Do we as fans need to pump the breaks a little on judging certain players?

[Goalie guy]

I think the problem we are seeing at least here is if you say player x has not shown anything and should not be in the bigs. Gets taken as OMG he just said player x was a bust!! No that's not what was said, some people just don't want kids to get a spot just because they where a high pick. And others think they should even if they are not ready. It's ok for fans to say hes just not ready.

 

[RedMenace]

Come for the hockey, stay for the goats.

They will unite us.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I’m more concerned with the system we are running as opposed to certain guys. Way too much stretching of the ice and looking for 100 foot passes. Results in little to no puck possession or puck support when we do have possession. Not sure if others agree

I don't like it either, but I also don't find it hard to believe that it's the least worst option with the roster we currently have. And we have a good idea what the coaching staff would prefer to be running if they had the personnel, so I'm willing to presume that they or their eventual replacements will run a better system once we have a team capable of executing it successfully.

 

[HIFE]

I would think there would be more enthusiasm getting to watch the players together that people talk an awful lot about. You can't accurately talk about players you don't really see play. And it only takes a game or two to see how guys are looking. After a Buffalo game and all I could think about wasn't Dalin, it was Ristolainen.. throwing opponents to the ice and making plays everywhere. It's obvious he's advancing and could break out as a key figure these next years.

I trust when the majority think Zadina could do with some time in the A. After a full season and 1/2 most people are not in love with Jensen. The majority of Wings fans respect and wanted Mike Green on the team. Just trying to show when we do have consensus of opinion. There may be random hot takes but for me it's also enjoyable to see eye to eye on our evaluations.

Maybe a knee-jerk reaction but in two PS games I much prefer the chemistry of team B. I say it every year, we are fast. The boys look in the best shape possible. Helm and Nyquist are skating great for example. Whether you want them traded or not, their value increasing is enough to say ," Damn so-and-so looks healthy right now."

It's kind of weird. Fans theorize and construct elaborate data about prospects but then their game isn't worth paying attention to. We just faced Boqvist and not a word about his performance ( though I admit I was very focused on the Wings). Hopefully as we get an influx of newer players the energy level surrounding the team rises up.

 

[Flowah]

I don't like it either, but I also don't find it hard to believe that it's the least worst option with the roster we currently have. And we have a good idea what the coaching staff would prefer to be running if they had the personnel, so I'm willing to presume that they or their eventual replacements will run a better system once we have a team capable of executing it successfully.

I'd rather we just run the right system right now.

No reason to try and artificially increase our standings with a bad system that plays to our strengths, such as they are. Better to play the right way and ingrain in the young players the right way to play. Then when we finally integrate the personnel that we need, they don't have to relearn a system.

I'm just not sure that this is our system so much as it is certain players.

 

[Frk It]

I'd rather we just run the right system right now.

No reason to try and artificially increase our standings with a bad system that plays to our strengths, such as they are. Better to play the right way and ingrain in the young players the right way to play. Then when we finally integrate the personnel that we need, they don't have to relearn a system.

I'm just not sure that this is our system so much as it is certain players.

I would bet a good chunk of money when this team is good again it will be with a different coach and different system.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'd rather we just run the right system right now.

No reason to try and artificially increase our standings with a bad system that plays to our strengths, such as they are. Better to play the right way and ingrain in the young players the right way to play. Then when we finally integrate the personnel that we need, they don't have to relearn a system.

I'm just not sure that this is our system so much as it is certain players.

The job of a coach is to play a system that takes advantage of a team's strength and hides it's weaknesses. I'm not sure Blashill is doing a great job of that since talk is always about how he tries to run the same system he has run at every level and the same one Tampa is running. But at the same time it's hard to play a system that is perfect for players you might have 5 years from now. The way the team plays in the future will be very different depending on what players pan out, what lottery picks we get, and what future GMs/coaches want to do.

 

[Flowah]

The job of a coach is to play a system that takes advantage of a team's strength and hides it's weaknesses.

The job of the coach is the play the team the way the GM wants it played.

If we're really (and again I dispute this) playing a system that just tries for long bombs, intentionally, that is a system that goes nowhere but does offer our speedsters a chance to score some goals and win some games. But it's not a system that wins cups. And I would rather not instill that kind of system in our kids. I would rather they learn to play the right way.

