Do they make the starting 2019-20 Detroit Red Wings?

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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2018-19 D-zone start % (only looking at offensive vs defensive, ignores neutral zone)

Sulak - 63.3
Ericsson - 58.7
de Keyser - 57.6
Hickets - 56.7
Jensen - 55.2
McIlrath - 55.0
Chelious - 53.6
Daley - 53.2
Hronek - 53.1
Bowey - 51.1
Green - 49.3
Kronwall - 46.8
Witkowski - 43.3
Lashoff - 42.1
Cholowski - 39.0
While it's an important metric, the vast majority of changes (starts) happen on the fly (in the neutral zone). I'd like to see Hronek get more Ozone starts, but being stapled to DDK as a partner, that's our best pair. Nemeth-Green is TBD but would be probably be a close 2nd. IIRC, I read recently that on the fly/neutral zone starts are about 80-90% of total starts.
 
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NickH8

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While it's an important metric, the vast majority of changes (starts) happen on the fly (in the neutral zone). I'd like to see Hronek get more Ozone starts, but being stapled to DDK as a partner, that's our best pair. Nemeth-Green is TBD but would be probably be a close 2nd. IIRC, I read recently that on the fly/neutral zone starts are about 80-90% of total starts.
There's really no reason to put stock in zine starts for this reason.
 

Mlotek

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There's really no reason to put stock in zine starts for this reason.
It is somewhat important if you put faith in advanced stats like CORSI/Fenwick.

A high offensive zone start is an easy way to inflate shots/shot attempts and thereby corsi/fenwick.

It can also show trends into how players are being used.

For example, 60+ % offensive start = being sheltered by the coach.
See Vanek for his entire career

Another example 30% offensive zone start = being used almost exclusively as shutdown
Sheahan last season was a perfect example. Had a 23% offensive zone start with Pittsburgh.
 

MBH

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If we have guys better than them, yeah, it would be unfair. But I'm not sure we can honestly say we do. If we keep Cholo up, maybe the pairings could be switched around. Something like:

Cholo-Green
Dekeyser-Hronek
Nemeth-Daley

Cholo-Green could tilt towards more ozone draws, Nemeth-Daley could handle the dzone, while Dekeyser-Hronek could just take wherever since they're the closest thing we have to a pairing with that sort of versatility.

That gives up on Bowey, though. And I don't think I'd do that.
I'd like to give Bowey 40 games to prove it.
Work Cholo in at game 40.
And then Seider next year.
 

Winger98

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That gives up on Bowey, though. And I don't think I'd do that.
I'd like to give Bowey 40 games to prove it.
Work Cholo in at game 40.
And then Seider next year.

Heh, forgot Bowey even existed. With how Daley has played, and if we're keeping Cholo, it might be just as effective to have Nemeth-Bowey. Or with how Nemeth looked tonight, Daley-Bowey.

If we have a kid who is just plain better than the alternatives, I have a hard time arguing for going with the alternatives. And I think Cholowski has looked better than Daley and Ericsson. Probably Nemeth. Probably Bowey. Cholo is probably more likely to do something stupid and inexperienced than one of the older guys, but he'll counter balance that by being better the rest of the time. It might not be the ideal way of breaking guys in, but maybe we go with more vets up front to balance it out to start the year.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Notes: Red Wings getting ready to finalize fluid 23-man roster

A few snippets:

"It's fluid. A roster set means that's the decision you're making on that day, but it's fluid as we go through the course of the year," Blashill said.

"Once we know where we're at health-wise, we'll make our decisions and we'll make them with two things in mind, what's going to give our guys the best chance to win hockey games in Detroit and also what's best for each young player's individual development."

"We'll just keep evaluating and watching. We got a game tonight and tomorrow and then make some decisions for Monday but as I said last night, it's a relentless league, so whether you're on the team or not on the team on Monday doesn't mean you're on the team on Friday, Saturday or the next week. That's just the reality of it."

"Dennis Cholowski is a puck-mover, he's a power-play guy who we want to see be our fifth penalty killer. We want to see a guy who defends, who recognizes danger, doesn't give up chances. I think he's done a way better job of that so far. He's trying to fill that type of role.

"A guy like Madison Bowey is trying to fill that … if Dennis is in that spot, who is his partner? A guy like Madison Bowey wants to make a statement that he can be that good defender, one of the top-four penalty killers, hard to play against, that kind of role.

You got to have enough guys that are good penalty killers, otherwise you have no chance of having a good penalty kill, so that's one thing we have to look at, and potentially we could use three defensemen on the power play, especially if it was a Cholowski, (Mike) Green and (Filip) Hronek. "


Injury update:
" all the wounded should be able to play once the season begins on Oct. 5 in Nashville........
"AA (Andreas Athanasiou) is dealing with a little bit of a tweak. I don't know if he'll play tomorrow, I'm hoping he will. He'll go out a little bit for practice today and then he'll come off, he's not going to spend the whole time out there," Blashill said. "(Jacob) de La Rose (lower-body) is going to go out and test it, see where he's at. I don't think he'll be ready for tomorrow. I don't think it's anything long-term.

