There is absolutely no way, at all, that the Quebec government will ever give tax breaks to millionaire athletes. No way. None.
As one of the most social democratic states in North America this just wouldn't happen.
Nope.
Do UFAs avoid Montréal? If so, why?
- Thread starter JLP
- Start date
There is absolutely no way, at all, that the Quebec government will ever give tax breaks to millionaire athletes. No way. None.
As one of the most social democratic states in North America this just wouldn't happen.
Nope.
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
mitchmagic
Registered User
Tabarouette
ben kin
HabsByTheBay
Registered User
By percentage:
1. 60%. We're basically a 90-point team most years since 1993. That's the biggest thing. Pressure, taxes, and so on. All that stuff was true in the 80s but players wanted to play for the Habs because they thought we had a chance at a Cup. That is not really true anymore.
2. 10%. It might push some guys away but I'm not sure they're guys we want anyway. Guys who want to just collect a paycheck and screw around don't help teams win.
3. 0%. The Habs surely make it clear you can send your kids to private English school in Quebec. If you said if the players are worried they have to go to French school I might say 5%.
4. 10%. It doesn't help but we need to remember that the Bush tax cuts expired, the top rate of income tax in the US is now 39.6% not 35%. Most states add on income tax and some cities add on income taxes on top of that. Massachusetts has a 5.25% income tax rate. New York state has an 8.82% tax rate and NYC has taxes on top of that. Montreal has the highest tax burden in the league, but it's not out of this world high compared to many East Coast and California teams.
5. 5%. No doubt some guys want to stick around warmer cities in the winter but we're talking 95% of the playing base, if not more, coming from freezing parts of Canada, America and Europe. They're used to it.
So that's 85% and I would add #6:
6. 15%. Perception Montreal is not a family city. What I mean by this is that I am not sure the wives are keen on their husbands going to a party town with lots of girls, lots of strip clubs and nightclubs. MTL's one of the world's great party towns and all athletes love hot girls....IMO a big part of the reason Shane Doan stays in Phoenix is the wife wants him somewhere nice and boring. Wives have a much bigger say in where guys go than we think. To tie this back to #3, back in the 80s a big reason the Expos and Nordiques had such trouble attracting players was that the wives didn't want to live in Quebec. Didn't know any French, had nothing to do because they didn't know any French.
dmanfish90
How about 76 for 25?
What would need to happen is that the NHL would adjust cap space for individual teams to that it's the same amount after taxes. Problem with this all the american teams will be against this idea since it gives them an edge. Would be the fair way to go though.
Maybe, just maybe, the Canadiens avoid UFAs!
It's not like baseball or basketball, sports for which the UFA hits the market in his prime. UFA players in hockey tend not to be available at that time b/c of the different draft system, entry level contracts, and RFA contracts and other issued imposed by the very different CBA.
When was the last time you saw a player comparable to Albert Pujols or Prince Fielder hit the UFA market in hockey? Doesn't happen in hockey--it just doesn't happen.
Finally, why would you even want to go for a guy who moans about pressure? I say this at least once a year, but I don't ever recall Derek Jeter moaning about the pressure of being captain of the Yankees. I don't think Kobe Bryant whines about the pressure of carrying the Lakers' tradition. I know for sure that Shaq bailed and that A-Rod whines about it. I don't think Aaron Rodgers complains about the pressure of being QB of the Green Bay Packers--in a city with one team and only 150,000 people. Donovan McNabb took more heat in Philly than these "pressure cooker" whiners could ever imagine. The Boston Globe still has a sports page the size the entire Ottawa Citizen. Get over yourselves! As well, stop defending these criers, who all also happen to be Don Cherry's favourites, and their (often imagined) fear of Mtl!
Plante
Devils Advocate
Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
It's as if the last part of my sentence never existed.
Typical knee jerk reaction... see "player tax break" !!! OMG, I should react without reading the rest of the sentence!!
It's not a tax break if the team gets taxed accordingly to compensate, but nooooooo, let's not take that into account, let's just react to "player tax break" alone and try to feel smart by stating something obvious if taken alone
Same goes for you ZARTONK, a real genius in your own regard.
JLP
Refugee
- Aug 16, 2005
- 10,706
- 576
I like the ideas about the league pro-rating the cap to tax status. Note that aside from the players' higher income taxes, apparently the Montreal Canadiens' own municipal tax bill already exceeds the municipal tax bills of all US NHL franchises combined.
And yet, with the "revenue-sharing" (which increased under the new CBA), teams like the Habs, leafs and Rangers are basically underwriting the entire NHL. We're the unappreciated cash cows, and we don't get a break.
Anyway I wanted to make a new list of "Reasons why UFA would want to come to Montreal," considerations that might actually work in the Habs' favour on the UFA market:
1. Beautiful cosmopolitan city
2. Play for the team with the NHL's most glorious history
3. Full arena, passionate fans
But I wonder whether, as some have suggested, these considerations are not as important as money for many if not most players these days.
And yet, with the "revenue-sharing" (which increased under the new CBA), teams like the Habs, leafs and Rangers are basically underwriting the entire NHL. We're the unappreciated cash cows, and we don't get a break.