Because the difference in standings between a system that hides our weaknesses and doesn't hide our weaknesses is minimal. We lack the personnel to even make the playoffs with any system. Better to learn the right way.

I would bet a good chunk of money when this team is good again it will be with a different coach and different system.

Blashill died for this.

So did Todd Nelson I guess.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The job of the coach is the play the team the way the GM wants it played.

If we're really (and again I dispute this) playing a system that just tries for long bombs, intentionally, that is a system that goes nowhere but does offer our speedsters a chance to score some goals and win some games. But it's not a system that wins cups. And I would rather not instill that kind of system in our kids. I would rather they learn to play the right way.

Because the difference in standings between a system that hides our weaknesses and doesn't hide our weaknesses is minimal. We lack the personnel to even make the playoffs with any system. Better to learn the right way.

But what is playing the right way? Like I said Blashill is supposedly trying to run the same system that Tampa is, wouldn't that mean with more skill we could potentially be as good as Tampa?
Problem is if you don't have the players to properly execute a system, it won't look like what you want it to look like. There's no way to run a high-skill, high-tempo, puck-possession system without high-skill, high-tempo, puck-possession players.

 

[Flowah]

Like I said Blashill is supposedly trying to run the same system that Tampa is, wouldn't that mean with more skill we could potentially be as good as Tampa?

Our system doesn't look much like Tampa's when I watch both teams.

Again, I think this is a hypothetical argument because I don't see much of a "system" at all. I see a few players, the first that comes to mind is AA, constantly trying to fly the zone. Has he been instructed to do that? Is that the "system?" Then it sucks. I tend to think it's just the player and that's also why he gets sat so much.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Our system doesn't look much like Tampa's when I watch both teams.

Again, I think this is a hypothetical argument because I don't see much of a "system" at all. I see a few players, the first that comes to mind is AA, constantly trying to fly the zone. Has he been instructed to do that? Is that the "system?" Then it sucks. I tend to think it's just the player and that's also why he gets sat so much.

Blashill and Cooper are best friends and both openly admit they play the same system that they developed together in minor hockey. They have slight tweaks but it is the same system, but I guess that is just taking their words for it.

Talent matters, we are not able to play as fast as what Blashill's system needs. I think that is why he has leaned more to the elements he took from Babcock to include in it. But really for me this is a personnel things. I have seen it work in Tampa and at every other level, we are not executing it, primarily because of our back-end.

 

[newfy]

Our system doesn't look much like Tampa's when I watch both teams.

Again, I think this is a hypothetical argument because I don't see much of a "system" at all. I see a few players, the first that comes to mind is AA, constantly trying to fly the zone. Has he been instructed to do that? Is that the "system?" Then it sucks. I tend to think it's just the player and that's also why he gets sat so much.

I bet if Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Sergachev and others were running the system it would look more like Tampas.

It was a good system to watch when he actually had talent on his team in Grand Rapids. High offense, quick transitions etc. But you cant count on Detroits defense to play like that

 

[Invictus12]

I'd rather we just run the right system right now.

No reason to try and artificially increase our standings with a bad system that plays to our strengths, such as they are. Better to play the right way and ingrain in the young players the right way to play. Then when we finally integrate the personnel that we need, they don't have to relearn a system.

I'm just not sure that this is our system so much as it is certain players.

A coaches job is to win games and do best with what he has. He has his own reputation on the line and to ask him to lose games is quite frankly unreasonable. Unless ofcourse you, yourself prepared to take paycut from your own pocket.

 

[Dotter]

My issue is posters say "waive/trade player x, y and z" just so they can see kids play ASAP. When x, y and z player might return a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder when waiting til trade value when value has increased at deadline. Opposed to "just waiving" for roster space now. Makes no sense.

Only kids that look like they could start the season, to me, is Cholo, RAS and maybe Sulak... but Sulak's upside is probably slightly above Jensen. He's already what, 23 or 24? He should be a standout but have lower upside.

Zadina needs to play the entire season in the AHL. Give him lots of pre-season minutes to learn what he needs to work on and give him the temperament and understanding that NHL is hard, very hard.

RAS will have lots of game winners. He might be the reason Wings don't pick #1--#4, rather #6--#9 instead. I'm good with that.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Our system doesn't look much like Tampa's when I watch both teams.