"(Jonathan) Ericsson (soft tissue) is the only one come Monday I'd be worried about whether he's ready to go, (Frans) Nielsen (soft tissue), I'm hoping he can play tomorrow, we'll see after practice. Abby (Justin Abdelkader) should be fine We pushed to get Abby in three (games) but it just couldn't work with the injury."
Blashill did say he expects Abdelkader to be Saturday's lineup in Toronto.

Blash also praises Veleno, makes it sound like there's a chance he will make the opening night roster (rolls eyes).


 

NickH8

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Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Athanasiou - Filppula - Hirose
Erne - Nielsen - Rasmussen
Helm - Glendening - Abdelkader
De La Rose - Ehn

DeKeyser - Hronek
Nemeth - Green
Daley - Bowey
Cholowski

Ehn gets sent down as soon as Ericsson is back, we run 8 defensemen.
 

Jon Cusack

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I think Svechnikov needs to be on the roster. Lasts year of waiver eligibility and soon to be 23, we need to see what he can do at the NHL level. Let Rasmussen learn centre in GR.
 

deca guard

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cholski is a dangerous offensive weapon and can haul the mail . this guy with experience is going to be a weapon . to me he's top 7 in organization already but ide start him in gr with sides to give him more development time before he deals with the best on earth . plus time for our future 1st pairing to develop chemistry . CHOLSKI-SEIDER
 

Gniwder

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Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Athanasiou - Filppula - Hirose
Erne - Nielsen - Rasmussen
Helm - Glendening - Abdelkader
De La Rose - Ehn

DeKeyser - Hronek
Nemeth - Green
Daley - Bowey
Cholowski

Ehn gets sent down as soon as Ericsson is back, we run 8 defensemen.
Either Cholo plays or gets sent down to GR. There's no point in having him sit in the press box.
 

MBH

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So...
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
AA-Flip-Hirose
Erne-Nielsen-Ehn?
Abdelkader-Glendening-Helm
(De la Rose)

Dekeyser-Hronek
Nemeth-Green
Cholowski-Daley
(Ericsson, Bowey)

Howard/Bernier

Thoughts -
Line 1 is fine if Larkin's not hurt.
Line 2 is fine when AA is doing his thing. But its soft. Will have trouble on the wall, won't cycle and might have dzone troubles. And AA has very little help generating offense.
Line 3? I admittedly don't know a lot about Erne. But what I saw of him on preseason, I really didn't see much skill. And I think the speed has been overplayed.
Line 4- Fine, as long as Blashill can resist the temptation to make it Line 2.

Pairing 1- Dekeyser will have a lot of babysitting to do as Hronek learns the trade.
Pairing 2 - Should be a third pairing.
Pairing 3 - Cholo learns with either Daley or Hronek, or Cholo goes back to GR if the defense doesn't improve.

Goalies? Meh. Whatever.

In the summation, we have 4 players who belong in the top six. Maybe even in the top 9, depending on where Flip/Nielsen are.
That's brutal. It would be nice if Zadina and Rasmussen and Svechnikov were further along. I'd like to see Svech in that Hirose slot, myself.

Defensively, things are real bad.
Cholo/Hronek and Bowey are still learning.
Nemeth is a borderline NHLer. Green should be a third pairing PP specialist. Daley and Ericsson are toast.

This team could easily go toe-to-toe with Ottawa when all is said and done.
 
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BinCookin

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Which of these players makes the 2019-20 Detroit Red Wings?
  • Hirose - YES
  • Rasmussen
  • Svechnikov
  • Veleno
  • Zadina
  • G. Smith
  • Turgeon
  • Kuffner
  • Ehn - YES
  • De la Rose - YES
  • Hronek
  • Seider
  • Kaski
  • Cholowski - YES (For now, E is injured)...
  • Hicketts
  • Lindstrom
  • Saarijarvi
  • Larsson

Everyone else is in GR.

I like it. I always thought (before preseason started) that the best thing for all these guys is to play with each other in GR getting prime time minutes. I hope they all spend all season down there, and develop some chemistry and get the chance to improve.

Much rather have these guys getting 17-20 minutes a night, as opposed to 4th line duties in the NHL.
 

NickH8

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So...
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha
AA-Flip-Hirose
Erne-Nielsen-Ehn?
Abdelkader-Glendening-Helm
(De la Rose)

Dekeyser-Hronek
Nemeth-Green
Cholowski-Daley
(Ericsson, Bowey)

Howard/Bernier

Thoughts -
Line 1 is fine if Larkin's not hurt.
Line 2 is fine when AA is doing his thing. But its soft. Will have trouble on the wall, won't cycle and might have dzone troubles. And AA has very little help generating offense.
Line 3? I admittedly don't know a lot about Erne. But what I saw of him on preseason, I really didn't see much skill. And I think the speed has been overplayed.
Line 4- Fine, as long as Blashill can resist the temptation to make it Line 2.

