Strome wasn't it. Keller may be on his way there.

No issues with what Chayka is doing. It's the whole "you have to spend money to make money" idea. We have to lose talent to return talent. I think the bigger thing is how do we make Arizona into the location that people want to stay in? Remember Domi in the draft? "Arizona. Sick, man." He was GENUINELY excited to play here. That has gone in the opposite direction and I am thinking that it may be like that for many young players. Chayka has made moves to get rid of players that dont want to be here, so it is hard enough to extract value when you have a good player that wants to stay.

In general, players want to play here. This whole Domi think is being blown out of proportion. Like Stepan said, the desert really grows on you and its a great place to play hockey.

 

[Jamieh]

Players want to play here. This whole Domi think is being blown out of proportion.

Players want to play in the NHL, doing that in AZ wouldn't be in the top half of the choices. It's just silly to think otherwise. They like to win and have a great atmosphere to play in more than they like wearing shorts.

 

[Llewzaher]

The hard work angle is a nice way of saying the Coyotes are far less talented than the teams they're playing. It'd be really nice if one day other teams had to out work the Coyotes to have any shot in hell at winning the game.

I would say up until 3 weeks ago , that was the issue ..teams that didnt match our speed lost.

I agree with the talent comment , but until Bill Gates buys this team , we are going to have to rely on hard work.

I would rather this team played like we did at the start of the year and lost than win like we play now. ..... Horrible to watch

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

One turning point to me was the Carolina game. The Yotes didn't do very well in that game and managed to eek out a win. Felt like since that game they have had bad habits.

The shorthanded goals have really masked the problem with this team when they were happening. 5v5 scoring is horrendous. If this team wants to have any sort of chance, they have to get more produced. Lord knows it's not going to get help from the PP as long as MacLean is here.

 

[Grimes]

I love Domi. His start in Montreal has surprised me as I think top end he’s a 70 point player.

I think Chayka did fairly good in getting Galchenyuk. He’s certainly the best of the rumoured potential deals. I don’t think he’s shown his best thus far. In fact I would say this is as bad as I’ve ever seen him and I watched his 5 total games he played his draft year.

No so called experts had AZ losing the trade after it was completed. I think there’s some Monday morning quarterbacking going on for the most part. The tune will change as Galchenyuk finds his niche in this offense.

I have to agree with this. Right now we are getting our faces rubbed in the dirt, but none of our top end forwards are producing. I feel like Keller is having a case of the Sophomores which is affecting guys like Stepan and trickling down, Panik's true colors are showing creating line up issues and Galchenyuk either hasnt figured out the system or is still finding chemistry. I wouldnt be surprised if Gally hits 20 goals still. Same with Keller. I imagine the offense starts clicking in January (when it's too late) and we finish around the dreaded 12th spot. That's still an improvement over last season, and that is what we are looking for. The beginning of the season shows what the team can do. Right now we are seeing what injuries and fatigue can do to a young team. I'm also not convinced Tocchet knows how to make adjustments to support a slumping team.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I have to agree with this. Right now we are getting our faces rubbed in the dirt, but none of our top end forwards are producing. I feel like Keller is having a case of the Sophomores which is affecting guys like Stepan and trickling down, Panik's true colors are showing creating line up issues and Galchenyuk either hasnt figured out the system or is still finding chemistry. I wouldnt be surprised if Gally hits 20 goals still. Same with Keller. I imagine the offense starts clicking in January (when it's too late) and we finish around the dreaded 12th spot. That's still an improvement over last season, and that is what we are looking for. The beginning of the season shows what the team can do. Right now we are seeing what injuries and fatigue can do to a young team. I'm also not convinced Tocchet knows how to make adjustments to support a slumping team.

This x 1000000
Adjustments, this team doesn't need any stinking adjustments
per quote "our 5on5 is fine". Just had to laugh again at that comment.

 

[Name Nameless]

Being a Norwegian, I'm probably used to think of things like this differently...

We don't fire people as easily here. We tell them to change instead.

And he needs to change something. Like, telling the guy who runs the power-play to run it entirely different, and tell himself that 5 on 5 play is not good.

The win in the last game looked incredible flukey. Unless his influence was super magical, I want to say he can't hope for wins like that.

 

[Jakey53]

This x 1000000
Adjustments, this team doesn't need any stinking adjustments
per quote "our 5on5 is fine". Just had to laugh again at that comment.

We are right in the middle of the pack on 5v5 position. The problem is, like RT said, we need someone to make a play. We have possession but we shot into the goalies chest, we make one to many passes, or shoot wide of the net etc. Just because we lose doesn't mean we are bad 5v5. The last few games our 5v5 has taken a hit, but overall I agree with RT.

 

[SniperHF]

And he needs to change something. Like, telling the guy who runs the power-play to run it entirely different, and tell himself that 5 on 5 play is not good.

I can just imagine John Chayka going over to a couple guys about twice his age "Everything you are doing is wrong" It would be like a scene from moneyball with, albeit with less credibility

The win in the last game looked incredible flukey. Unless his influence was super magical, I want to say he can't hope for wins like that.

I legitimately think they are hoping to get a few games in a row where these bounces start to go their way and it eases the pressure. Because like you said there has not really been any actual adjustment far as I can see outside of the trade.

 

[BUX7PHX]

In general, players want to play here. This whole Domi think is being blown out of proportion. Like Stepan said, the desert really grows on you and its a great place to play hockey.

I was more stating that players are interested in playing here, but then something changes in their attitude which I can't put my finger on. That was why I brought up Domi's reaction at the draft, followed by a change in that direction. Think about what happened before with other players like Stempniak and Belanger - both of them had comments to the effect of "playing in front of a half-empty arena."

A lot of it did also have to do with our financial situation and whom we could afford, but I don't always know if this is the first place on people's list, as Jamieh pointed out. Remember our play for Goligoski? he basically said that if the team hadn't traded for his rights and sold him on the organization, he probably never would have considered Arizona as an option.

 

[Name Nameless]

I think this thread aged well.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I think this thread aged well.

Nah, next 3 game losing streak it'll be back.