Anyway I wanted to make a new list of "Reasons why UFA would want to come to Montreal," considerations that might actually work in the Habs' favour on the UFA market:
1. Beautiful cosmopolitan city
2. Play for the team with the NHL's most glorious history
3. Full arena, passionate fans
But I wonder whether, as some have suggested, these considerations are not as important as money for many if not most players these days.
You are continuing with the excuse. Because that is all it is. An excuse.
If your excuse were valid, why isnt Columbus Ohio the hotbed destination for all of the NHL star players to flock to. No pressure. No being bothered away from the arena. No "fans" to worry about. A passive media.
The reason that they are not is because your excuse is nothing more than that, an excuse without validity.
Talented players, regardless of sport, want to be associated with a team for one reason. To win. And hopefully win a championship.
Location is irrelevant to most. Fans are completely the most irrelevant piece in this issue. Sorry to burst some bubbles but professional players do not give a damn about the fan who might cheer or might boo or might buy a jersey with the player's name on it.
Its about money and its about having the best opportunity to win a championship.
The Canadiens have had horrible management for two decades......
Rejean Houle, Andre Savard, Bob Gainey, Pierre Gauthier.
And now we have Bergevin. Bergevin has to show to the athletes........not the fans.........that he is serious about building a competitive team in Montreal. A well balanced team of skill and toughness. Then, and only then, will the elite players start looking at Montreal as a place that they want to play.
Until then..............
Wow... OK....
You're right, I hadn't read the post completely, but now that I did, I have to say, it's not better....
Sure, your method will help with the problem at hand, however, the financial burden that the Montreal Canadiens would have to support makes this whole idea obsolete...
You want them to compensate and pay the taxes the players would have paid, so let's look at the approximate amount paid last year, including bonuses and all, $62,200,199, you have, at 23% of taxation about 15M$ to be paid to the provincial government...
Which is about a third of the operating income for the Montreal Canadiens....
There is no way Molson will ask for this, and even if he did, there would be no way he could support such a loss to his income....
WestIslander
Registered User
This is an old topic!
1) Taxes
2) French
3) Language laws
4) Politics
5) Winter
6) Women (wives do not like it)
7) Nightlife (wives do not like it)
8) Media
9) Fans
10) Never a cup contender
1) Taxes
2) French
3) Language laws
4) Politics
5) Winter
6) Women (wives do not like it)
7) Nightlife (wives do not like it)
8) Media
9) Fans
10) Never a cup contender
Sterling Archer
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2006
- 22,969
- 13,443
If any one has spent any time out of Montreal you would see that cities like Miami, New York, LA, Dallas, San Jose, Toronto etc have a lot to offer. Lower taxes, English language schools, better weather, better quality of living, less media scrutiny, "normal" politics etc etc etc
Not to say Montreal isn't a great city, just that some other cities offer more in terms of quality of life than Montreal does. I think if a player wants to come here, they must really want to play for us because Montreal can't compete with most of the other X factors that drive players to other markets.
Lets be honest, who wouldn't want to play in Florida, Texas (both tax free), Cali, etc etc. I'm from Montreal born and bred and I love my Habs but I totally get why players would chose other markets.
Montreal has its mystique but that only gets you so far. Like anything else, winnings probably the biggest component. If you're a consistent winner, you can attract more players but even that isn't a guaranteed. Detroits not having the same success in acquiring ufa's as they used to and it's a **** hole of a city. Same for Buffalo.
Overall I know we like to think we're special but this is a different era. We haven't won **** in 20 years and its more a business than anything. Lastly, if all things are equal, you go where the money is, period.
Not to say Montreal isn't a great city, just that some other cities offer more in terms of quality of life than Montreal does. I think if a player wants to come here, they must really want to play for us because Montreal can't compete with most of the other X factors that drive players to other markets.
Lets be honest, who wouldn't want to play in Florida, Texas (both tax free), Cali, etc etc. I'm from Montreal born and bred and I love my Habs but I totally get why players would chose other markets.
Montreal has its mystique but that only gets you so far. Like anything else, winnings probably the biggest component. If you're a consistent winner, you can attract more players but even that isn't a guaranteed. Detroits not having the same success in acquiring ufa's as they used to and it's a **** hole of a city. Same for Buffalo.
Overall I know we like to think we're special but this is a different era. We haven't won **** in 20 years and its more a business than anything. Lastly, if all things are equal, you go where the money is, period.
Grate n Colorful Oz
Hutson Hawk
Then a partial tax cut, compensate equally... it's a way to go 'over' the cap and be more competitive on the free market. Pretty sure Molson would go over the cap if he could. Now the problem is with current contracts, so it would take a few years before all contracts can be accorded. Gives more incentive to the player to perform here as they would get less elsewhere if traded, players we already have could be easier to sign at a discount, and players wanting to come here would get more at equal salary than elsewhere. There's definitely a transition period where Molson would spend a little bit more, but in the long run, this could become an advantage.
Operating income for the Habs is close to 100 mil. There are other things to pay than players. So about 15%.