Pairing 1- Dekeyser will have a lot of babysitting to do as Hronek learns the trade.
Pairing 2 - Should be a third pairing.
Pairing 3 - Cholo learns with either Daley or Hronek, or Cholo goes back to GR if the defense doesn't improve.

Goalies? Meh. Whatever.

In the summation, we have 4 players who belong in the top six. Maybe even in the top 9, depending on where Flip/Nielsen are.
That's brutal. It would be nice if Zadina and Rasmussen and Svechnikov were further along. I'd like to see Svech in that Hirose slot, myself.

Defensively, things are real bad.
Cholo/Hronek and Bowey are still learning.
Nemeth is a borderline NHLer. Green should be a third pairing PP specialist. Daley and Ericsson are toast.

This team could easily go toe-to-toe with Ottawa when all is said and done.
I have a feeling we'll see Erne and Hirose swapped early in the season because line 2 has no physicality.
 
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NickH8

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Putting Hirose on a line with 2 guys that can't score will make him useless. I'd rather see AA back at center with Erne and Hirose.
I understand that but that's just what I see Blashill doing. Swapping Nielsen and Filppula won't add any physicality. Erne will, with slightly more offensive potential than Ehn.
On Hirose, I'm curious to see how much of his production is just giving the puck to Athanasiou. We always talk about how he looks smart, but I feel like to some of us that's a way of explaining how he produces while looking like nothing special. He really doesn't have any high end skills. Bertuzzi can get away with it because of his grinding, but I'm unsure of how useful of a player Hirose actually is. He could just be a really smart playmaker, or he could be the Abdelkader of assists.
 

Gniwder

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If so, Hirose needs to find a way to make himself somewhat useful
What is your expectation out of a third line that features Nielsen (10 goals) and Ehn (3 goals)? Putting a 160lb playmaking winger on that line won't help anything. I don't see it happening, so it's not worth arguing about it.

I understand that but that's just what I see Blashill doing. Swapping Nielsen and Filppula won't add any physicality. Erne will, with slightly more offensive potential than Ehn.
On Hirose, I'm curious to see how much of his production is just giving the puck to Athanasiou. We always talk about how he looks smart, but I feel like to some of us that's a way of explaining how he produces while looking like nothing special. He really doesn't have any high end skills. Bertuzzi can get away with it because of his grinding, but I'm unsure of how useful of a player Hirose actually is. He could just be a really smart playmaker, or he could be the Abdelkader of assists.
Probably something in between. He had an assist on a Glendening goal, and tried to feed Helm multiple times. Fact of the matter is that he's going to get a bunch of assists off of AA because AA scores goals. I'm curious to see how he's utilized on the PP.
 

Gniwder

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If so, Hirose needs to find a way to make himself somewhat useful
What is your expectation out of a third line that features Nielsen (10 goals) and Ehn (3 goals)? Putting a 160lb playmaking winger on that line won't help anything. I don't see it happening, so it's not worth arguing about it. If Svech gets called up, I could see a Svech-Nielsen-Hirose line happening. Ehn isn't anything more than a 4th liner.

I understand that but that's just what I see Blashill doing. Swapping Nielsen and Filppula won't add any physicality. Erne will, with slightly more offensive potential than Ehn.
On Hirose, I'm curious to see how much of his production is just giving the puck to Athanasiou. We always talk about how he looks smart, but I feel like to some of us that's a way of explaining how he produces while looking like nothing special. He really doesn't have any high end skills. Bertuzzi can get away with it because of his grinding, but I'm unsure of how useful of a player Hirose actually is. He could just be a really smart playmaker, or he could be the Abdelkader of assists.
Probably something in between. He had an assist on a Glendening goal, and tried to feed Helm multiple times. Fact of the matter is that he's going to get a bunch of assists off of AA because AA scores goals. I'm curious to see how he's utilized on the PP.
 

MBH

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What is your expectation out of a third line that features Nielsen (10 goals) and Ehn (3 goals)? Putting a 160lb playmaking winger on that line won't help anything. I don't see it happening, so it's not worth arguing about it. If Svech gets called up, I could see a Svech-Nielsen-Hirose line happening. Ehn isn't anything more than a 4th liner.

Unless Hirose turns into a powerplay guy, i think he's destined for Grand Rapids.
I would have used his spot on Svech or Ras.
 

MBH

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Putting an AA-Flip-Hirose out there is going to be f***ed.
AA should be getting 18+ minutes a night.
Blash won't trust that line anywhere near enough. Glendening's line will probably end up used as much as any line not manned by Larkin.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Putting an AA-Flip-Hirose out there is going to be ****ed.
AA should be getting 18+ minutes a night.
Blash won't trust that line anywhere near enough. Glendening's line will probably end up used as much as any line not manned by Larkin.
They can always make Erne-Nielsen-LGD our 3rd line/shutdown line 15-16 min TOI & keep Abby-Ehn-Helm as a 10min TOI grinder.
 

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