Again, I think this is a hypothetical argument because I don't see much of a "system" at all. I see a few players, the first that comes to mind is AA, constantly trying to fly the zone. Has he been instructed to do that? Is that the "system?" Then it sucks. I tend to think it's just the player and that's also why he gets sat so much.

That's what happens when we don't have the ability to enforce our system as much as we are forced to adapt and respond to what the other team is doing. Any game, on a strategical level, is about trying to play your game and stop the other team from playing their game. That battle is one we are losing most of the time, and it's one we'll lose most of the time almost regardless of what system we try to play.

 

[Sadekuuro]

I'd rather we just run the right system right now.

No reason to try and artificially increase our standings with a bad system that plays to our strengths, such as they are. Better to play the right way and ingrain in the young players the right way to play. Then when we finally integrate the personnel that we need, they don't have to relearn a system.

I'm just not sure that this is our system so much as it is certain players.

I hear you, but the results might even be worse that way. Without the long passes and hard zone clears, our defensemen are frequently pinned in their own zone, unable to get the puck up the ice, murdered by the forecheck and forced into turnovers. Until we have D that can consistently make those short passes and move the puck out of the zone effectively, it gets ugly quickly. Is that how to properly develop defensemen? (I don't know, but it doesn't seem great to me.) The stretch passes at least back the forecheckers off a bit. I also get the impression that Blashill has tried to move back in the possession direction at various times but been burned and decided to retreat; whether this was in an effort to win more meaningless games or in the best interests of their development and self-preservation (or both), I couldn't say.

 

[Flowah]

A coaches job is to win games and do best with what he has. He has his own reputation on the line and to ask him to lose games is quite frankly unreasonable. Unless ofcourse you, yourself prepared to take paycut from your own pocket.

You're right.

But it's a GM's job to do what's best for the team. What's best for the team is not to use a system that cheats but to play the right way right now. Artificially inflating your standings by 7 points and still missing the playoffs while instilling bad habits with a bad system is good for who exactly?

I bet if Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman, Sergachev and others were running the system it would look more like Tampas.

It was a good system to watch when he actually had talent on his team in Grand Rapids. High offense, quick transitions etc. But you cant count on Detroits defense to play like that

I've said the same thing multiple times when people were blasting Blashill over Ken Holland's roster.

That's not really my point here though. I'll say it again. I was arguing from the perspective that the people saying stretch passes and long bombs were our system. I don't think it is. I've said this twice now. Those are not, to me, a possession system.

 

[Invictus12]

You're right.

But it's a GM's job to do what's best for the team. What's best for the team is not to use a system that cheats but to play the right way right now. Artificially inflating your standings by 7 points and still missing the playoffs while instilling bad habits with a bad system is good for who exactly?

I've said the same thing multiple times when people were blasting Blashill over Ken Holland's roster.

That's not really my point here though. I'll say it again. I was arguing from the perspective that the people saying stretch passes and long bombs were our system. I don't think it is. I've said this twice now. Those are not, to me, a possession system.

Gm's job, among other things, is to get the best roster possible. He makes trades, moves players in and out... Coaches job is to coach and the choice of system is under his belt, not the GMs. The only choice that the GM has in that regard is the coach he hires. Otherwise, he'd quite literally be impeding on someone else to be able to do their job.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Based on 4 preseason games:

DRW (Oct. '18):

Ras
Svech
Sulak
*Hicketts (as 7th Dman/rotates w/injured veteran)...til Green comes back

GR:
Cholo...called up permanently on/before TDL '19
Hronek...called up permanently on/beforeTDL '19


DRW (no later than March 2019):

Bert-Larkin-Mantha
Ras-Nielsen-Zadina (if Nyquist is traded)
Svech-AA-Vanek
Helm-Turgeon-Abby

DDK-Green
Sulak-Hronek
Cholo-Big E
Kronner/Hicketts

2019-20
Veleno
Saarijarvi

20-21
Berggren
Lindstrom
McIssac
Kotkinsalo?

 

[jkutswings]

I get we as fans get excited, but I think too many people make up their minds on certain players way too early. What say you?

Nope. Apparently a few preseason games is a logical sample size to dub Andreas Athanasiou as the next Connor McDavid.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Nope. Apparently a few preseason games is a logical sample size to dub Andreas Athanasiou as the next Connor McDavid.

I haven't been able to watch much of the pre season games, has he been doing well?
Edit: nm, just saw the thread lol